When will the Judgment Seat of Christ (BEMA) occur?

[Keras]

1 hour ago, chesed said:

Why do you think Mt24:31 is the Bema seat Judgment?

Matthew 24:31 ESV
And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

Sorry; typo. I meant Matthew 25:31,

However 24:31 is also obviously an earthly scene: His chosen people, gathered from the furthest bounds of the heavens. Meaning our earthly atmosphere, proved by how no-one goes to heaven, God's place. John 3:13

[Montana Marv]

11 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

You just haven't read enough Scripture.  It's all very clear.  For example,

You just need to Believe these Scriptures:  John:1 1,2,14 - In the beginning was the Word, and  the Word was with God, and the Word was God.  He was with God in the beginning.  And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us.  And Matt 24:36 - No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.  Therefore keep watch.  This is in relation to when the Bridegroom comes and retrieves His Bride away.

You claim to know when the Bridegroom will come.  May I call you God the Father then.  Don't quote misapplied Scripture to support your unsubstantiated view.  The time of the arrival of the Bridegroom is not in Scripture.  Jesus said so, and He is the Word or all Scripture.  Don't look to Scripture, when it is not there.  Jesus Christ does not know of this time, why should you know.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[chesed]

36 minutes ago, Keras said:

Sorry; typo. I meant Matthew 25:31,

However 24:31 is also obviously an earthly scene: His chosen people, gathered from the furthest bounds of the heavens. Meaning our earthly atmosphere, proved by how no-one goes to heaven, God's place. John 3:13

From my understanding, that is not the Bema either but rather the Judgment of the Nations...

Matthew 25:32 ESV
Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.

This is a Judgment of the nations in how they treated Christ's brethren (the Jews).

Christians have passed out of Judgment of that kind so it can't be the Bema Seat Judgment...

John 5:24 ESV
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

 

 

 

[FreeGrace]

12 hours ago, chesed said:

SO, IOW the Body of Christ goes through Jacob's Trouble? That which was designed to bring the Jews to repentance?

Instead of subjective questions, how about quoting verses that SAY their will be a pretrib rapture with trip to heaven?  Can you do that?

otoh, there are clear verses about WHEN the resurrection will occur, which is at the Second Advent.

1 Cor 15:23, 2 Thess 2:1, Rev 20:4-6

12 hours ago, chesed said:

Jeremiah 30:7 NKJV
Alas! For that day is great, So that none is like it; And it is the time of Jacob's trouble, But he shall be saved out of it.

The whole world will be under God's wrath.  Not just Israel.

Now, please find any verse that clearly describes Jesus taking resurrected believers to heaven.

[FreeGrace]

11 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

You just need to Believe these Scriptures:  John:1 1,2,14 - In the beginning was the Word, and  the Word was with God, and the Word was God.  He was with God in the beginning.  And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us.  And Matt 24:36 - No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.  Therefore keep watch.  This is in relation to when the Bridegroom comes and retrieves His Bride away.

These verses have NOTHING to do with the theory about a pretrib rapture with trip to heaven.  The words "that day" is a clear reference to the Second Advent, which will be THE most significant event in human history.

There are no verses about Jesus whisking His Bride away from earth.  Study 1 Cor 15:23.  It says plainly that "when He comes" which is clearly the Second Advent "those who belong to Him" which is clearly ALL believers from all time, will be resurrected.

One resurrection of all believers, at the Second Advent.

And study 2 Thess 2:1.  Says the same thing.

And Rev 20:4-6 shows the resurrection of the saved at the Second Advent and calls it the FIRST resurrection, which will be 1,000 years before the resurrection of all the unsaved.

11 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

You claim to know when the Bridegroom will come.

The Bible tells us when King Jesus will come back.  The Second Advent.  See above.  No mystery.  What no one knows is WHEN according to your stopwatch.  

11 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

  May I call you God the Father then.

Don't be absurd.  Of course you can't.  That would be blasphemous, ridiculous, etc.

11 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

  Don't quote misapplied Scripture to support your unsubstantiated view.

If you choose to throw out these kind of claims, then please back them up with actual evidence.  Show me what verses I have misapplied and then explain the verses I've shown and prove they mean something else.  And what else they mean.

11 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

  The time of the arrival of the Bridegroom is not in Scripture.

