When will the Judgment Seat of Christ (BEMA) occur?

[ChristB4us]

20 minutes ago, chesed said:

If you had lived during the Jimmy Carter era you would have known everyone was calling themselves 'born again', even Jimmy Carter. Talk is cheap, these forums prove that.

Those who are truly born again, regenerated cannot fall away permanently as God does not perform abortions...

John 5:24 ESV
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

Philippians 1:6 ESV
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

 

As far as Luke 8:13 goes, it's addressing those who have heard the Word and believed it emotionally (with joy) but were never converted.

I would ask you, what would you do to add to God's grace, to keep from falling away?

@FreeGrace

Also another point of references to confirm the word earlier as posted.

2 Thessalonians 3:1Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you: 2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith. 3 But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil. 4 And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you. 5 And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ. 6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. 7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;.....

14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. 15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

Paul had written this in respect to the falling away from the faith that was prophesied to occur in the latter days as he went on to explain that the iniquity for that apostasy was already operating in his day.

2 Thessalonians 2:1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first,....

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

What is this lie that saved believers would fall away from the faith for in seeking after that they would risk being left behind in becoming vessels unto dishonor in His House??

The tradition Paul taught of us exposes what that lie is.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

The tradition taught of us is that we had received the sanctification of the Spirit & the belief of the truth at the calling of the gospel and so at no other time after that will saved believers would be receiving the Holy Spirit for anything else.

Those who seek another baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues or by that sign of tongues are astray as some sinners in their assembly will go forward seeking a sign or proof of salvation which is by that sign of tongue.

Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

And although tongue speakers today would judged the holy laughter movement, slain in the spirit phenomenon, Ernest Angeley's healing Crusade, The Toronto's Blessings, & the Pensacola Outpouring as not of the Lord, yet by that same method for how they got tongues for private use is why they have gone astray thinking they can receive the Holy Spirit "again" apart from salvation by other signs too.

They believed that lie for why God permit that strong delusion to occur.  They are still our brothers and although no longer following after the traditions taught of us and are "disorderly", we are to correct them and withdraw from them when they are unrepentant, but not to treat them as the enemy, but admonish them as brothers, because they still are, even if they get left behind when the Bridegroom comes for being out to the market, seeking to be filled with the Holy Spirit when they were already of the kingdom of Heaven and thus filled with the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 25:1-13 KJV  <--- Click on link to read at Bible gateway of that parable.

[FreeGrace]

2 hours ago, Cntrysner said:

Scripture tells us that we are baptized into to his body.

 

The word "baptized" means "to be identified with", and all believers ARE identified with Christ.  And "into" refers to the believer's UNION with Christ, by the sealing ministry of the Holy Spirit per Eph 1:13,14.

2 hours ago, Cntrysner said:

Rom 6:4  Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 
Rom 6:5  For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

If we have been planted in the likeness of His death then we have assuredly already been resurrected from the dead with Him. Therefore death has no dominion over us for we were circumcised from this fleshly body of sin by an operation of God (Col 2:11-13). If you believe God’s operation is true you are no longer in the flesh because God cut it away you can not be judged because that body is dead, why would you want it resurrected for judgment? 
 
Rom 6:6  Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 
Rom 6:7  For he that is dead is freed from sin. 
Rom 6:8  Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 
Rom 6:9  Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.                        Rom 6:10  For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 
Rom 6:11  Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Recon yourselves resurrected from the dead and walking this earth alive in Christ. Your flesh was cut away and in God's eyes it is not part of you  anymore (Col 2:1-13). You are a new creature looking for a new creation to live in and are no longer mindful of earthly things but we need to continue to follow the path of our resurrected Christ because we are members of His body.

Col 2:8  Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 
Col 2:9  For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 
Col 2:10  And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 
Col 2:11  In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 
Col 2:12  Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 

Eph 5:30  For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. 
Eph 5:31  For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 
Eph 5:32  This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Lots of verses, but no point to be made.

[FreeGrace]

40 minutes ago, chesed said:

If you had lived during the Jimmy Carter era you would have known everyone was calling themselves 'born again', even Jimmy Carter. Talk is cheap, these forums prove that.

lol.  Just how old do you think I am, anyway?  Regardless of what you think, believers CAN and DO fall away from the faith, in spite of what reformed theology claims.

