The End of this Age

[iamlamad]

14 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Where do you find this in Scripture?  And if that were true, explain this "second death" term for the LOF.  Thanks.

Recall that at physical birth, all humans are born spiritually dead, inherited from Adam's sin.  Rom 5:12

I look forward to verses that support your claim.

Just common sense. When Satan will be cast into the lake of fire, he will find the Beast and False Prophet are still there after a thousand years.

Both the righteous and unrighteous get resurrected. Why would God give the righteous a resurrection body and NOT give the unrighteous a resurrection body. 

You asked for a verse: show us then a verse that denies they get a resurrection body.

[WilliamL]

50 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Those that are caught up will be the exception...

That is just speculation on your part. As is the identity of the two witnesses. I seriously doubt that they will be Elijah and Enoch (or Moses), as many people claim. Each age has it's own witnesses.

[iamlamad]

14 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

That is just speculation on your part. As is the identity of the two witnesses. I seriously doubt that they will be Elijah and Enoch (or Moses), as many people claim. Each age has it's own witnesses.

What? Do you doubt that those who are alive and in Christ will be caught up and changed?

[WilliamL]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

Your error is trying to FORCE "firstfruits" into many "harvests", all of which is fantasy.  1 Cor 15:23 refers to ONE resurrection where ALL believers will be resurrected and Rev 20:4 confirms that FACT.

Your error is to base your whole End Time resurrection theology on your misunderstood interpretation of 1 Cor. 15:23. So you have to twist all the other End Time prophecies into that interpretation.

[WilliamL]

2 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

What? Do you doubt that those who are alive and in Christ will be caught up and changed?

Not at all.

Maybe you lost track of the specific issue we were discussing?

[The Light]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

Actually, arguing that there are saved people who "don't belong to Him" shows who isn't "getting it".

OK, this proves that you aren't reading the verse correctly.  Again, unless you can PROVE that there are saved people who AREN'T Christ's, you have no point.  So, using the Bible only, what verse makes clear that there are saved people who AREN'T Christ's.

 

Still not getting it? 

Not everyone is saved at the same time. The Church will be raptured before the final week. Then God turns His attention to Israel. Those of the 12 tribes are blinded until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.......pre 70th week rapture.

What will the Jews say when they realize they have missed the first harvest?

Jeremiah 8

20 The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.

Bottom line when Christ comes for the Church Israel is still blinded so they are not Christs when He comes. Their eyes will be opened and then Christ comes for the 144,000 first fruits and then He comes again for the harvest at the 6th seal which is the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24.

 

[Alive]

10 hours ago, choir loft said:

Please read the Bible.  When you make assertions that are NOT in agreement with God's Word you tread on very thin ice.

Humans have NO part or portion that survives physical death.

Surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; humans have no advantage over animals. Everything is meaningless. (Ecclesiastes 3:19)

While it's true that Eve & Adam were created with an immortal spirit, they LOST it.

Genesis 1:26 is often quoted saying Adam was created with the Image of God.  Unfortunately he and his wife didn't keep it long.  The Image of God, the immortal component, was LOST two chapters later when both SINNED.  The consequence of their SIN was immediate spiritual death and physical death, which took a bit longer.

Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal" (Genesis 6:3a)

To be mortal is to die - to cease to exist in time and eternity.

People, even rich ones, can fail to grasp that, like animals, they will die. (Psalm 49:30)

A great many people are confused about the Image of God.  The common misconception is that everybody has it.  The idea comes from pagan and secular wishful thinking, not God's Word.  It's not true.  Not even a little bit.  

We do not read about the Image of God again in the Bible until the New Testament when we are told what it is;

The Son is the image of the invisible God. (Colossians 1:15a)

Think JESUS = IMAGE OF GOD and you've got it.

The Bible is very explicit in saying that those who reject God's generous offer of immortal life will be left to their natural destiny.  They will die just like any sick dog or cockroach.  

Dust you are and unto dust shall you return. (Genesis 3:19)

The myth of hell is also dispensed with because it's impossible to torture a dead guy.  Nowhere does the Bible imply or state that SINNERS are granted immortality.

The soul that sins shall die. (Ezekiel 18:4)

That's it and that's all.  After SINNERS take their last breath they suffer the judgment they've wanted for years - because they have judged themselves unworthy of eternal life. (Acts 13:46)   

Christians aren't given the mandate to judge SINNERS. Why?  Because SINNERS judge themselves.  It is SINNERS who have the authority to judge themselves unto death.

As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. (Ezekiel 33:11a)

Therefore it's time for all to REPENT of our pet SINs and wickedness and LICENTIOUSNESS and seek the forgiveness only God can grant.  It's not automatic.  It's must be asked for.......

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Some folks may not agree with the conclusions of this member, but his argument is well laid out and is backed up with much scripture, thus it is worthy of consideration and study of the subject matter.

[kenny2212]

3 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

No, of course not.  When the immaterial leaves the material, the material is DEAD.

There is no use, of course, for a dead body?  Why do you ask that obvious question?

Or, why do you seem to think I believe that soulless bodies are still living?  What gave you that idea?

Because you count the body to be something important. Why would God resurrect the mortal body just to destroy it soon after?

[FreeGrace]

2 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Your error is to base your whole End Time resurrection theology on your misunderstood interpretation of 1 Cor. 15:23. So you have to twist all the other End Time prophecies into that interpretation.

Well, we're just going to have to agree to disagee.  That verse is so clear and you  still haven't proven your theory that "those who belong to Him" can't be every saved person in history.  That doesn't even make sense.

And you can't show any verse that plainly shows resurrection to be in "harvests" as you have laid out.  The "firstfruit" in 1 Cor 15:23 refers to the resurrection of Jesus, which will be followed by ALL believers, which will be "when He comes".

[FreeGrace]

2 hours ago, The Light said:

Still not getting it? 

Not everyone is saved at the same time.

Since I never said anything close to that, it seems you are "still not getting it".

2 hours ago, The Light said:

The Church will be raptured before the final week. Then God turns His attention to Israel. Those of the 12 tribes are blinded until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.......pre 70th week rapture.

Again, all believers will be resurrected "when He comes" just as the Bible says.  And that will be the Second Advent, which is confirmed in Rev 20:4-6.  And you haven't refuted.

2 hours ago, The Light said:

What will the Jews say when they realize they have missed the first harvest?

Jeremiah 8

20 The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.

Bottom line when Christ comes for the Church Israel is still blinded so they are not Christs when He comes. Their eyes will be opened and then Christ comes for the 144,000 first fruits and then He comes again for the harvest at the 6th seal which is the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24.

Uh, are you really trying to connect what the Jews said in Jer 8 is an end times thing?

Sorry, not buying.  I reject any attempt to equate "harvest" with any resurrection.

You are speculating or presuming.  I have plain and clear verses that say what I believe.  Which is WHY I believe them.