Who tried to kill Christ?

[Michael37]

1 hour ago, Shilohsfoal said:

You said 7.

I only see one nation persecuting God's people in the ends times in scripture.

Mathew 10:23

When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
 

You believe Egypt will be persecuting God's people throughout all the cities of Israel where the Jews live and reside?

Hi @Shilohsfoal I hope you don't mind some homework from my files.

The beast from the sea is a composite entity, not one nation, but a supernatural power:

The Bible is full of weird and wonderful things seen in dreams and visions, and the language of prophecy is full of metaphors and allegories, all of which have spiritual meanings for earthly application.

Here's a kingdom to consider, and the actions of an angel:

Rev 16:10-11  Then the fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and his kingdom became full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues because of the pain.  (11)  They blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and did not repent of their deeds.

The beast began rising way back to become the oppressor of God's People through Egypt, then Assyria, then Babylon, then Medo-Persia, then Greece, then Imperial Rome whose head has been wounded, and also Papal Rome. Seven Heads. One Beast. A metaphor of the wickedness of unregenerate humanity, not a literal creature.

On the subject of a missing kingdom, when Revelation was written Papal Rome was future, but there is an eighth kingdom to come, one that overarches the seven kingdom-heads of the beast to achieve Global Sovereignty before being destroyed by the Lamb who is accompanied by His called, and chosen, and faithful ones. 

Rev 17:9-13  This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits.  (10)  There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while.  (11)  The beast that was, and now is not, is an eighth king, who belongs to the other seven and is going into destruction.  (12)  The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but will receive one hour of authority as kings, along with the beast.  (13)  These kings have one purpose: to yield their power and authority to the beast.

Observe that the metaphorical depiction of Satan as a dragon shows him with seven crowns on his seven heads, but the beast from the sea is depicted with ten crowns, which are on its ten horns as distinct from the dragon whose crowns are on its heads only.

From this it can be deduced that the while the dragon has sovereign control (heads = control, crowns = sovereignty), it is to the beast that sovereign enforcement is given ( horns = enforcement).

One may ask," Why do the seven heads of the 1st beast morph into mountains in verse 9, specifically mountains on which the Great Harlot sits", and then go on to discover that mountains symbolise kingdoms.

Kingdoms as such have kings so it is no stretch to associate the seven demonically controlled mountain head kingdoms with their head or chief demons described in verse 10 as kings.

The dragon has seven crowns, the 1st beast has ten, three of them being derived from the charagma of the thērion (Mark of the Beast)

Blessings from Michael37.

[Shilohsfoal]

1 hour ago, Michael37 said:

Hi @Shilohsfoal I hope you don't mind some homework from my files.

The beast from the sea is a composite entity, not one nation, but a supernatural power:

The Bible is full of weird and wonderful things seen in dreams and visions, and the language of prophecy is full of metaphors and allegories, all of which have spiritual meanings for earthly application.

Here's a kingdom to consider, and the actions of an angel:

Rev 16:10-11  Then the fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and his kingdom became full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues because of the pain.  (11)  They blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and did not repent of their deeds.

The beast began rising way back to become the oppressor of God's People through Egypt, then Assyria, then Babylon, then Medo-Persia, then Greece, then Imperial Rome whose head has been wounded, and also Papal Rome. Seven Heads. One Beast. A metaphor of the wickedness of unregenerate humanity, not a literal creature.

On the subject of a missing kingdom, when Revelation was written Papal Rome was future, but there is an eighth kingdom to come, one that overarches the seven kingdom-heads of the beast to achieve Global Sovereignty before being destroyed by the Lamb who is accompanied by His called, and chosen, and faithful ones. 

Rev 17:9-13  This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits.  (10)  There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while.  (11)  The beast that was, and now is not, is an eighth king, who belongs to the other seven and is going into destruction.  (12)  The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but will receive one hour of authority as kings, along with the beast.  (13)  These kings have one purpose: to yield their power and authority to the beast.

Observe that the metaphorical depiction of Satan as a dragon shows him with seven crowns on his seven heads, but the beast from the sea is depicted with ten crowns, which are on its ten horns as distinct from the dragon whose crowns are on its heads only.

From this it can be deduced that the while the dragon has sovereign control (heads = control, crowns = sovereignty), it is to the beast that sovereign enforcement is given ( horns = enforcement).

One may ask," Why do the seven heads of the 1st beast morph into mountains in verse 9, specifically mountains on which the Great Harlot sits", and then go on to discover that mountains symbolise kingdoms.

Kingdoms as such have kings so it is no stretch to associate the seven demonically controlled mountain head kingdoms with their head or chief demons described in verse 10 as kings.