Let me introduce you to Rev 19, where the saints already in heaven are preparing for the wedding supper.  The second part of that chapter shows all of them accompanying the King to earth.  Second Advent.

So I disagree with you.

11 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

'  Jesus said so, and He is the Word or all Scripture.  Don't look to Scripture, when it is not there.  Jesus Christ does not know of this time, why should you know.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Didn't you actually read what Jesus SAID?  He said, "no man knows the DAY or HOUR".  He didn't say that no man will know the sequence of when He will come back.  Of course we know.  The Bible has told us.  Plainly.

It's yours to prove me wrong by showing what the verses I've shared really mean.  The challenge is that the verses are so plainly stated that you will have a difficult time trying to spin them to mean something else.

Edited April 11, 2023 by FreeGrace

[chesed]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

The whole world will be under God's wrath.  Not just Israel.

Perhaps, but the Church won't be under God's wrath. That would be double jeopardy as Jesus Christ took God's wrath (which we deserved) upon Himself at Calvary. Or are you still living under His wrath? 

[FreeGrace]

56 minutes ago, chesed said:

Perhaps, but the Church won't be under God's wrath. That would be double jeopardy as Jesus Christ took God's wrath (which we deserved) upon Himself at Calvary. Or are you still living under His wrath? 

Col 3-

1 Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 

2 Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. 

3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. 

4 When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory. 

5 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 

6 Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.

7 You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 

8 But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. 

9 Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices 

10 and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator.

All this was written to saved people, believers, the Church.

And v.6 tells us that those who live "in these ways" (v.7) are warned that "the wrath of God is coming".  Why warn about something that cannot occur?  

God's wrath is toward sin.  Believers sin.  Just look across the ocean of evangelism in the world today.  Is there unity?  Hardly.  Is there a solid testimony?  Not according to the Barna polls that have been done.  A high percentage of believers live not much differently than unbelievers.

I've given you very clear verses about WHEN the singular resurrection of the saved will occur.  And you have done nothing to disprove or refute my understanding.  All you've done is disagree.  And all without any evidence on your side.

[Montana Marv]

24 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Col 3-

1 Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 

2 Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. 

3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. 

4 When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory. 

5 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 

6 Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.

7 You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 

8 But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. 

9 Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices 

10 and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator.

All this was written to saved people, believers, the Church.

And v.6 tells us that those who live "in these ways" (v.7) are warned that "the wrath of God is coming".  Why warn about something that cannot occur?  

God's wrath is toward sin.  Believers sin.  Just look across the ocean of evangelism in the world today.  Is there unity?  Hardly.  Is there a solid testimony?  Not according to the Barna polls that have been done.  A high percentage of believers live not much differently than unbelievers.

I've given you very clear verses about WHEN the singular resurrection of the saved will occur.  And you have done nothing to disprove or refute my understanding.  All you've done is disagree.  And all without any evidence on your side.

I see you believe we have been resurrected with Christ now. When did you change. Now all we wait for is the Harpozo of 1 Thes 4, which is an ascension., not a resurrection. 

In Christ 

Montana Marv 

[FreeGrace]

46 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

I see you believe we have been resurrected with Christ now. When did you change.

Well, you are "seeing things" then.  We WILL BE resurrrected "when He comes" at the Second Advent.

46 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

Now all we wait for is the Harpozo of 1 Thes 4, which is an ascension., not a resurrection. 

In Christ 

Montana Marv 

Where does 1 Thess 4:13-18 show an ascension TO HEAVEN?

And it surely DOES show resurrection.  

13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 

14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 

15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 

16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 

17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 

18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

All the red words refer to the resurrection of all believers.

Or, tell me what the red words specifically refer to.

Edited April 11, 2023 by FreeGrace

[Montana Marv]

4 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Well, you are "seeing things" then.  We WILL BE resurrrected "when He comes" at the Second Advent.

Where does 1 Thess 4:13-18 show an ascension TO HEAVEN?

And it surely DOES show resurrection.  

13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 

14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 

15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 

16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 

17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 

18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

All the red words refer to the resurrection of all believers.

Or, tell me what the red words specifically refer to.

Col 3.1 says we have been resurrected with Christ.  Past tense. You quoted the verse. Now you say we must be resurrected again later. Twice as must Holy Spirit if we have been double dipped then.

In Christ 

Montana Marv