The End of this Age

[DeighAnn]

4 hours ago, The Light said:

Problem is that the 24 elders have crowns and you do not get crowns until Jesus has come. FACT.

Could you point to where this FACT comes from?  And what do the 24 elders have to do with anything?


How can the Spirit dwell inside you, then, upon the common death, be raised up, but it NOT be in glory?  


 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father." John 14:12 KJV 

"And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them." Revelation 14:13 KJV



42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

3If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

4For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

 

10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

"If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God." Colossians 3:1 KJV

HOW can one be SAVED, WASHED CLEARNRISEN WITH CHRIST and then NOT be in a glorified body? 

Where do these things come from?

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, kenny2212 said:

John 14:3 (NKJV) - And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

"I will come again and receive you to Myself" predicates on "And if I go and prepare a place for you".

Correct.  

1 hour ago, kenny2212 said:

"I will come again and receive you to Myself" wouldn't make sense without "And if I go and prepare a place for you".

Clause 2 wouldn't exist without Clause 1.

It's because He's going to prepare a place for us that's why He will come again and receive us unto Himself.

He's coming back in order to resurrect all the dead saints and "change" (1 Cor 15:52) living saints.  And to end the battle of Armageddon, and the Tribulation, and rule the nations with a rod of iron in the MK.  

But John 14:1-3 is not about any pretrib rapture.  There isn't going to be a resurrection and rapture before the Trib.  Jesus doesn't come back to earth until as King of kings, and that will be to rule the nations with a rod of iron.

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, kenny2212 said:

I'm not a pre-tribber, I'm a pre-wrather.

Can you point to the verse that shows Jesus coming and resurrecting and rapturing all believers and taking them back to heaven?  Thanks.

[The Light]

4 hours ago, kenny2212 said:

I'm not a pre-tribber, I'm a pre-wrather.

I'm also a pre wrather.........and a pre tribber. The fig tree has two harvests.

[The Light]

11 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

As I already pointed out, Jesus is the FIRST human to receive a glorified body.  That is what "firstfruits" refers to in 1 Cor 15:23, which also clearly says that all believers will be resurrected "when He comes" a reference to the Second Advent.

And as the Word stated, He is the first fruits of those who slept. 

11 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

There is NOTHING about harvests in 1 Cor 15:23 or anywhere else in the Bible related to resurrection.  There will be just one resurrection for the saved and one for the unsaved.  Totally different resurrections.  No multiple harvests for either group.

First fruits means there is a harvest simple as that.

And you keep saying there is no harvest in the Bible and Word says you are rejecting the FACTS.

Revelation 14

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

You can deny the truth all you want. That does not change the truth.

11 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Regarding "first fruits of them that slept", I'm sure you know that 1 Thess 4 says that the dead will be resurrected BEFORE the living are changed (into glorified bodies).  And Jesus precedes "them that slept".

There is no evidence of "harvests" being related to any resurrection.

Already posted the proof that this statement is in error.

11 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

I've heard some claim that there are going to be 3 separate resurrections, just as there are 3 parts to an agricultural harvest.  That isn't correct either.

I can't accept your conclusions as I have seen you deny the written Word of God countless times.

[The Light]

11 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

I already explained it and I will do so again.

Jesus hadn't died YET when He said that.  And He did come back again.  That is the resurrection.  So that part of the text has already been fulfilled.  The disciples have been dead and in heaven for 2,000 years.  They are already "in their place" in heaven.

Again, because of what Judas did, it must have shaken them up pretty bad and Jesus was assurring them that they DO have a place in heaven.  He was giving them eternal security.

I appreciate you taking the time to attempt to explain this. However, I already understood the previous incorrect interpretation. This is simple stuff here. When you deny the obvious it only proves your error.

11 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Have you ignored 1 Thess 4:17?  After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

The last sentence, in red, is equivalent to "where He goes, they may be also".  It clearly doesn't say "heaven" as you presume.

 

He brings those that were raised from the dead at the barley harvest.

1 Thes 4

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

We see them in heaven in Revelation 4 and 5. Simple.

[The Light]

11 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Speculation and presumption.  You have nothing clearly stated to support a pretrib rapture with trip to heaven.  Because there won't be one.

Well I'm sure we will find out you are wrong in short order.

11 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

There will be one resurrection of the saved, which will be "when He comes", a direct reference to the prophecy of the OT concerning His coming back as King of kings.

You have no basis for your presumption.  John was seeing things in heavens that scholars can't agree on regarding the "who".

The feasts of God say differently as does the Word.

11 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Didn't you read my response.  The "harvest of the earth" involves "sharp sickles" and a BLOOD BATH.

Uh, no.  Why do you presume that believers will be cast into the wrath of God??  That's rather odd.  The first part of Rev 14 is a look ahead to the Second Advent.  But no trip to heaven.

Hmmm. Here we see first fruits redeemed from the earth and in heaven.

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Same place the harvest will be, if you took the time to read further. 

Simply put, you are without understanding and you continually reject what is written.

11 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

You make a lot of claims but don't provide any verses that SAY what you SAY.  

Come on. I have continually posted scripture proving what I am saying. And you have continually made excuses on why you can't accept what is written.

11 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

I SAY just what the Word of God SAYS.

Please.

11 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

These are believers that have already died over the course of at least 6,000 years.

I certainly don't accept what you SAY because the Bible doesn't SAY what you SAY.
I use the Berean VERIFICATION method of Bible study.  Acts 17:11.  You have no evidence, but a lot of presumption.

It appears that you use the denial of what is written method. You see no one going to heaven and yet we clearly see in Rev 4,5,7,14,15, and 19 that you are in error.

[The Light]

9 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

As long as they are going into the WINEPRESS NO REASON TO BE TENDER, is there?


"And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs." Revelation 14:20 KJV


"And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God." Revelation 19:15 KJV

Some go to heaven and some end up in wrath. Pretty simple.

[The Light]

9 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

What makes you think I don't?  OR

is it because I don't 'understand' them as you do, in relation to the pre trib rapture theory, you make that statement? 

You also don't understand that Jesus returns at the 6th seal. There is a grain harvest and a fruit harvest. 

[The Light]

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Could you point to where this FACT comes from?  And what do the 24 elders have to do with anything?

Revelation 22

12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

8 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

How can the Spirit dwell inside you, then, upon the common death, be raised up, but it NOT be in glory?

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father." John 14:12 KJV 

"And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them." Revelation 14:13 KJV



42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

3If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

4For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

 

10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

"If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God." Colossians 3:1 KJV

HOW can one be SAVED, WASHED CLEARNRISEN WITH CHRIST and then NOT be in a glorified body? 

Where do these things come from?

Where did I post that anyone that is raised from the dead did not have a glorified body? I don't recall that.