Adam & Eve - Christ & The Church

[Marilyn C]

40 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Man says - the new man becomes the new woman.

God says - 

`I will betroth you to me FOREVER; yes, I will betroth you to me in righteousness and justice, in lovingkindness and mercy; I will betroth you to me in faithfulness, and you shall know the Lord.` (Hosea 2: 19 & 20)

`your Maker is your HUSBAND, the Lord of hosts is His name...` (Isa. 54: 5)

 

Whose word do you believe?

 

You are telling me that a man, Watchman Nee has said that the Body of Christ, the new man, will change into a woman, the bride.

I am pointing out that God says who He is `married` to - Israel. 

[AdHoc]

@Vine Abider @JimmyB @Marilyn C @Mr. M and others, I'm joining a bit late but its a profound subject.

First, sin came by Eve in time but Adam carries the responsibility (Rom.5:12-17). But sin was already a fact because long before Adam sinned, Lucifer had rebelled. When God gave the order for Adam and Eve to "dress and keep the Garden" the serpent, with subtlety, was already there. But consider the extent of Adam's sin. He disobeyed God first by not eating from the Tree of Life. He sinned in that he "hearkened to his wife" (he was cursed for it in 3:17). Lucifer's sin was his desire to overthrow God's government (Isa.14 & Ezek.28). Eve overthrew Adam's headship in favor of an angel, and Adam tolerated it. Thus, she must wear the head-covering "for the angels' sake" (1st Cor.11:10). Her curse, among others, is that the gentle commands of a healthy head to a healthy body are gone and the man must "rule". "Rule" implies authority with the cavalry to back the king. A large percentage of failed marriages can be attributed to this "harsher" rule. God predicted that the woman would oppose it.

Next, Jehovah is Israel's Husband - not Jesus. Israel have idols since Rachel (Gen.31), worshiped them in Egypt and carried them and their tabernacles through the wilderness. This is called "whoring". Thus, Jehovah must pitch His Tent outside the camp of Israel and dwell behind a curtain. Jehovah gives Israel a writ of divorce and calls them Lo-ammi - "you are NOT my People". Only in Israel's restoration in the Millennial Kingdom is God joined to Israel (This is shown in Song of Solomon). Ezekiel's Temple does not have the curtain and Israel my "serve" Jehovah. But even in the Messianic Kingdom God does not join Himself to Israel. He dwells WITH her (Ps.101:6).

The Church is different. As God's House it is spiritual (1st Pet.2:4). This is because God is a Spirit and dwells in the spirits of Believers (Jn.3:6, 4:24, 1st Cor.6:17). But as to the Church, Christ's BODY, it is physical. Our MEMBERS are those of Christ (1st Cor.6:15). That is why the Gates of Hades are an enemy. The death of a Believer detracts from the BODY of Christ. And it is His BODY that counts for it is "not good that a MAN be alone". That is why BOTH Eve and the Church are "bone of His bone and flesh of his flesh". The Church, which was not revealed to the prophets before John Baptist, is the "spiritual House of Jehovah" ("in my FATHER'S house are many abodes"), but the physical BODY of Jesus. And like all the creation, it is there to display God (Rom.1:19-20). But it has additional functions.

Before Eve, Adam sits before a parade of animals, each with delightful characteristics. But no "help MEET" is found. the word "help" means, "a companion", and "MEET" means "up to the standard of". For Christ's Bride/Wife to be "up to the standard of" Christ, it must (i) come out of Him and (ii) it must have His life or nature. This is only to be had by rebirth, and rebirth is only to be had by FAITH (Jn.1:13-14). Israel never have faith, so they could never be born again - and thus NEVER have Christ's nature and life. This is the message of the prophets up to, and including Zachariah in Luke 1. Israel can never be "one" with Christ. He is their KING - not their HEAD.

The closing verses of Ephesians 5, if read correctly according to the grammar, show Christ and the Church by man and wife, not the other way around. the "mystery" is Christ and the Church - not man and wife. Again, the creation shows the things of God. I judge that the joining of the MAN Jesus to MEN (Eph,5:30) so that men proceed from, and possess the nature of, Christ, is the most profound revelation of the Bible. Creation is wonderful, but it does not have the life of God. Israel is beautiful and displays the righteousness of God - His leading attribute. Resurrection displays God's power, but all men, even the lost, are resurrected. But only the Church is to be in the image and likeness of God. God, in a unique display of all His attributes, elevates mere dust to be in the image of Jesus (Rom.8:29) and couples the inanimate with human life and divine life in one "earthen vessel". It is given to MEN to display God at His highest - not angels.

[Marilyn C]

5 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Both these accounts you cite are before chapter 3, which where the serpent enters the scene and temped Eve and then Adam fell.  No sin (off the mark) with Adam or Eve mentioned prior to that.  So not seeing that they had any sin before the serpent comes in, in chapter 3.

Are you talking to me, VA?

[com7fy8]

One thing I think of >

Paul in Ephesians 5 does not use Adam and Eve as his model for marriage. But Paul uses how Jesus relates with His church, as his model for how to relate in marriage.

[Vine Abider]

On 6/2/2023 at 4:06 PM, JimmyB said:

The idea that sin was not involved with Eve being produced cannot be true of her production. Eve sinned against God first, so how did she acquire sin if not from Adam?  I believe that Adam had sin from the beginning -- there are two accounts of his creation.  

Genesis 1:26-27, "Then God said, “Let us make humankind in our image, after our likeness, so they may rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move on the earth.”

God created humankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them,
male and female he created them.

Genesis 2:7, "The Lord God formed the man from the soil of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being."  Genesis 2:27, "So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep, and while he was asleep, he took part of the man’s side and closed up the place with flesh. Then the Lord God made a woman from the part he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man."

Both these accounts you cite are before chapter 3, which where the serpent enters the scene and temped Eve and then Adam fell.  No sin (off the mark) with Adam or Eve mentioned prior to that.  So not seeing that they had any sin before the serpent comes in, in chapter 3.

[Vine Abider]

15 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Are you talking to me, VA?

No, sorry, it was for JimmyB - but for some reason it didn't attribute it to his post!

[JimmyB]

19 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Both these accounts you cite are before chapter 3, which where the serpent enters the scene and temped Eve and then Adam fell.  No sin (off the mark) with Adam or Eve mentioned prior to that.  So not seeing that they had any sin before the serpent comes in, in chapter 3.

The serpent did not create the sin.  He tempted Eve and she responded because of her sin nature.  As did Adam.

[George]

Just now, JimmyB said:

The serpent did not create the sin.  He tempted Eve and she responded because of her sin nature.  As did Adam.

So she was born in sin?  Is this what you are implying?

[George]

Rom 5:12  Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— 

Rom 5:13  for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. 

Rom 5:14  Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come. 

Just a Bible passage to clarify. 

Be blessed. 

[Mr. M]

4 minutes ago, JimmyB said:

The serpent did not create the sin.  He tempted Eve and she responded because of her sin nature.  As did Adam.

 

While there was not yet sin in the world, there was desire!

Genesis 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

James 1:

14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 

15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin,

when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

5 minutes ago, George said:

Rom 5:14  Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come. 

Adam received the commandment and therefore bore the responsibility of obedience.