What Do People See That Causes Them To Wonder?

[douggg]

23 hours ago, Diaste said:

If the beast is the 8th king, and he is, and Daniel says the little horn, which is the endtime beast of Rev 13, arises from one of the four notable horns, and those four notable horns are Ptolemy, Cassander, Lysimachus and Seleucus,

Daniel 8:8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.

9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

The little horn does not come out of a king.    But instead out of either Ptolemy, Cassander, Lysimachus and Seleucus, kingdoms.

Cassander's ancient Greek Macedonia kingdom is the only one north and west of Israel.

It also happens to be the eastern boundary of the EU, the Roman empire of the end times

I am keeping an eye on Zelensky, a Jew, who the little horn to become the Antichrist, King of Israel, must be a Jew.   

 If Russia is Gog's main army, which it appears to be, then should the Russians decide to withdraw from their war on Ukraine and start bringing their forces back to Russia - it could be then Ezekiel 38:4 takes place of Russia being drawn back, but toward the middle east, into a conflict that develops of the muslim nations against Israel.

From the text of verse 4, it looks like Gog is going to be dragged into the Gog/Magog event, being turned back from whatever he is previously engaged in.

3 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

4 And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:

Going to have to see if somehow Zelensky becomes the leader over 10 EU leaders or not.   That would be a big break through bible prophecy event, imo.  Ukraine is on a fast track to become a full-fledged EU member state.

Edited June 11, 2023 by douggg

[Diaste]

48 minutes ago, douggg said:

Daniel 8:8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.

9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

The little horn does not come out of a king.    But instead out of either Ptolemy, Cassander, Lysimachus and Seleucus, kingdoms.

Sure. It is interesting that we see this in Dan 11:

"At the appointed time he will invade the South again, but this time will not be like the first. 30Ships of Kittimg will come against him, and he will lose heart. Then he will turn back and rage against the holy covenant and do damage. So he will return and show favor to those who forsake the holy covenant. 31His forces will rise up and desecrate the temple fortress. They will abolish the daily sacrifice and set up the abomination of desolation."

Which most everyone agrees is Antiochus IV Epiphanes, king of Syria, a Seleucid, grandson of Seleucid I Nicator. This leads me to believe the willful king in Dan 11:36 is from the Seleucid empire; Mesopotamia in general, from the ancient Assyrian empire more specifically. 

 

48 minutes ago, douggg said:

Cassander's ancient Greek Macedonia kingdom is the only one north and west of Israel.

Why is north and west significant?

48 minutes ago, douggg said:

I am keeping an eye on Zelensky, a Jew, who the little horn to become the Antichrist, King of Israel, must be a Jew. 

I think the line of David is a requirement also, if my memory is correct. 

48 minutes ago, douggg said:

 If Russia is Gog's main army, which it appears to be, then should the Russians decide to withdraw from their war on Ukraine and start bringing their forces back to Russia - it could be then Ezekiel 38:4 takes place of Russia being drawn back, but toward the middle east, into a conflict that develops of the muslim nations against Israel.

This is really a whole discussion with it's own thread. I will say that of late, I'm more of the mind that Gog of Magog is a metaphor for the armies of the world. 

48 minutes ago, douggg said:

From the text of verse 4, it looks like Gog is going to be dragged into the Gog/Magog event, being turned back from whatever he is previously engaged in.

3 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

4 And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:

Yes, and...

" 5Persia, Cush,c and Put will accompany them, all with shields and helmets, 6as well as Gomer with all its troops, and Beth-togarmah from the far north with all its troops—the MANY nations with you."

This is one reason why I think Gog of Magog is not a location but a metaphor for the great army of the assembled nations. 

48 minutes ago, douggg said:

Going to have to see if somehow Zelensky becomes the leader over 10 EU leaders or not.   That would be a big break through bible prophecy event, imo.  Ukraine is on a fast track to become a full-fledged EU member state.

Okay. I'll keeping looking to the Middle East.

 

[enoob57]

Something so clear speaking of these days

Daniel 12:4 (KJV)

[4] But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

How they can deny His Word as from Him

[Shilohsfoal]

On 4/19/2023 at 4:52 PM, Last Daze said:

I'm curious as to what other people think about the following passage, specifically, what do they see that makes them wonder:

*  The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction. And those who live on the earth, whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was, and is not, and will come.   Rev 17:8-9

Here's what we know:

*  The beast comes up out of the abyss, a prison for evil spirit beings.
*  When Revelation was written, the beast was not active but he previously had been (was, and is not).
*  The wonder results from deception because unbelievers are the ones who wonder.  The believers are not deceived, they don't wonder.
*  Their wondering has something to do with the beast's prior manifestation.

My thoughts are that this beast is the evil angel prince that caused Rome to exercise dominion.  He worked in concert with Satan and Judas to kill the Messiah.  To my knowledge, Judas was the only person in the Bible who Satan personally entered (Luke 22:3).  Judas is called the son of perdition (John 17:12), a title also used for the man of sin.  I think there will be a reunion of these three in the not too distant future.

The question is, "what do they show people?"  It's apparently something recognizable from history attributable to Rome, the beast's previous activity.

Rome is not going to attack Jerusalem and kill the two witnesses.

They are muslims who attack Jerusalem and capture it.

This is an Islamic prophecy found in the Hadith.They are to kill the Dajalls army and all the Jews and they believe Jesus will kill the Dajall near the gate of  Ludd near Jerusalem and all the world converts to Islam.

Reason for them to celebrate after killing the two witnesses.

 

They don't believe they will be destroyed after that.The christians in all those countries that attack Jerusalem  know what is going to take place because they read about it in the bible.

Those who wonder are not written in the lambs  book of life .They will be destroyed.

Edited June 11, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[douggg]

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

Why is north and west significant?

Because the little horn in Daniel 8:9 waxes exceedingly great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

...meaning that he is coming from a location northwest of Israel.    northwest of Israel is Greece.

[Last Daze]

7 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Rome is not going to attack Jerusalem and kill the two witnesses.

They are muslims who attack Jerusalem and capture it.

This is an Islamic prophecy found in the Hadith.They are to kill the Dajalls army and all the Jews and they believe Jesus will kill the Dajall near the gate of  Ludd near Jerusalem and all the world converts to Islam.

Reason for them to celebrate after killing the two witnesses.

 

They don't believe they will be destroyed after that.The christians in all those countries that attack Jerusalem  know what is going to take place because they read about it in the bible.

Those who wonder are not written in the lambs  book of life .They will be destroyed.

The beast who comes up out of the abyss is an evil spirit being.  During his first appearance millennia ago, he brought us what we know as Rome.  His end time appearance will produce a global government that the man of sin will rule over.  He is not geographically bound to Rome.

It is this evil spirit who overcomes the two witnesses.  The two witnesses are aided in their activities with help from angels of God.  The "spirit of Elijah" is not simply a reference to his demeanor.  He rested on John the Baptist, and will play a role in the coming judgment plagues.

[Shilohsfoal]

4 hours ago, Last Daze said:

The beast who comes up out of the abyss is an evil spirit being.  During his first appearance millennia ago, he brought us what we know as Rome.  His end time appearance will produce a global government that the man of sin will rule over.  He is not geographically bound to Rome.

It is this evil spirit who overcomes the two witnesses.  The two witnesses are aided in their activities with help from angels of God.  The "spirit of Elijah" is not simply a reference to his demeanor.  He rested on John the Baptist, and will play a role in the coming judgment plagues.

You know, I was under the impression that the two witnesses were christians seeing that their lord was crucified in that city.

Revelation 11:8

Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city—which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where also their Lord was crucified.

 

Don't you call the servants of Jesus Christ "christians "or do you call them something else?

[warrior12]

31 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

You know, I was under the impression that the two witnesses were christians seeing that their lord was crucified in that city.

Revelation 11:8

Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city—which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where also their Lord was crucified.

 

Don't you call the servants of Jesus Christ "christians "or do you call them something else?

Back up, backup.  So, this is how you read and scripture.  Do you use context to get the picture or you use just a verse. Read the entire chapter and see what status and might they were given by their Lord. 

So, what translation you used to get the word "figuratively".   All the translation I looked at, used the word "spiritually'.  You have allowed your mind to wander to see what you want to see.

rev.11

8  These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy, and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will

[Shilohsfoal]

6 minutes ago, warrior12 said:

11 minutes ago, warrior12 said:

Back up, backup.  So, this is how you read and scripture.  Do you use context to get the picture or you use just a verse. Read the entire chapter and see what status and might they were given by their Lord. 

So, what translation you used to get the word "figuratively".   All the translation I looked at, used the word "spiritually'.  You have allowed your mind to wander to see what you want to see.

rev.11

8  These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy, and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will

 

NIV

Scripture does not say the Lord gave them the power to speak the word "fire" ,nor does it say the Lord gave them the power to smite the earth or to cause it to not rain.

To say the Lord gave them the power to do those things would be assuming and I'd rather not assume.

Besides,I know of other people who have the power to do the things they do.

 

So  can you answer the question .

Do you call them Christians or not?If you don't call them Christians then why not seeing their Lord was crucified?

[warrior12]

24 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

NIV

Scripture does not say the Lord gave them the power to speak the word "fire" ,nor does it say the Lord gave them the power to smite the earth or to cause it to not rain.

To say the Lord gave them the power to do those things would be assuming and I'd rather not assume.

Besides,I know of other people who have the power to do the things they do.

 

So  can you answer the question .

Do you call them Christians or not?If you don't call them Christians then why not seeing their Lord was crucified?

So, tell me, if the life of God entered them, to whom do they belong.  And where did they go. You may not choose to call them Christians, but surely they are the Lord CHOSEN servants. 

Brother, get serious or you need to study scripture for yourself. 

The adverb figuratively describes something symbolic, not actual.

 

Revelation 11

 

New International Version

 

 

 

¹¹ But after the three and a half days the breath^[b] of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and terror struck those who saw them.  Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on.

Edited June 12, 2023 by warrior12