James faith and works

[Jaydub]

7 hours ago, Dave-regenerated said:

  So what if you are living in sin despite being regenerated and your fruit is not on show - what then?

I think you need to be carful here, I don't think you can live in sin and be saved. Slipping is one thing, living in sin is another thing

I think James is saying to certain people, that you cant just say your a follower of Jesus without a change in your actions.

I believe James is speaking about fruit, are you producing fruit. A tree that bares no fruit is cut down. Show your faith by your actions/fruit. loving, caring, sharing, giving. Our fruit' our actions doesn't produce faith, but faith produces fruit. our works don't save us but, our salvation produces works of love and mercy

 

[Vine Abider]

38 minutes ago, Jaydub said:

I think you need to be carful here, I don't think you can live in sin and be saved. Slipping is one thing, living in sin is another thing

I think James is saying to certain people, that you cant just say your a follower of Jesus without a change in your actions.

I believe James is speaking about fruit, are you producing fruit. A tree that bares no fruit is cut down. Show your faith by your actions/fruit. loving, caring, sharing, giving. Our fruit' our actions doesn't produce faith, but faith produces fruit. our works don't save us but, our salvation produces works of love and mercy

 

In my own experience, I know that I know that I know I was born again, with a wonderful back & forth fellowship with the living God.  But after a time I lost my way and went into sin, for a long period, worse than before. At that time there was a nagging in me telling me I was off the mark, which was His indwelling life still in me. 

When I was living in sin was I somehow unborn and no longer a child of His?  No.  I was still a child of God, just one who lost his way and fell into sin.  There were consequences for these sins, but no condemnation (and little profit toward the kingdom).

When I turned to Him again, He let me know He was always there, and had never left.  This is the kind of love we see toward the so-called prodigal son and for the whoring wife in the book of Hosea. 

[Vine Abider]

@Wayne222 As my local fellowship started into 2nd Peter today, a passage was covered that I see also applies to this thread's topic.  In 2nd Peter 1:5-7 we are exhorted to "add diligence and supply bountifully in our faith" virtue, knowledge, self-control, endurance, godliness, brotherly love and love (which is really just a description of Christ). And these are closely parallel to the fruit of the Spirit enumerated in Galatians 5:22.  Then we see in 2 Peter 1:8 it says, "For these things existing in you and abounding, constitute you neither idle nor unfruitful . . ." 

So these attributes are in us, in the new man.  By faith we need to be diligent to let the Spirit in us "bountifully supply" us with these Christ-like attributes. By letting the Spirit operate in and through us, we will be neither "idle or unfruitful."

Therefore I see that James is in agreement with Peter and Paul on the matter that true faith will produce works accordingly.

[Wayne222]

3 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

@Wayne222 As my local fellowship started into 2nd Peter today, a passage was covered that I see also applies to this thread's topic.  In 2nd Peter 1:5-7 we are exhorted to "add diligence and supply bountifully in our faith" virtue, knowledge, self-control, endurance, godliness, brotherly love and love (which is really just a description of Christ). And these are closely parallel to the fruit of the Spirit enumerated in Galatians 5:22.  Then we see in 2 Peter 1:8 it says, "For these things existing in you and abounding, constitute you neither idle nor unfruitful . . ." 

So these attributes are in us, in the new man.  By faith we need to be diligent to let the Spirit in us "bountifully supply" us with these Christ-like attributes. By letting the Spirit operate in and through us, we will be neither "idle or unfruitful."

Therefore I see that James is in agreement with Peter and Paul on the matter that true faith will produce works accordingly.

Yes I agree. At the same time we must always point out we are already saved by grace and not works. Nothing to boast of. I like 2 peter by the way. It really shows how to be fruitful. 

[Wayne222]

2 hours ago, believeinHim said:

Saying there are no good people, who do no good works without Christ is a large, Vast, And serious accusation. You are discrediting an entire class of citizen, And many many necessary and vital professions. This is a large, And vast accusation.

There are Atheists and Agnostics who do great, and helpful work. The world would not be spinning if we did not have them. 

There are Doctors, Nurses, Psychiatrists, Scientists, People who work for the police station, Fire fighters, Police officers, Everyone and any profession you could ever think of, And even professions you might not think are helpful as a Christian,Who are not Christian, Who do very good works. This a large, Vast, and Serious Accusation. One does not need Jesus to be a good person. One need Jesus to be saved. One needs Jesus to have peace. One needs Jesus, because we need Jesus.

But, to say no one does good works without Him, Is sheer chaos and irony. Because it is not, and has never been true, And will never be true, either. If no one did good works without Jesus, Then this world would be even worse off than it already is. And that is saying a lot. There a very very very, Well meaning people in this world who are not Christians, Who do fantastic, and very good work. .This sounds ignorant of everythin the Bible teaches, and contraty to it, as well. We are to extend a helping, loving hand to those without Christ, We are not to bash them over the head and say that they are no good humans because they are not saved. This is ignorant, And completely contrary to Jesus Himself. This needs prayers, And Guidance. It needs prayers, And Guidance. Jesus tells us to forgive. This sounds like a heart hardened to forgiveness, And bent on telling people they are bad people. This needs prayers, And Guidance. 

What are you talking about ? Everyone is bad until they receive Christ. Even Jesus said if you being evil know how to give good gifts to your children. People do good things but for the wrong motives. If it's not to glorify God then it's not the right reason. Even giving food to the hungry is not a good deed if it's not from the love of God 

[com7fy8]

If you are in a building on fire. Air and water save you, yes. However, there are works involved in getting the air and water to you and getting you out of the building.

But works of local fire safety laws and works you could get yourself to do did not save you. However, works of cooperating with the firemen and works done by the firemen did help.

[Wayne222]

2 minutes ago, com7fy8 said:

If you are in a building on fire. Air and water save you, yes. However, there are works involved in getting the air and water to you and getting you out of the building.

But works of local fire safety laws and works you could get yourself to do did not save you. However, works of cooperating with the firemen and works done by the firemen did help.

What works are there to do to be saved ? If I have you a gift and handed to you. Then I said it's a free gift but what are you going to do to receive it ? You already received it so there no work involved. Same with salvation. Otherwise you could boast. 

[com7fy8]

16 minutes ago, Wayne222 said:

What works are there to do to be saved ? If I have you a gift and handed to you. Then I said it's a free gift but what are you going to do to receive it ? 

Receiving it is a work. Trusting in Jesus is also an action.

But these are not works of law or of our own righteousness.

And James in chapter two gives examples of works of love . . . not of law, not what we get ourselves to do.

"for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)

In His process of having us do His works of His love, He is working in our character to change us to become and love like Jesus so we are ready to spend eternity with Jesus.

 

[BibleStudent100]

20 hours ago, Dave-regenerated said:

So what if you are living in sin despite being regenerated and your fruit is not on show - what then?

Dave R, have you known people who say they are "born-again," yet are living in sin, such as denoted in 1 Corinthian 6:9,10?

[Dave-regenerated]

2 hours ago, BibleStudent100 said:

Dave R, have you known people who say they are "born-again," yet are living in sin, such as denoted in 1 Corinthian 6:9,10?

Yes, myself.