Adam & Eve - Christ & The Church

[AdHoc]

19 minutes ago, Alive said:

The Truth is, I do not know for sure and that is my point. There seem to be distinctions for either function or illustration. Beyond that, is speculation.

The typology of a man and a maid is important and shows a bit of God's plan to 'reproduce' after kind. I am convinced this is God's 'Eternal Purpose' as Paul mentioned brought about by Christ--the Word became Flesh and then at Resurrection no longer flesh and blood, but flesh and bone...realized when we are changed.

Much of this is beyond us...but oh so wonderful to wonder and praise Him.

A most noble answer. This is my understanding.

In 2nd Corinthians 11:2 all Christians are espoused to Jesus. But Ephesians 5 say this about Christ's Bride;

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

From all the letters to the Churches, including the seven in Revelation 2 and 3, plus many of the parables in the gospels, it is clear that when our Lord Jesus comes back His Church will NOT be "holy and WITHOUT blemish". So the question is, will God the Father withhold His Son Jesus' JOY because some Christians were sloppy and uncaring?

BY NO MEANS! Jesus has done His most excellent work at great price. The Father will carry on with the Wedding Feast. Those Christians who are mature, have Overcome the apostasy and who were in a loving relationship with Jesus for years, will make up a REPRESENTATIVE BRIDE. They can be seen in Revelation 19. A "garment" in Typology is one's works and verse 7-8 show that the bride made her own garment. Her WORKS after salvation were in order. She is to enjoy Christ and He her for 1,000 years (Matthew 22:2 and 25:1 says that the Wedding Feast is LIKE the Kingdom, and the kingdom lasts 1,000 years).

The slothful, uncaring and sinful Christians have an INADEQUATE garment. They are banned from the Wedding Feast and do not make up the Bride. But God's salvation is not to be thwarted. During the time that the "Overcoming Bride" is enjoying the pleasures of the Wedding Feast, God disciplines the wayward Christians and after some time, they are sanctified dispositionally. When God ushers in the New Earth and New Jerusalem, ALL Christians will be mature and holy. Then all Christian make up the WIFE (Rev.21).

What is at stake here is not one's salvation. It is (i) participating in the Wedding Feast, and (ii) enjoying the Joy and prestige of being named the BRIDE. A Bride is only a Bride on one day. She is a Wife forever. Her big day is her Wedding Feast.

[Vine Abider]

1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Are not the body of Christ and the bride of Christ two different things?

 

55 minutes ago, Alive said:

The Truth is, I do not know for sure and that is my point. There seem to be distinctions for either function or illustration. Beyond that, is speculation.

And my thinking is they are mostly the same, and as Alive said, perhaps some "distinction for either function or illustration."

When the Lord showed me about ten years ago, that He was speaking to us in terms we'd understand (i.e., body, bride & building), I had the sense that these were different illustrations of the same.  And since then, I've not seen anything in the word that would suggest to me they are different things.  (I know some on here believe them to have different distinctions, but again, I've not seen that in the word.)

[Your closest friendnt]

And then we have

"the church " 

What about "the church"? 

Is it the meeting of the believers of all walks of Life and all kinds of maturity...as a place to grow and learn about what we believe...And a place to be restored and refresh and worship and prayer and many of the things we can do smaller gatherings or even on our own.

But the church should also and must have seekers and unbelievers and even people hostile to the faith should not be forbidden to sit and listen... 

It should always be a place of invitation to all people without prejudice. 

Edited June 14, 2023 by Your closest friendnt

[Your closest friendnt]

2 hours ago, AdHoc said:

A most noble answer. This is my understanding.

In 2nd Corinthians 11:2 all Christians are espoused to Jesus. But Ephesians 5 say this about Christ's Bride;

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

From all the letters to the Churches, including the seven in Revelation 2 and 3, plus many of the parables in the gospels, it is clear that when our Lord Jesus comes back His Church will NOT be "holy and WITHOUT blemish". So the question is, will God the Father withhold His Son Jesus' JOY because some Christians were sloppy and uncaring?

BY NO MEANS! Jesus has done His most excellent work at great price. The Father will carry on with the Wedding Feast. Those Christians who are mature, have Overcome the apostasy and who were in a loving relationship with Jesus for years, will make up a REPRESENTATIVE BRIDE. They can be seen in Revelation 19. A "garment" in Typology is one's works and verse 7-8 show that the bride made her own garment. Her WORKS after salvation were in order. She is to enjoy Christ and He her for 1,000 years (Matthew 22:2 and 25:1 says that the Wedding Feast is LIKE the Kingdom, and the kingdom lasts 1,000 years).

The slothful, uncaring and sinful Christians have an INADEQUATE garment. They are banned from the Wedding Feast and do not make up the Bride. But God's salvation is not to be thwarted. During the time that the "Overcoming Bride" is enjoying the pleasures of the Wedding Feast, God disciplines the wayward Christians and after some time, they are sanctified dispositionally. When God ushers in the New Earth and New Jerusalem, ALL Christians will be mature and holy. Then all Christian make up the WIFE (Rev.21).

What is at stake here is not one's salvation. It is (i) participating in the Wedding Feast, and (ii) enjoying the Joy and prestige of being named the BRIDE. A Bride is only a Bride on one day. She is a Wife forever. Her big day is her Wedding Feast.

