Knowledge or Science, falsely so called.

[Mr. M]

4 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

the Archimedes Palimpsest.

Archimedes was possibly the world's greatest scientist — at least the greatest in the classical age. He was a physicist, mathematician, astronomer, inventor and engineer. Many of his inventions, theories and concepts are still in use today. Perhaps his best-known achievement was his "Eureka" moment, when he discovered the principle of buoyancy.

 

Biography

Archimedes lived in Syracuse on the island of Sicily in the third century B.C. At that time, Syracuse was one of the most influential cities of the ancient world, according to Scientific American. Trading vessels from Egypt, Greece and Phoenicia filled the city-state's harbor. It was also a hub of commerce, art and science, according to the Archimedes Palimpsest.

 

After studying geometry and astronomy in Alexandria, the "greatest intellectual center in the ancient world," according to Scientific American, Archimedes settled down in Syracuse to pursue a life of thought and invention.

[BeyondET]

5 hours ago, Mr. M said:

So you don't think there was any sciences in Greek society that influenced the thinking of those Greeks who were hearing the Message? Doesn't the scientific methodology trace it's origins at least to Greek investigations? Did the Greek intelligentsia mock Paul's teaching of the Resurrection based solely on philosophical or religious grounds, or did their education include the sciences of the day? 

Acts 17:

18 Then certain Epicurean and Stoic philosophers encountered him. And some said, What does this babbler want to say? Others said, He seems to be  proclaiming foreign gods, because he preached to them Jesus and the resurrection.

32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked, while others said, We will hear you again on this matter. 33 So Paul departed from among them. 34 However, some men joined him and believed, among them Dionysius the Areopagite, a woman named Damaris, and others with them.

You posted one verse out of the whole context of the chapter. 1 Timothy 6:20.

When that verse is included with the rest of the context. It shows what it's about. False doctrines and knowledge of making money being greedy.

1 Timothy 6 isn't talking about science.

The older KJV uses the word science but the NKJV doesn't. they wised up and science isn't the word that should be used in 1 Timothy 6.

Not many translations use the word science for good reason it doesn't fit the narrative in 1 Timothy 6.

In chapter Acts 17 you posted philosophy is not a science not even a social science, though can be false doctrine.

Edited June 6, 2023 by BeyondET

[BeyondET]

4 hours ago, Mr. M said:

Greek science still in application.

https://www.livescience.com/58839-archimedes-principle.html

One of his inventions was the Archimedes screw. This device uses a corkscrew with a hollow tube. When the screw turns, water is pulled up the tube. It was originally used to empty sea water from a ship's hull. It is still used today as a method of irrigation in developing countries, according to the Archimedes Palimpsest.

The Achimedes screw worked so that was true science. Nothing false about the screw and it was good knowledge.

Show me a science today thats false or has no good knowledge. FYI evolution is not a science but a theory a philosophy if you were to use it as an example.

 

Edited June 6, 2023 by BeyondET

[Mr. M]

7 minutes ago, BeyondET said:

You posted one verse out of the whole context of the chapter. 1 Timothy 6:20.

20 O Timothy! Guard what was committed to your trust, avoiding the profane and idle babblings and contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge— 21 by professing it some have strayed concerning the faith.

Grace be with you. Amen.

He is closing out the letter brother. The context overwhelmingly is maintaining purity of doctrine.

1 Timothy

4:6 If you instruct the brethren in these things, you will be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished in the words of faith and of the good doctrine which you have carefully followed. 

5:21 I charge you before God and the Lord Jesus Christ and the elect angels that you observe these things without prejudice, doing nothing with partiality.

6:3-5 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness, he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself.

9 But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition.

13 I urge you in the sight of God who gives life to all things, and before Christ Jesus who witnessed the good confession before Pontius Pilate, 14 that you keep this commandment without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ’s appearing.

To say that all Paul was concerned with was money is quite an oversimplification.

 

[Mr. M]

3 minutes ago, BeyondET said:

Show me a science today thats false or has no good knowledge.

I already stated that I have no beef with science personally. That does not preclude some from drawing false conclusions from sound information for the express purpose of doubting God's Word, hence the formulation "opposition of gnosis, FALSELY SO CALLED". This is the third time I have pointed out this distinction. Paul had no beef with knowledge in general. His beef was with knowledge used by unreasonable men, that exalts that knowledge above or in opposition to the gnosis of God. 

