Who is the Man Child in Revelation 12?

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

Rev. 2:26 "And the one overcoming, and keeping My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations— 27  - ‘He shall rule them with a rod of iron; They shall be dashed to pieces like the potter’s vessels’—as I also have received from My Father..."

And who is the first? 

The saved? Or the Savior? 

You would know, would you.

You speak what is written in REV 2:26..

We know what it is written in Rev.2:26..but do you know what is written in Rev.12:1-2? 

This is about rev:12:1-2..

Can you talk about Rev.12:1-2?

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

Rev. 2:26 "And the one overcoming, and keeping My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations— 27  - ‘He shall rule them with a rod of iron; They shall be dashed to pieces like the potter’s vessels’—as I also have received from My Father..."

Out of the woman one child was born...

Why would the Dragon go after the this child? What was so important about this child? 

Do we have prophetic scriptures about what happened?  In v.1,2 of ch.12?

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

Rev. 2:26 "And the one overcoming, and keeping My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations— 27  - ‘He shall rule them with a rod of iron; They shall be dashed to pieces like the potter’s vessels’—as I also have received from My Father..."

Was Genesis 3:15 about the redeemed or about the Redeemer? 

[Your closest friendnt]

On 5/1/2023 at 5:32 PM, Vine Abider said:

However, we are the body of Christ. So if the heel is crushing the serpent's head, who is that?

@Vine Abider 

I am posting Genesis 3:15 for clarity.

15 I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.”

In the above scripture God is addressing the SERPENT (in Revelation 12: is called the Dragon) 

It begins by saying "that I will put enmity between you and the woman,

and between your offspring and her offspring:

he shall bruise your head and you shall bruise his heel. 

**first enmity between the Serpent and the woman

and then enmity between your offspring and her offspring.

In the next words God is saying something about the offspring of the woman.

First he is identifying the offspring of the woman as a male child by saying HE shall bruise your head. 

(God is talking about a male child to be born from the woman who shall bruise the head of the Serpent...and then God is telling the Serpent that he will bruise his heel...

In other words the one to be bruise at his heel by the Serpent is the one who shall bruise the head of the Serpent...

That one is the offspring of the woman, identified as He...( and as the offspring of the woman...singular...) The offspring of the woman as a male child...singular. 

A dwell between one against one...the offspring of the Serpent and the offspring of the woman...between someone to be born from a woman...

In my notes God is telling the Serpent that he is not going to make another Adam for the dwell between the offspring of the Serpent and him...

And the one appointed for the battle between the offspring of the Serpent and HIM will be born from a woman...

Telling the Serpent that Adam will have not part in that...meaning any of his offsprings will have no part in that (for the woman to give birth to the apointed one...but still somehow a woman will give birth to that male-child who bruise the heas of the Serpent...

"I acknowledge that it took ne some time to respond to your request...and here it is..

Thank you for asking...is very important to engage...in a conversation. 

 

[WilliamL]

18 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Can you talk about Rev.12:1-2?

Already have; don't like to continually repeat myself. Rev. 12 summary here:

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1053-revelation-12/

[Your closest friendnt]

2 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Already have; don't like to continually repeat myself. Rev. 12 summary here:

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1053-revelation-12/

...it's your privilege. Hope you had something to discuss..

[Vine Abider]

18 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Already have; don't like to continually repeat myself. Rev. 12 summary here:

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1053-revelation-12/

I basically agree with what you wrote.  Man-child is corporate - God will get His desire and purpose through man!

[Your closest friendnt]

6 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

I basically agree with what you wrote.  Man-child is corporate - God will get His desire and purpose through man!

Make your self clear as who was the one who sat on the Throne with God...in Rev.12:5

 ⁵She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.”

And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 

***Bellow is a copy and paste from the other's poster's post at the end of the post and in parentheses (Rev. 12:7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the Dragon [Satan]… 11 And they overcame him [Satan] by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their souls unto death.) 

and you agree with.

The other poster said: from Rev. 12:7-11 and he did not follow up to post the verses from 7 to 11, but he only posted verse 7 and then 11 in sinqouence and he left out verses 8,9, and 10...

Rev. 12:7-11 then reveals that this Manchild, a collective body, the elect-of-the-elect overcomers, will participate in the casting down of Satan and his angels out of heaven:

By doing this he has departed from what it is written in Rev. 12: v.7-10,  posted below 

7 Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:

“Now have come the salvation and the power
    and the kingdom of our God,
    and the authority of his Messiah.
For the accuser of our brothers and sisters,
    who accuses them before our God day and night,
    has been hurled down.

In verse 7,8,9 it is Michael and his Angels who fought the the Dragon and his Angels in Heaven and the Dragon and his Angels lost their place in Heaven and were and in v.9 the Dragon and his angels were hurled down to earth...And in verse 10 (before going to v.11)

10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:

“Now have come the salvation and the power
    and the kingdom of our God,
    and the authority of his Messiah.
For the accuser of our brothers and sisters,
    who accuses them before our God day and night,
    has been hurled down.

The verse 10 begins with THEN...it describes something that has happen as a result of the Dragon being hurled down to earth..

It says v.10 Then I heard a voice....

(Rev. 12:7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the Dragon [Satan]… 11 And they overcame him [Satan] by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their souls unto death.) 

[Vine Abider]

13 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Make your self clear as who was the one who sat on the Throne with God...in Rev.12:5

 ⁵She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.”

And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 

***Bellow is a copy and paste from the other's poster's post at the end of the post and in parentheses (Rev. 12:7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the Dragon [Satan]… 11 And they overcame him [Satan] by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their souls unto death.) 

and you agree with.

The other poster said: from Rev. 12:7-11 and he did not follow up to post the verses from 7 to 11, but he only posted verse 7 and then 11 in sinqouence and he left out verses 8,9, and 10...

Rev. 12:7-11 then reveals that this Manchild, a collective body, the elect-of-the-elect overcomers, will participate in the casting down of Satan and his angels out of heaven:

By doing this he has departed from what it is written in Rev. 12: v.7-10,  posted below 

7 Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:

“Now have come the salvation and the power
    and the kingdom of our God,
    and the authority of his Messiah.
For the accuser of our brothers and sisters,
    who accuses them before our God day and night,
    has been hurled down.

In verse 7,8,9 it is Michael and his Angels who fought the the Dragon and his Angels in Heaven and the Dragon and his Angels lost their place in Heaven and were and in v.9 the Dragon and his angels were hurled down to earth...And in verse 10 (before going to v.11)

10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:

“Now have come the salvation and the power
    and the kingdom of our God,
    and the authority of his Messiah.
For the accuser of our brothers and sisters,
    who accuses them before our God day and night,
    has been hurled down.

The verse 10 begins with THEN...it describes something that has happen as a result of the Dragon being hurled down to earth..

It says v.10 Then I heard a voice....

(Rev. 12:7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the Dragon [Satan]… 11 And they overcame him [Satan] by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their souls unto death.) 

I'm not sure what you are trying to convey . . . I think @WilliamL and I agree that the man-child is a corporate entity, which is Christ in His overcoming believers. 

[Your closest friendnt]

3 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

I'm not sure what you are trying to convey . . . I think @WilliamL and I agree that the man-child is a corporate entity, which is Christ in His overcoming believers. 

I am not asking with whom you are agreeing with...the reason I asked is that you posted that you are agreeing with a lot of things, and that leaves some room about things you do not agree with.

The other poster let us know nothing expressly in this matter in verse five..

As to whom do you say the one who God took to Heaven and sat him on the Throne with him in verse seven is? 

What do you say the verse five is pointing to whom? 

If you have any scripture specific that makes reference to the one God not only took to Heaven but also sat him with him on his Throne..

To make it more simple: Is it about the Redeemer or about the Redeemed? 

Is is about his Son or about the children of his Son..

and can God be the God of the Reddemer without being the God of the Redeemer first. 

The Scriptures say that God only invited the Redeemer his Son to sit on his Throne..to his right...only him..

the FIRST and the LAST.

no one else...this is what we have on verse five...Only him only one..only the man-child...

Man-child...the gentre is masculine...

In Revelation the invitation includes both men or women..

The Overcomers or the victors is a reference not to the "man-child" but to both men and women...

And the invitation is not from God but from the Messiah....to be sitted on the Messiah's Throne...together with him...

And as the Father has sitted me on his Throne so I will invite the victrious ones to sit with me on my Throne...

As my Father has given to me the authority to rule- poimeno over the Nations, I also about the Messiah will deligate authority to the victorious ones to rule-poimeno over the nations...

the same thing Jesus told to his disciples...that the Father has given all authority to me...in everything and I deligate authority to you...about this and about that...and without me you have nothing...

So is not God who gives authority to us or the disciples but it is the Messiah to whom God gave all authority...it is him whom God sat on his Throne with him...and the authority of his Messiah. 

10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:

“Now have come the salvation and the power
    and the kingdom of our God,
    and the authority of his Messiah.
For the accuser of our brothers and sisters,
    who accuses them before our God day and night,
    has been hurled down.

Who was the one whom God sat on his Throne after he took him to Heaven and gave him all authority to him and the Kingdom, His Kingdom...the Kingdom of God...

The Kingdom of God and the authroity of His Messiah...

This is what we see God sitting on the Throne with his Messiah...

Everyone has to come to God through his Messiah...