God in Hell

[eric]

Mark, why do you have to use snide remaks and insults when you are trying to make a point?

e

[BlindSeeker]

Mark, why do you have to use snide remaks and insults when you are trying to make a point?

e

It is simply the fruit of the tree Eric.

[yomotalking]

[Anne]

I'm think the same thing Yomo. lol

Can I ask a question? Well, i'm gonna ask it anyhow, can there be any evil in Heaven?

[Itzomi]

Can I ask a question? Well, i'm gonna ask it anyhow, can there be any evil in Heaven?

I'm feeling a little frisky, so I'm going to toss this in here to answer that:

Job 2: 1-2

When the day came for the heavenly beings to appear before the Lord, Satan was there among them. The Lord asked him, "What have you been doing?" Satan answered, "I have been walking here and there, roaming around the earth."

Skipping to verse 7...

Then Satan left the Lord's presence and made sores break out all over Job's body.

So, better than asking whether God can be in Hell, let's ponder why Satan is hanging out in heaven? How is he able to chill with God, who supposedly refuses to allow evil in His presence?

Also, before evil or hell even existed, Lucifer sinned while in heaven, so how can anyone be sure they'll never mess up throughout eternity and get kicked out themselves?

Edited November 13, 2005 by Itzomi

[abbershay]

Can I ask a question? Well, i'm gonna ask it anyhow, can there be any evil in Heaven?

I'm feeling a little frisky, so I'm going to toss this in here to answer that:

Job 2: 1-2

When the day came for the heavenly beings to appear before the Lord, Satan was there among them. The Lord asked him, "What have you been doing?" Satan answered, "I have been walking here and there, roaming around the earth."

Skipping to verse 7...

Then Satan left the Lord's presence and made sores break out all over Job's body.

So, better than asking whether God can be in Hell, let's ponder why Satan is hanging out in heaven? How is he able to chill with God, who supposedly refuses to allow evil in His presence?

Also, before evil or hell even existed, Lucifer sinned while in heaven, so how can anyone be sure they'll never mess up throughout eternity and get kicked out themselves?

first what are you meaning by the word evil?

we know that once we have been changed that we will be changed and incapable if falling away.

[abbershay]

Can I ask a question? Well, i'm gonna ask it anyhow, can there be any evil in Heaven?

I'm feeling a little frisky, so I'm going to toss this in here to answer that:

Job 2: 1-2

When the day came for the heavenly beings to appear before the Lord, Satan was there among them. The Lord asked him, "What have you been doing?" Satan answered, "I have been walking here and there, roaming around the earth."

Skipping to verse 7...

Then Satan left the Lord's presence and made sores break out all over Job's body.

So, better than asking whether God can be in Hell, let's ponder why Satan is hanging out in heaven? How is he able to chill with God, who supposedly refuses to allow evil in His presence?

Also, before evil or hell even existed, Lucifer sinned while in heaven, so how can anyone be sure they'll never mess up throughout eternity and get kicked out themselves?

first what are you meaning by the word evil? and how do you know they were in heaven?

we know that once we have been changed that we will be changed and incapable if falling away.

[Itzomi]

first what are you meaning by the word evil?

The girl before me asked if evil could exist in heaven, so since Lucifer "sinned," apparently it was possible for evil to occur.

and how do you know they were in heaven?

It doesn't sound like God & Satan were on earth, because God is asking Satan where he'd been, and Satan said he was on the earth. And since the heavenly beings are appearing before the Lord, it sounds like they're on God's turf, not Satan's.

Either way, Satan is still in the presence of God. Read verses 1 through 7. They're even having a casual little chat! I'm surprised Satan didn't ask God for a beer!

we know that once we have been changed that we will be changed and incapable if falling away.

Incapable of falling away? As in no longer having free will? If that's the case, why didn't He start creation off that way in the first place? It would have saved a lot of people from an eternity in hell. Besides, how was Lucifer capable of sinning in heaven himself? Now that the cat's out of the bag and sin does exist, it doesn't make sense that it would be LESS possible to sin in heaven now than it was before sin even existed.

Edited November 13, 2005 by Itzomi

[BlindSeeker]

I'm feeling a little frisky, so I'm going to toss this in here to answer that:

Job 2: 1-2

When the day came for the heavenly beings to appear before the Lord, Satan was there among them. The Lord asked him, "What have you been doing?" Satan answered, "I have been walking here and there, roaming around the earth."

Skipping to verse 7...

Then Satan left the Lord's presence and made sores break out all over Job's body.

So, better than asking whether God can be in Hell, let's ponder why Satan is hanging out in heaven? How is he able to chill with God, who supposedly refuses to allow evil in His presence?

Also, before evil or hell even existed, Lucifer sinned while in heaven, so how can anyone be sure they'll never mess up throughout eternity and get kicked out themselves?

Satan was in heaven before God was justified in the spirit and seen of angels (I Tim 3:16) hanging on the cross for the sins of the world . . . but not any more!

Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

Joh 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

[Itzomi]

Satan was in heaven before God was justified in the spirit and seen of angels (I Tim 3:16) hanging on the cross for the sins of the world . . . but not any more!

Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

Joh 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat???

Okay, now I am REALLY confused, esp. after reading in my Bible the verses you gave in Revelation and those surrounding them. Satan and his angels are thrown out in heaven. This is BEFORE God created man, right?? Before sin entered the world? Then why does it say, "The huge dragon was thrown out - that ancient serpent, named the Devil, or Satan, that deceived the whole world. He was thrown down to earth, and all his angels with him. . . . For the one who stood before our God and accused believers day and night has been thrown out of heaven." There were no believers - or humans, period - to accuse! (And also note he stood before God while accusing believers. How can Satan - the epitome of evil - stand before God?)

As for what you say here: "Satan was in heaven before God was justified in the spirit and seen of angels (I Tim 3:16) hanging on the cross for the sins of the world . . . but not any more," I don't understand. What do you mean, "God was justified in the Spirit"? Excuse me if I'm misunderstanding what you wrote, but are you saying God was able to withstand the presence of evil up until Jesus hung on the cross? If that's the case, the whole plan of salvation is thrown out of whack. I thought mankind was doomed to Hell because they couldn't go to heaven with their sin and be in God's presence? Is the appearance of Jesus in the world to actually doom mankind to hell, whereas beforehand, God could withstand evil?

Wait a minute...Reading further in Revelations (regarding Satan being thrown out of heaven), it says (12:11), "They won the victory over him by the blood of the Lamb..." Jesus didn't shed His blood before man was created. So, it DOES say Satan was IN HEAVEN all this time, accusing believers to God's face, up until Jesus died on the cross. Whoa! That's mind-boggling, because if God could put up with Satan all this time hanging around up there, He could put up with sinful man going to heaven, couldn't He?

So, basically, Jesus coming to "save" the world, really is dooming the world to hell. That's how it sounds, if it was after the sacrifice of Jesus that He could no longer withstand evil in His presence. I thought the sacrifice was so that He could accept sinful believers in His presence?

If there's a logical explanation for this, I'd like to hear it. Maybe I'm missing something.

Edited November 13, 2005 by Itzomi