1 Corinthians 15:12 Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?

Would you consider the possibility that some educated Greeks might call into question the verity of someone being raised from the dead based on their personal knowledge? Is that a problem?

17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!

[Daniel Marsh]

On 6/2/2023 at 9:07 PM, Mr. M said:

1 Timothy 6:

20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings,

and oppositions of science falsely so called:

21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.

Paul taught by the Holy Spirit. The Word of God by definition should prevail over the opposition from the ideas of man, and sciences, so called. Therefore, the prayers made on behalf of ministry outreach has to be directed towards the hearts of those who will hear the message. Prayer is an essential element of kingdom building. Assuming we can agree that prayer is submission first and foremost.

Colossians 4:2-6 Continue earnestly in prayer, being vigilant in it with thanksgiving; meanwhile praying also for us, that God would open to us a door for the word, to speak the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in chains, that I may make it manifest, as I ought to speak. Walk in wisdom toward those who are outside, redeeming the time. Let your speech always be with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer each one.

 

The science Paul had in mind was gnosticism,  Christian Science is an example of that false religion.   CS teach that all is an illusion, sin, death and so on, do not exist.  I had one for a Hockey Coach.  He would tell anyone who got hurt that it was all in their minds.   One, day we noticed that he did not have protective geal on.  So, everyone but me, started doing slap shots at him, he got hit many times.   While he was down on the ice, they all, but me came over to him to say its all in your mind.  The coach let me go home on time and had all of them go through extra practice of the hard stuff.   

[BeyondET]

30 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

20 O Timothy! Guard what was committed to your trust, avoiding the profane and idle babblings and contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge— 21 by professing it some have strayed concerning the faith.

Grace be with you. Amen.

He is closing out the letter brother. The context overwhelmingly is maintaining purity of doctrine.

1 Timothy

4:6 If you instruct the brethren in these things, you will be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished in the words of faith and of the good doctrine which you have carefully followed. 

5:21 I charge you before God and the Lord Jesus Christ and the elect angels that you observe these things without prejudice, doing nothing with partiality.

6:3-5 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness, he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself.

9 But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition.

13 I urge you in the sight of God who gives life to all things, and before Christ Jesus who witnessed the good confession before Pontius Pilate, 14 that you keep this commandment without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ’s appearing.

To say that all Paul was concerned with was money is quite an oversimplification.

 

That's a more proper translation of verse 20. And I would agree about good doctrines.

You are correct Paul's concerns wasn't just about money.

Edited June 6, 2023 by BeyondET

[Daniel Marsh]

Paul and Gnosis
WRITTEN BY STANLEY E. PORTER AND DAVID I. YOON, EDS.

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/themelios/review/paul-and-gnosis/

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Paul and Gnosis
WRITTEN BY STANLEY E. PORTER AND DAVID I. YOON, EDS.

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/themelios/review/paul-and-gnosis/

Gnosticism
 

1 Timothy 6:20-21 ESV / 74 helpful votes 
O Timothy, guard the deposit entrusted to you. Avoid the irreverent babble and contradictions of what is falsely called “knowledge,” for by professing it some have swerved from the faith. Grace be with you.

Colossians 2:8 ESV / 58 helpful votes 
See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.

1 John 4:2 ESV / 49 helpful votes 
By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,

1 Corinthians 1:18-31 ESV / 35 helpful votes 
For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written, “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.” Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, ...

2 Timothy 3:16 ESV / 33 helpful votes 
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

1 John 4:3 ESV / 24 helpful votes 
And every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already.

John 14:6 ESV / 22 helpful votes 
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

1 John 2:22 ESV / 21 helpful votes 
Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son.

1 John 4:2-3 ESV / 20 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already.

https://www.openbible.info/topics/gnosticism

https://www.cgg.org/index.cfm/library/verses/id/49/gnosticism-verses.htm

https://reformedwiki.com/verses/gnosticism/niv

https://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/topical.show/RTD/cgg/ID/66/Gnosticism.htm

https://apostleswarning.wordpress.com/2016/05/01/the-false-teaching-confronted-by-paul-what-was-it-where-did-it-come-from-why-is-this-relevant-to-biblical-equality/

 

[Daniel Marsh]

where do we get our diamonds?