Thank you for your study.

An excellent commentary. You have a gift with the words. 

Edited June 14, 2023 by Your closest friendnt

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

 

And my thinking is they are mostly the same, and as Alive said, perhaps some "distinction for either function or illustration."

When the Lord showed me about ten years ago, that He was speaking to us in terms we'd understand (i.e., body, bride & building), I had the sense that these were different illustrations of the same.  And since then, I've not seen anything in the word that would suggest to me they are different things.  (I know some on here believe them to have different distinctions, but again, I've not seen that in the word.)

Looking for love in all the wrong places...

[Anne2]

The conversation here between you has been very wonderful to read. Wow.

I do not know if this question will resonate with any of you, or throw a kink into the conversation. I certainly hope not the latter. The "Church of the firstborn" is a phrase used in scripture. Do any of you have an application for this as an illustration, or anything within your discussion so far? Again thank you all for your posts for us to enjoy

Blessings

[Your closest friendnt]

55 minutes ago, Anne2 said:

The conversation here between you has been very wonderful to read. Wow.

I do not know if this question will resonate with any of you, or throw a kink into the conversation. I certainly hope not the latter. The "Church of the firstborn" is a phrase used in scripture. Do any of you have an application for this as an illustration, or anything within your discussion so far? Again thank you all for your posts for us to enjoy

Blessings

Within that meaning and Within these boundaries as in Revelation 1:4-6 in other words "the Church of Jesus Christ." 

4 To the seven churches in the province of Asia:

Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits[a] before his throne, 

5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.

To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 

6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

 

[Anne2]

14 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Within that meaning and Within these boundaries as in Revelation 1:4-6 in other words "the Church of Jesus Christ." 

4 To the seven churches in the province of Asia:

Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits[a] before his throne, 

5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.

To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 

6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

 

Yeah I thought about firstborn from the dead as well.

Church of the firstborn

Firstborn usually is associated with a double portion of inheritance

Would a double portion apply in this application? If so, how?

Edited June 14, 2023 by Anne2

[Your closest friendnt]

 

1 hour ago, Anne2 said:

Yeah I thought about firstborn from the dead as well.

Church of the firstborn

Firstborn usually is associated with a double portion of inheritance

Would a double portion apply in this application? If so, how?

We need to separate the two situations the first born from the dead or the place from the dead which it took place when Jesus came out from the place of the dead and the first born who comes out of a woman. Where deferent customs exists for deferent Nations or coultures..

Let's talk only about Jesus Christ. 

About what Jesus Christ has done for us out of love he open the way out from the place of the dead and he opened the way to Heaven...out of Love by believing in him, and having theforgiveness of sins in his name, in his blood.

"The first born from the dead" in Revelation 1 is telling a story which began from Genesis 3:15 or the exact time Adam and Eve ate from the fruit of the forbidden tree. They disobeyed God and ate from the fruit of the forbidden tree. 

(I would like that you use the same words as are in the scriptures it is very important and not look for excuses to justify the use of other words.)

That time something happened, it was established that no human no matter what when they die they can go to any other place than the place of the dead and they had to stay there...no one ever left that place...

To make it simple every one who died he had to descend to the place of the dead..

The key words are anyone who died. 

Simple meaning...die is referring to physical death. 

Jesus Christ is the first one who came out fron the place of the dead...born from the dead...like he came out as in the meaning the baby comes out from the woman and can never go back to the womb of the woman...

The same meaning applies to Jesus, when he came out from the place of the dead, the first one ever, which was the beginning for something new and others followed him...but he was the first one to open the way...and never can go back there again...

I should mention that does not apply to us who are alive to Jesus Christ...we will never have to experience that or that can never happen to us, as it is impossible to happen to us because with Jesus Christ we have inherited the heavenly Inheritance...we will go to him we are his the only thing that keep us for being in heaven with him right now is that we are in our still alive we are still in our earthly body...waiting for our earthly body to die so we can be with Jesus in Heaven where he is also.

This is the fullfilment of Genesis 3:15...

Jesus had to die and he died this is the only way to go diwn there in the place of the dead and in due time he came out from there the first one ever not to return back there again and he opened the way for others that follow who had died before him..the Lamb of God had to be slain to shed the blood for the new covenant. 

Jesus came out from the place of the dead having the keys of Death and Hades...

Now he is the Lord of all and he sits in judgment as to who will go to Hades or not...

But it has been determined that we go to Heaven to him. 

 

Edited June 14, 2023 by Your closest friendnt

[Vine Abider]

@Anne2 & @Your closest friendnt - good rundown on "the firstborn from the dead!"

The firstborn also carries significance in that the inheritance of all the father has goes to that one.  In this case it is Jesus - "that He might be the firstborn of many." (Rom 8:29)  Then in Hebrews 12:23, "to the assembly of the firstborn whose names have been written in heaven, to God who is the judge of all, to the spirits of righteous people made perfect."

So I read that to mean that because we are in Christ, all that He has coming to Him is also ours.  This is backed up by such verses as 1 Corinthians 3;22, "all things are yours" and Romans 8:17, “Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ."