Do the saved have have bodies in heaven while awaiting THE resurrection?

[FreeGrace]

1 Cor 15 is mostly about the resurrection, when believers receive immortal glorified bodies when Jesus returns, per 1 Thess 4:17 and 2 Thess 2:1.  We know from 1 Cor 15:23 that ALL believers receive their resurrection body 'when He comes', and that is a reference to the Second Advent.  The point of this thread is to discuss how believers exist between physical death and the resurrection when they receive their glorified immortal body.

Some theologians teach that they have "interim" bodies, since Rev 5:9 is about "saints under the altar" speaking and Jesus' account of a rich and poor man who died, one went to Paradise to be with Abraham and the other went to Hades and was in torments, was thirsty and hot and wanted a drop of water.  So, it sounds like souls of the dead, whether saved or unsaved, have bodies.  Yet we know that their physical body stays ON the earth in graves, mostly.  So, do they have bodies, and more importantly, are these bodies in any way related to anything in 1 Cor 15?

Thanks.

[Mr. M]

For consideration.

2 Co 5:1-5 For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

Eph 2:4-6 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ by grace you have been saved, and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.

Col 3:1-4 If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God.  Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth. For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.

Hebrews 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect.

[FJK]

I think this may fall into one of those "mysteries of the kingdom of heaven" talked about in Matthew 13:11.

[ChristB4us]

After death, we are spirits until the resurrection as the firstfruits for abiding in Him as His disciples, or if not abiding in Him when we had died, then we would have to wait for the resurrection after the great tribulation as they that be Christ's at His coming.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

That is what makes a vessels unto dishonor is when a saved believer did not look to Him for help to discern and depart from iniquity but just followed the crowd or an errant church rather than trusting Jesus Christ as their personal Good Shepherd in following Him.

Look at the warning given to the church at Thyatira to repent or else be cast into the bed of the great tribulation. 

Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. 20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 

21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. 24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden. 25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

It is not a works salvation when those left behind are still saved, but missed out on the firstfruits of the resurrection.  Like Esau for something temporary ( a meal ), the prodigal son gave up his first inheritance for wild living and although he can never get it back, he will find that he is still son albeit as a vessel unto dishonor in Hsi House, a vessel of wood & earth, but still In His House..

[DeighAnn]

ARE those who have been SAVED and have followed Christ to heaven IN BODIES?  

Either we are going to simply BELIEVE THE WORDS OF GOD that we read with our own eyes or hear with our own ears OR we are going to let the 'wisdom of man' and/or false doctrines CONFUSE the simple straight forward issue.  

9And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?11And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.


SOME will say only the 'spirit/soul' without a body is resurrected YET every occurance of 'souls' in heaven who were resurrected from the earth HAVE BODIES.  I can not find a single INSTANT where anyone who has died and risen hasn't done so JUST LIKE CHRIST DID in a SPIRITUAL BODY.  

Reading the above if GOD ISN'T TRYING TO TRICK AND CONFUSE ANYONE we read of things that 'air/spirit/breath of life' COULD NEVER DO, and would never need.  

To CRY requires a body, a loud voice requires a body, robes are FOR bodies, bodies rest.  NOTHING in that points to ANYONE NOT HAVING A BODY.  Remember 

"For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints." 1 Corinthians 14:33 KJV

or if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck looks like a duck, it is a duck.  

 

[DeighAnn]

WHAT is a soul?  Body and Breath BECOMES a living soul.  So, MAN can never be ONE or TWO of the the three.  A body/image without spirit/soul is nothing more than dust.  A spirit without the body/soul is breath.  A soul without a body/spirit isn't anything at all.  

26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Image and likeness is a part of man

27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him (Christ - if you have seen Me you have seen the Father); male and female created he them.

To be sure

7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Both body and breath are what makes MAN a LIVING BEING/a soul.  Men are referred to as spirits, as souls and as men

Living souls have 2 bodies.  A natural and a spiritual.  An earthly one and a heavenly one.  A terrestrial one and a celestial one.  One for this realm one for the next realm.  

Adam sinned.  The penalty for sin is DEATH.  In the DAY Adam sinned, Adam died. He didn't make it to 1000 years.  

"But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." 2 Peter 3:8 KJV

So when a soul resurrects, that would be a living being.  As God created man  body and breath of life.  

[DeighAnn]

Are SOULS IMMORTAL?  Absolutely NOT and we can be SURE of that because

22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

APART FROM the tree of Life there is no 'immortality'. 

"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Matthew 10:28 KJV 

"And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do." Luke 12:4 KJV

"Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body." 1 Corinthians 6:13 KJV

14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

What about the LOF?  Does it end when that AGE ENDS?  

1And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

SURELY we all can agree that ETERNAL TORMENT IS PAIN.  

And what do we know about eternal torment?  7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

WHAT do our eyes see?  Sodom and Gomorrha ARE NO MORE.  There are no fires burning,  but LIKE THE FOG of the morning burns away, or the smoke going up just disappears into nothingness, so those who go into the lake of fire.  

AGAIN, AGES END and new ages come about.   What forever and ever is in an age ends when that age passes away.  THANK GOD.  

 

So, DO THOSE who resurrected up to heaven rise up in their spiritual bodies?  Yes, if you believe the words of God as written.

 

Was John being shown around heaven by 'a resurrected bodyless' spirit or by a living soul aka body and breath SPIRITUAL BODY STILL LIVING SOUL

8And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.

9Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

and THAT 'brethren of the PROPHETS' make that man a RESURRECTED SOUL in heaven and HE HAS FEET.  Which really shouldn't come as any big surprise since JESUS SAID

"For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven." Matthew 22:30 KJV

Christ is returning to the earth.  So there is a VERY SPECIFIC TIME FRAME in which 'souls' resurrect UP TO HEAVEN. Cause once Christ leaves heaven, HEAVEN IS coming to earth.  And GOD is coming to earth.  And the New Jerusalem is coming to earth.  

Do ANGELS have bodies?  Noahs flood certainly tells us they do, and they look very much like us they just have 'strange flesh' when on earth.  

And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;

2And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night.

3And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.

4But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:

5And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.

6And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,

7And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.

8Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

9And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door.

10But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door.

11And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.

12And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place:

13For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it.

14And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this place; for the LORD will destroy this city. But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in law.

15And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city.

16And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the LORD being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city.

17And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; look not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed.

6And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

So either believe what YOU YOURSELF CAN READ, that isn't difficult to follow, no big words, no twists in the way in which it is written, just straight forward, read it to your kid and he will understand it too

or believe what men TELL YOU IT REALLY MEANS with the big long winding explanations on why NOTHING you read means what YOU THINK IT MEANS. 
 

[NConly]

2 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

SOME will say only the 'spirit/soul' without a body is resurrected YET every occurance of 'souls' in heaven who were resurrected from the earth HAVE BODIES.  I can not find a single INSTANT where anyone who has died and risen hasn't done so JUST LIKE CHRIST DID in a SPIRITUAL BODY.

I agree with all in heaven have body and soul. possibly keeps the spirit not sure. see ECC below

Matt 10:28

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

In an earlier post you said

WHAT is a soul?  Body and Breath BECOMES a living soul.  So, MAN can never be ONE or TWO of the the three.

and in Ecc 12:7

Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

 If the spirit return to God that leave body and soul.

[DeighAnn]

10 hours ago, NConly said:

I agree with all in heaven have body and soul. possibly keeps the spirit not sure. see ECC below

Matt 10:28

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

In an earlier post you said

WHAT is a soul?  Body and Breath BECOMES a living soul.  So, MAN can never be ONE or TWO of the the three.

and in Ecc 12:7

Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

 If the spirit return to God that leave body and soul.

The word spirit is sometimes used for the 'whole' person.  Just like the word soul is.  Both of these words are used in different ways but the only way to truly understand that is to do a study on all of them.  Spirit is what 'animates' the body, so spirit would also imply body in that fashion.  

If spirit was used that way as in 'ONLY THE SPIRIT PART'  then how do we explain the souls under the altar?  Isn't that a hole new bag of tricks.  Now some are raised 'spirit' while others are raised 'souls'.   This is why we are to read the words of God precept on precept, precept on precept, verse by......and USE the wisdom and knowledge we receive along the way, THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH...

and why we are to BUILD upon the foundation laid rather than to DISSECT the foundation AND begin ANEW off of that.   


When I first started coming to the forums, I couldn't figure out WHY there was this push to separate the body from the soul.  No one would come out and tell me the purpose behind it.  Something I read yesterday FINALLY gave me that answer.  Eternal damnation.  If the LIVING BEING can be separated from the body then the 2nd death isn't a second death of a living being but just of a 'body' SO THAT eternal torment can be upon 'a soul' (although that is never one of the choices given and even the destruction of Sodom being as the example doesn't seem to matter). 

Some people just want to put forth that GOD isn't RIGHTEOUS AND JUST but petty and vindictive.  That would be like us torturing a dog FOREVER because in the 10 years after we created it, it didn't know it HAD to love and obey us or suffer forever, so it ran away to go be a part of another pack.  And wouldn't it be WORSE if we created it with that being the PROJECTED outcome for some of them?  Even the most stupid part of me knows that kind of right from wrong.




 

[DeighAnn]

And I realize THIS part may be too confusing for some to follow, their current beliefs making it IMPOSSIBLE to even SEE the possibility of a TRUTH

ADDED TO that, MY hard to follow way of writing/editing.  PLEASE try to remember, THE MAIN THING I AM trying to show IS how taking the LAST VERSES AND PUTTING THEM AT THE FRONT of everything CHANGES what is written, that is what I am trying to show.  AND please, try to remember, I do ALOT of editing to make things WAY SHORTER, that means sentences come out all funny sometimes.  I try to go back and fix them but then I end up making it all long again a vicious circle.   

BUT I am going to do it anyhow, for anyone else who might be wondering why NO MATTER how hard they try, the words of God never seem to make sense and there seem to be conflicts all over the place and they are just flat out tired of going round in circles..


Seriously, one of the most important set of verses to REMEMBER AND FOLLOW in the study of the Bible.  Most every problem I have run across has been because THIS WAS not followed.  I believe the 'belief' that we are NOT RAISED like Christ was, but we RETURN for a body 'later on' comes from this very thing, and I am setting out to prove it.  

9Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

We are to BUILD UPON THE FOUNDATIONS LAID, NOT to dissect them and bring about A NEW FOUNDATION.  All it does is cause confusion, sometimes changing everything.  The OBJECT is to get to GODS TRUTH not ours and that is done through HIS WORDS not our explanations.  Gods words explain Gods words.  It just doesn't come about without time and effort.  

One of the first FOUNDATIONS LAID for us is 'a body + breath of life BECOMES a living being'.  THE PARTS make the whole.  THAT is the IMAGE we were created in, and that is the image we die in, that is the image we are resurrected in, that is the image we will always have.  WE BEST NOT DIVIDE what GOD has laid down for our own personal doctrines.  

10For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.  12To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing:

yet they would not hear.  13But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little;
that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken. 14Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.  15Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:  16Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.  17Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.  18And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.  19From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.  20For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.

All THAT REALLY MATTERS through ALL THE WORDS OF GOD,

BUT IT REALLY REALLY MATTERS when it comes to this chapter.  If one can get this chapter straight and get rid of all the traditions that have crept in, so much of what what doesn't make sense and doesn't seem right will not to mention the many conflicts that will disappear, and you will find that once again 'what is written' will be what is meant.  The confidence that being saved REALLY DOES MEAN 'never dying' in any way and never being separated into 'parts' is GODS TRUTH, even though it isn't many mens.

The peace I have knowing that my eternal spiritual body comes from God in heaven and not from some 'CARCASS'  having been 'DECOMPOSING' in a corrupted earth NOT TO MENTION needing to be 'found' and 'cleansed?' for the rising up for my disembodied soul put back in it (IS THAT YET ANOTHER BIRTH?) to ONLY THEN be raised INCORRUPTIBLE, IN GLORY and IN POWER FULL on DOESN'T SEEM RIGHT on any level to me.  WHY if it takes just the blink of an eye, and we are on our way to rest, and there are no more 'works' for us to do DON'T WE just keep on living in a body.  We are going to heaven.  We have a heavenly body.  AND THEN GOD DOESN'T USE IT THEN

BUT brings billions of souls back to resurrect DUST? I have no idea how that ever got anywhere, ESPECIALLY SINCE there is NOT ONE WORD OF DEAD BODIES BEING RAISED.  ESPECIALLY SINCE there is NOT ONE WORD about 'living beings' being 'parted out'.  ESPECIALLY SINCE there is not one word about 'how a disembodied soul' finds/receives/ joines a resurrected body.  

And IF anyone remembers GOD NOT BEING PLEASED with Cains offering from the fruit OF THE GROUND, or how if one touches a dead body they are unclean for 7 days, or how they go back to dust....makes me wonder why some of those things don't make one ask 'am I still on the narrow path'?  

 

1 Corinth 15

THE WAY many are reading this chapter comes from NOT doing it GODS WAY as in Isaiah 28, by TAKING what is a 'mystery' concerning the day CHRIST RETURNS and APPLYING IT TO the whole chapter, making VOID THE WORDS OF GOD along the way which ends up changing, like, everything.  Along with that comes the NECESSITY for all the explanations of the man that STILL never seem right.



WHEN THESE 2 VERSES ARE REMOVED FROM THE END of the chapter AND are PLACED at THE BEGINNING,

EVERYTHING THAT FOLLOWS IS ALSO CHANGED.  (hence the precept on precept GOD tells those who want to learn HIS truth is the way it's done)

SO, taking those verses that SPEAK TO THE 2ND ADVENT and bringing them to the beginning

51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


ONE OF THE FIRST CHANGES COMES

12Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

YOU DON'T/CAN'T BELIEVE THERE PRESENTLY IS A RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD, LET ALONE PAST ONES,  EXCEPT OF COURSE FOR CHRIST, AND DON'T/CAN'T BELIEVE THERE WILL BE A RESURRECTION OF ANY 'WHOLE LIVING BEINGS' UNTIL THE DAY HE RETURNS.  

13But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

Yes, God performs miracles, but GOD works through LAWS.  EITHER the NEW COVENANT came about where we 'are saved' from death, the gift of SALVATION, or it didn't.  If it did, then UNDER GRACE through faith AND having received the gift of Salvation, even though our natural body dies, WE DON'T, we follow Him to go be where He is.  We go to heaven living on, not to the place of the dead...hell/the grave/death.
 

14And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

15Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

16For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

17And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

18Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

19If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

20But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE THERE IS A RESURRECTION FROM THE DEAD TILL THE LAST DAY, YOU CAN'T BELIEVE THERE WAS A RESURRECTION WHEN CHRIST RESURRECTED. 

YOU CAN'T BELIEVE THE GRAVES OPENED AND the BODIES of the saints were RAISED UP OUT OF THEM.

YOU CAN'T BELIEVE THAT took PLACE even though HE SAID IT WOULD WHEN HE READ THE ISAIAH SCROLL 'SETTING THOSE IN BONDAGE FREE', you are stuck believing IT WILL BE TAKING PLACE ON THE LAST DAY.  PROBLEM WITH THAT IS, He said it would take place THAT DAY.  Even if that meant 1000 years, that time has past.  

Also, YOU CAN'T BELIEVE WHEN HE ASCENDED HE LED THE CAPTIVITY CAPTIVE (THE OLD TEST 'ISRAEL' WHO DIED UNDER THE LAW, AND THE WHOMSOEVER WOULDS who heard the good news when He descended into hell)

YOU also CAN'T BELIEVE THAT HIS BLOOD SHED, BRINGING IN THE NEW COVENANT AND THEM HAVING THEIR SINS FORGIVEN AND BEING WASHED CLEAN MADE ANY DIFFERENCE AT ALL 

AND you have to believe THEY were 'left behind' in hell. and  DIDN'T RISE TO FOLLOW HIM TO THE PLACE OF THE LIVING but are still separated from God, at least 'the body' is. 

AND HOW DID HE TALK TO ANYONE IF THEIR BODIES WERE IN HELL BUT THEIR SOULS WERE IN HEAVEN?  Not sure if that is even the way to ask that.  If there is a separation of body and soul and only bodies are in hell, then WHAT was the point?  If they were in the grave both body and soul and only 'their spirit' rose up then WHY did the graves open?  ALL of these questions go away if we are just raised up in glory LIKE CHRIST WAS.  
 

21For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

Again, YOU DON'T/can't BELIEVE THERE CAME A RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD, because YOU BELIEVE 'ON THE LAST DAY' THERE WILL BE A RESURRECTION of everyone.  

WITH THAT, YOU CAN'T BELIVE JESUS WHEN HE SAID 'NEVER DIE' AS YOU MUST BELIEVE IN the DEATH 'OF THE BODY PART' at least, and UNTIL THAT LAST DAY, which would prove that without a BODY we are not WHOLE so that couldn't be truth. 

Remember this?  
17And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

18Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

THERE OBVIOUSLY WAS A RESURRECTION THAT EVERYONE WAS AWARE OF having ALREADY taken place or this would make no sense.  
...LIKE WHEN THE GRAVES WERE OPENED...

19Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

20But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

REMEMBER THIS BECAUSE THE GLORY OF ONE STAR IS DIFFERENT THAN ANOTHER IS COMING

21If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

 

 

22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

BUT NOT 'made alive' UNTIL THE LAST DAY, AT THE 2ND ADVENT.  So if you go to heaven without a body, ARE you ALIVE OR NOT?  

23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

AND YOU CERTAINLY CAN'T BELIEVE THAT EVERY MAN IS RESURRECTED IN HIS OWN ORDER, NOR BELIEVE THE GRAVES WERE OPENED AND THE BODIES OF THE SAINTS ROSE AND THE CAPTIVITY WAS LED TO 'THE FATHERS MANSION'.