The dragon has seven crowns, the 1st beast has ten, three of them being derived from the charagma of the thērion (Mark of the Beast)

Blessings from Michael37.

Ok,let's take Persia for instance.Persia overthrew ancient Babylon and freed the Jews.

You claim persia oppressed God's people but the only people they oppressed were the Babylonians.

Are you saying the Babylonians are God's people?

 

Besides all this,according to Christ,it is Jerusalem who will persecute God's people.You can believe Christ,or you can reject him.its your decision.

 

Mathew 23:34-35

Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.

And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.

 

Jesus said ALL the righteous blood shed upon earth .Remember those words?They are also in revelation.

 

revelation 18:24

And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

 

 

So while you point the finger at other nations and kingdoms.Jesus points his finger directly at Jerusalem,where Benjamin netanyahu now rules.

 

Mathew 23:37

“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.

 

SO after the Israeli government has completed its works of killing the saints and prophets,then let those murderers be overcome by their enemies and let their enemies destroy them as God had said.

Edited April 27, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[R. Hartono]

On 4/27/2023 at 6:05 AM, Shilohsfoal said:

I've heard there was a child born who would rule all nations with a rod of iron but someone tried to kill him as soon as he was born.

 

Who tried to kill the child soon as he was born?

The dragon behind 

 

[WilliamL]

1 hour ago, Michael37 said:

The beast began rising way back to become the oppressor of God's People through Egypt, then Assyria, then Babylon, then Medo-Persia, then Greece, then Imperial Rome whose head has been wounded, and also Papal Rome. Seven Heads. One Beast. A metaphor of the wickedness of unregenerate humanity, not a literal creature.

Well put. With these first six heads being six sarim  over principalities in the lower heaven. All still around, each of diminished authority, yet all still being critical world players in the End Times.

[Shilohsfoal]

It wasn't king of Egypt who tried to kill Christ when he was born.

It wasn't the king of Persia who tried to kill Christ.

It wasn't even the king of Rome who tried to kill Christ.

 

It was the king of Judea.

Some things never change.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 28, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[Michael37]

8 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Ok,let's take Persia for instance.Persia overthrew ancient Babylon and freed the Jews.

You claim persia oppressed God's people but the only people they oppressed were the Babylonians.

Are you saying the Babylonians are God's people?

Besides all this,according to Christ,it is Jerusalem who will persecute God's people.You can believe Christ,or you can reject him.its your decision.

Mathew 23:34-35

Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.

And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.

Jesus said ALL the righteous blood shed upon earth .Remember those words?They are also in revelation.

revelation 18:24

And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

So while you point the finger at other nations and kingdoms.Jesus points his finger directly at Jerusalem,where Benjamin netanyahu now rules.

Mathew 23:37

“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.

SO after the Israeli government has completed its works of killing the saints and prophets,then let those murderers be overcome by their enemies and let their enemies destroy them as God had said.

Hi again @Shilohsfoal It seems you may be confusing the activities of the Dragon with those of the Beast from the Sea.

The sea symbolises unregenerate humanity:

#Isa 57:20  But the wicked are like the troubled sea, When it cannot rest, Whose waters cast up mire and dirt.
#Rev 17:15  Then he said to me, "The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues.

The persecution of Jews after the Babylonian Empire was conquered by the Medo-Persians is legendary. 

In Revelation 12, John sees a vision of a great red dragon with seven heads and ten horns. On the seven heads were seven diadems. The horns are a symbol of power and the crowns are a representation of authority. The dragon is identified as Satan. In Revelation 12:4, the dragon attempts to devour the Christ child as soon as he is born. The dragon and his angels also make war in heaven with Michael and his angels.

In Revelation 13, John sees a vision of a beast rising from the sea. This beast is described as having ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name. The beast resembled a leopard but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion 12. The dragon, or Satan, gives power to this beast.

The persecution of Jews after the Babylonian Empire was conquered by the Medo-Persians is legendary. 

Daniel was prominent in the Medo-Persian Empire and a trusted adviser to King Darius. However, after being placed as head of the satraps (governors, of sorts), Daniel was hated by some of them for his quick ascent. They laid a legal trap for Daniel that should have gotten him killed, for he was thrown into the infamous lions’ den. He survived, however, by God’s intervention, and he continued to prophesy, rule, and provide counsel in that foreign land (Daniel 6:28).

Another key event in the history of Israel also occurred in Persia. The book of Esther describes the origin of the Feast of Purim and how the Jews were spared mass destruction. When Cyrus released the Jews to their homeland, not all of them elected to return to Judah (Esther 3:8). King Artaxerxes (or “Ahasuerus,” as he is called in Esther) reigned from 404-359 B.C. and likely had little background on his government’s history with the Jews. So, when his top adviser, Haman, accused the Jews of being routinely disobedient to the king’s laws, Artaxerxes believed him and agreed to Haman’s plan of genocide against the Jews. Queen Esther, herself a Jewess, had been chosen queen of the empire without disclosing her origin. In a series of remarkable events, plainly evincing God’s providence, Esther was able to expose Haman’s vile motives. Not only were the Jews spared destruction, but Esther’s cousin Mordecai was given Haman’s place of honor. [Abridged from GotQuestions.org]

Blessings from Michael37

[Shilohsfoal]

2 hours ago, Michael37 said:

Hi again @Shilohsfoal It seems you may be confusing the activities of the Dragon with those of the Beast from the Sea.

The sea symbolises unregenerate humanity:

#Isa 57:20  But the wicked are like the troubled sea, When it cannot rest, Whose waters cast up mire and dirt.
#Rev 17:15  Then he said to me, "The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues.

The persecution of Jews after the Babylonian Empire was conquered by the Medo-Persians is legendary. 

In Revelation 12, John sees a vision of a great red dragon with seven heads and ten horns. On the seven heads were seven diadems. The horns are a symbol of power and the crowns are a representation of authority. The dragon is identified as Satan. In Revelation 12:4, the dragon attempts to devour the Christ child as soon as he is born. The dragon and his angels also make war in heaven with Michael and his angels.

In Revelation 13, John sees a vision of a beast rising from the sea. This beast is described as having ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name. The beast resembled a leopard but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion 12. The dragon, or Satan, gives power to this beast.

The persecution of Jews after the Babylonian Empire was conquered by the Medo-Persians is legendary. 

Daniel was prominent in the Medo-Persian Empire and a trusted adviser to King Darius. However, after being placed as head of the satraps (governors, of sorts), Daniel was hated by some of them for his quick ascent. They laid a legal trap for Daniel that should have gotten him killed, for he was thrown into the infamous lions’ den. He survived, however, by God’s intervention, and he continued to prophesy, rule, and provide counsel in that foreign land (Daniel 6:28).

Another key event in the history of Israel also occurred in Persia. The book of Esther describes the origin of the Feast of Purim and how the Jews were spared mass destruction. When Cyrus released the Jews to their homeland, not all of them elected to return to Judah (Esther 3:8). King Artaxerxes (or “Ahasuerus,” as he is called in Esther) reigned from 404-359 B.C. and likely had little background on his government’s history with the Jews. So, when his top adviser, Haman, accused the Jews of being routinely disobedient to the king’s laws, Artaxerxes believed him and agreed to Haman’s plan of genocide against the Jews. Queen Esther, herself a Jewess, had been chosen queen of the empire without disclosing her origin. In a series of remarkable events, plainly evincing God’s providence, Esther was able to expose Haman’s vile motives. Not only were the Jews spared destruction, but Esther’s cousin Mordecai was given Haman’s place of honor. [Abridged from GotQuestions.org]

Blessings from Michael37

I guess we see things differently.

You see the Jews who were being punished by God for disobeying God as a persecution.

I see those who obey Christ as being persecuted by those who disobey God.

 

In the prophecies concerning the end times it's the saints who do as Christ instructs as those being persecuted during the tribulation.

It is the Jews who disobey God's commands as the ones persecuting the saints.For that reason those Jews disobeying God are given to the beast from the abiss for their destruction.The saints then are resurected and recieve the land promised to abrahams seed.

Much like it is in Israel today,the disobedient Jews persecute the saints.But it will get much worse when the host is given to the beast in Israel to practice his authority of its behalf.At that time the woman who gave birth to the child will need to flee Israel into the wilderness for 1260 days out of reach of the Israeli government.1260 days is the exact amount of time the two witnesses and the gentiles occupy Jerusalem.

[Markie51]

I agree with what member Michael 37 posted.  Herod was only a tool or means by which Stan tried to kill Jesus as an infant.

[Shilohsfoal]

2 hours ago, Markie51 said:

I agree with what member Michael 37 posted.  Herod was only a tool or means by which Stan tried to kill Jesus as an infant.

So you believe Satan is restricted to a specific country and has no power outside of that country ?

Revelation 12:14

The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach.

 

So,exactly where upon earth would the woman flee that Satan can not "reach" her?

[Markie51]

This reply is for the last post made by member SHILOHSFOAL to my post:   "...believe Satan is restricted to a specific country...."  How is it that you concluded this from my prior post?  Regardless, I do thank you for your reply.