I cited where Jesus acknowledged that.

40 minutes ago, chesed said:

Those who are truly born again, regenerated cannot fall away permanently as God does not perform abortions...

Luke 8:13, straight from Jesus' mouth.  Apparently you don't believe Him??

40 minutes ago, chesed said:

John 5:24 ESV
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

Philippians 1:6 ESV
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

As far as Luke 8:13 goes, it's addressing those who have heard the Word and believed it emotionally (with joy) but were never converted.

I would ask you, what would you do to add to God's grace, to keep from falling away?

First, the above verses are about eternal security, not inability to fall away from the faith.  Second, the Bible in at least 2 verses, admonishes believers to "keep the faith", another proof that believers can do so.

[ChristB4us]

1 minute ago, FreeGrace said:

Paul referred to the resurrection of Jesus Christ as the FIRSTFRUITS, so he sure DID refer to the resurrection of Christ.  His point was that Jesus received the FIRST resurrection body.  He also made that same point in Acts 26:23, which I've already shared with you.  And the verse is very clear that "those who belong to Him" include EVERY saved person in history.  Or, prove me wrong.

I did and explained it all to you.  The plural includes ALL saved people.  Why doesn't that satisfy you?  Where is there clear evidence that there are several resurrections for saved people?

Sure.  Jesus is one Person.  So the singular.  So what?

I think you are just straining at gnats.  There is ONE resurrection of all the saved, which occurs "when He comes", the 2nd Advent.  Let's just leave it at that, since you cannot prove otherwise.  And the verse is clear enough.

What I said.  

You are not seeing everything in scripture for why you are applying the scripture you are seeing in the way that you are as if Jesus Christ will be coming as the Bridegroom and the King of kings at the same time when He is really not.

The pre great tribulation rapture event is when God will judge His House first as the Bridegroom for why He says to them depart from me ye workers of iniquity.  Then He will come as the King of kings to deal with the world's armies marching unto Jerusalem.

[Selah7]

5 minutes ago, ChristB4us said:

You are not seeing everything in scripture for why you are applying the scripture you are seeing in the way that you are as if Jesus Christ will be coming as the Bridegroom and the King of kings at the same time when He is really not.

The pre great tribulation rapture event is when God will judge His House first as the Bridegroom for why He says to them depart from me ye workers of iniquity.  Then He will come as the King of kings to deal with the world's armies marching unto Jerusalem.

The Great White Throne Judgment follows the Millennium.

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

- Revelation 20:7-12 (KJV)

s e l a h

[ChristB4us]

26 minutes ago, Selah7 said:

The Great White Throne Judgment follows the Millennium.

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

- Revelation 20:7-12 (KJV)

s e l a h

I agree but it is different from the BEMA Judgment seat of Christ  when judging His Church which will occur at the pre great tribulation rapture event for this is when the vessels unto honor, vessels of gold & silver, that are abiding in Him by His grace & by His help are received by the Bridegroom for why those that did not depart from iniquity are excommunicated from attending the Marriage Supper in Heaven & cast as in left behind into the coming great tribulation.  They will die, but their spirits will be with the Lord in Heaven to wait for their resurrection after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House, vessels of wood and earth to serve the king of kings on earth for that thousand year reign in raising up the generations coming.

[Selah7]

1 hour ago, ChristB4us said:

I agree but it is different from the BEMA Judgment seat of Christ  when judging His Church which will occur at the pre great tribulation rapture event for this is when the vessels unto honor, vessels of gold & silver, that are abiding in Him by His grace & by His help are received by the Bridegroom for why those that did not depart from iniquity are excommunicated from attending the Marriage Supper in Heaven & cast as in left behind into the coming great tribulation.  They will die, but their spirits will be with the Lord in Heaven to wait for their resurrection after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House, vessels of wood and earth to serve the king of kings on earth for that thousand year reign in raising up the generations coming.

Do you have a scripture or two that supports this?  Thx.

[chesed]

2 hours ago, ChristB4us said:

@FreeGrace

1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

You cannot fall away from the faith unless you had faith to begin with.