WHAT YOU are forced to believe is  NO ONE is raised IN THEIR OWN ORDER, and NO ONE WHO SLEPT was raised.

BUT EVERYONE (OR THEIR BODIES) have to wait for His return

DOESN'T MATTER THERE IS THE SINGULAR RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD BOTH JUST AND UNJUST and THAT IS MADE VOID in favor of making it 2 resurrection at 2 separate times, rather than one of both as it is written.  

So, AS THAT ALSO GETS ALL TORN APART TO FIT, more of Gods word is made void
 

24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Which actually does come at the end of the Lords Day

25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

29Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

30And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?

31I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

32If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.

If we 'aren't us' but are rendered into parts, what is the point?

33Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.

34Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.


WITH WHAT BODY? 

Notice what ISN'T ASKED?  The question ISN'T do we rise WITH or WITHOUT our body, BUT IN WHAT BODY do we rise at the death or sowing of the natural body. 

THE POSSIBILITY OF NOT RISING IN A BODY ISN'T EVEN BROUGHT FORTH. DOESN'T THAT MAKE ANYONE THINK SOMETHING IS A MISS?  HOW MANY THINGS DOES IT TAKE THAT 'DON'T FIT' BEFORE ONE SAYS 

I GOT SOMETHING WRONG?   Is it pride or delusion or what?   
 

35But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

36Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

Hard as it is to believe, some people try to say this isn't about the natural bodies' death and have told me "You are just confused". 

But being put forth RIGHT here of all places, in the middle of the chapter on death and resurrection...I am at a loss as how it could be anything else. 
 

37And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

WHAT WE SOW is the 'as in Adam all die natural body'.  HOW WE HAVE LIVED THIS LIFE, OUR FAITH AND OUR DEEDS, IS WHAT GOES FORTH at THE DEATH OF THE FLESH, a seed with all our info. 

I believe GOD gives this to us in words easy to understand and descriptive of how THE TRANSFORMATION OR RESURRECTION FROM ONE REALM TO THE OTHER takes place.  A seed with everything about itself is 'QUICKENED' and that is WHAT God uses for the body 'the plant' we become, the body He gives us.   DOES it have to stay in the dust of the earth?  WELL, we know it only takes the twinkling of an eye to be transformed and surely that is 'the seed' process also.  

38But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

39All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

40There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

41There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

Who we are, what we do, HOW MUCH OF GODS TRUTH and not our own, MATTERS.  Lies and false doctrines will be burnt up...
and if that is all one has, they will stand naked.  SAVED but naked.  What a waste of time all this would be if all we dealt with was traditions handed down, traditions of man, and false doctrines.  How Satan must accuse. 
 
 HOW CAN ONE NEVER DIE AND BE DEAD AT THE SAME TIME? 


THIS IS SPEAKING TO THE SAVED BEING RESURRECTED, NOT THE UNSAVED GOING TO HELL. 

WE HAVE TO REMEMBER CHRIST WAS THE FIRST TO BE RESURRECTED 'OUT FROM THE DEAD' He wasn't raised up to heaven FROM his dead body, but from the place of the dead.  I believe that when He gave up the 'Spirit of Me' to the Father, it was the Holy Spirit part of Him, but that isn't written anywhere that I know of so just a personal opinion 

42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Before He died and was raised, the dead were raised up by GOD.  Once Christ Jesus blood was shed and the New Covenant brought forth, the raising of the dead came through Him.  

46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

JUST LIKE WE WERE BORN IN IMAGE, WE ALSO bear that same IMAGE IN HEAVEN.  THAT IS BODY/SPIRIT/SOUL as one.

50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

 THE SPIRITUAL BODY/SPIRIT/SOULS OF THE unsaved, THE DEAD, go to the place of the dead and being in death suffer corruption. 

THAT IS WHY THE DEAD WHO RESURRECT WHEN CHRIST RETURNS, CAN'T RISE UP TO IMMORTALITY. 

THE DEAD WHO RISE UP RISE UP at Christs return rise up 'incorruptible/as in spiritual body, but STILL MORTAL. 

DOESN'T MATTER IF THEY ARE 'JUST OR UNJUST' AT THAT TIME, they are the unsaved dead and so can't receive immortality.  They have to be judged before that can happen.   THEY HAVE until the end of THE LORDS DAY IN WHICH TO DO THE WORKS NECESSARY TO GET THEIR NAMES IN THE BOOK OF LIFE.  IF THEY DON'T THEN THEY GO INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE AND ARE CONSUMED.