Here is wat Jesus warned about in being His disciples which has nothing to do with obtaining salvation, but to avoid being castaways when the Bridegroom comes.

John 15:1I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

By abiding in him & His words is how we are His disciples.  This is why we are to be trusting Him to correct us as time goes on of anything that is not of Him.  It is when we resist the reproof and thus not resisting sin, is how we stop abiding in Him.

Here is a faithful saying whereby those who verbally deny Him, He will deny them, and even though former believers would deny Him for not believing in Him any more, He still abides in them.  That means the former believers left behind are still saved for why we are to call them to depart from iniquity so they too may obtain the eternal glory that comes with our salvation of being that vessel unto honor in His House.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

So regardless of saved believers that have stopped believing in Him because of that false science, the evolution theory, or any other lie, He still abides in them and this is why we are to seek the good of those that have gone astray or believe but living in sin. to go to Jesus Christ for help so they too may be able to depart from iniquity to be received by Him as vessels unto honor in His House rather than be "left behind" as castaways and thus damned as vessels unto dishonor in His House to be resurrected after the great tribulation. 

To seek the good of others is for them to obtain that eternal glory that comes with our salvation by being that vessel unto honor in His House.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

So do not write them that have fallen away as never have been saved at all, but to correct them and if necessary to withdraw from them when unrepentant but not to treat them as the enemy, but to admonish them as brothers still, because they are, but in need of His help to see their error to repent before the Bridegroom comes.

 

I guess I didn't realize this conversation was about bearing fruit but rather whether loss of salvation was possible.

[chesed]

2 hours ago, ChristB4us said:

@FreeGrace

Also another point of references to confirm the word earlier as posted.

2 Thessalonians 3:1Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you: 2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith. 3 But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil. 4 And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you. 5 And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ. 6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. 7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;.....

14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. 15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

Paul had written this in respect to the falling away from the faith that was prophesied to occur in the latter days as he went on to explain that the iniquity for that apostasy was already operating in his day.

2 Thessalonians 2:1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first,....

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

What is this lie that saved believers would fall away from the faith for in seeking after that they would risk being left behind in becoming vessels unto dishonor in His House??

The tradition Paul taught of us exposes what that lie is.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

The tradition taught of us is that we had received the sanctification of the Spirit & the belief of the truth at the calling of the gospel and so at no other time after that will saved believers would be receiving the Holy Spirit for anything else.

Those who seek another baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues or by that sign of tongues are astray as some sinners in their assembly will go forward seeking a sign or proof of salvation which is by that sign of tongue.

Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

And although tongue speakers today would judged the holy laughter movement, slain in the spirit phenomenon, Ernest Angeley's healing Crusade, The Toronto's Blessings, & the Pensacola Outpouring as not of the Lord, yet by that same method for how they got tongues for private use is why they have gone astray thinking they can receive the Holy Spirit "again" apart from salvation by other signs too.

They believed that lie for why God permit that strong delusion to occur.  They are still our brothers and although no longer following after the traditions taught of us and are "disorderly", we are to correct them and withdraw from them when they are unrepentant, but not to treat them as the enemy, but admonish them as brothers, because they still are, even if they get left behind when the Bridegroom comes for being out to the market, seeking to be filled with the Holy Spirit when they were already of the kingdom of Heaven and thus filled with the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 25:1-13 KJV  <--- Click on link to read at Bible gateway of that parable.

Can you make your point in 2 or 3 sentences?

There seems to be lots of meandering. Sorry.

[chesed]

2 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

lol.  Just how old do you think I am, anyway?  Regardless of what you think, believers CAN and DO fall away from the faith, in spite of what reformed theology claims.

 

LoL, or in spite of what Arminian theology claims, they don't!

 

2 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Luke 8:13, straight from Jesus' mouth.  Apparently you don't believe Him??

Or perhaps He is not saying what you think He is saying?

2 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

First, the above verses are about eternal security, not inability to fall away from the faith.  Second, the Bible in at least 2 verses, admonishes believers to "keep the faith", another proof that believers can do so.

Is there a difference between eternal security and inability to fall away.

I would agree, men fall away for a season but the elect who have been called don't...

Romans 8:29-30 ESV
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. [30] And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
 

Edited April 12, 2023 by chesed