I AM THAT I AM

[Your closest friendnt]

46 minutes ago, Truswell said:

1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.
 
2 Peter 1:1  Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:
 
Colossians 2:9-10 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority.
 
Hebrews 1:8  But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
 
Isa 47:4 As for our redeemer, the LORD of hosts is his name, the Holy One of Israel.
 
Isa 48:17 Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.
 
Isa 49:26 And I will feed them that oppress thee with their own flesh; and they shall be drunken with their own blood, as with sweet wine: and all flesh shall know that I the LORD, am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.
 
Isa 54:8 In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer.
 
Isa 60:16 Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings: and thou shalt know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.
 
Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
 
Revelation 22:13 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”
 
Titus 2:13 Waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

 "Behold, I (Jesus) am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to each one according to the merit of his deeds (earthly works, faithfulness). [Isa_40:10; Jer_17:10; Mat_16:27; 2Co_5:10] I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End [the Eternal One]." [Isa_44:6; Isa_48:12; Joh_10:30]
(Rev 22:12-13)

 

Thank you for the Bible quotes, from the New Testament from John and Peter and Paul and Hebrews that talk about Jesus but they do not address the equation "I AM=JESUS" stated in Bible reference to support that statement. 

And thank you for the bible reference from the Old Testament from Isaiah but also they do not support the I AM=JESUS equation. 

Isaiah 9:6 quoted below is making a distinction between the Lord God of Israel and the promised one to come who will be born from a woman and will know the time that when he will be born. There is a reference that he is a child and that will grow to be someone great and very unique and among them Prince of Peace, that sets him apart from the Lord God of Israel, to whom Isaiah was a prophet, Isaiah was not a prophet of the unborn one yet to be born or to come. Prince of Peace it does not subscribe to the moto of the Lord God of Israel who had a Covenant with the Israelites and subscribe an eye against an eye ......Prince of Peace is referring to the one promised to come to be born and the Lord God of Israel was never call "PRINCE OF PEACE". but an "eye against an eye" and he put it in the terms of his Covenant the Sinai Covenant. 

Isaiah 9:6 during the rein of the the Lord God of Israel who was also called the Father of Israel but not the Father of all the Nations of the world. He had made it clear that he is only the Father of the Israelites. 

Isaiah 9:6 gives the promise that the Everlasting Father is yet to come and this promise was given to the Israelites while the Lord God was their Father. And the promise is given that the one to be born yet will be the Everlasting Father of Israel indicating that there will be a change and the Israelites will have a New Father the Everlasting Father indicating that there will be no charges anymore and the Israelites if it is a reference to their Father Abraham or the reference to their Lord God. Their Lord God was never called the Prince of Peace...so the reference must be to both.

Jesus Christ is the Prince of Peace he cannot subscribe to the works of an eye against an eye of the violence of the Lord of an eye against an eye, who kill an mass his own people because of the terms in the Covenant with them and the book of Leviticus..and the ceremonial cleansing laws. 

Isaiah 9:6 Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name sall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace

[Truswell]

53 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Thank you for the Bible quotes, from the New Testament from John and Peter and Paul and Hebrews that talk about Jesus but they do not address the equation "I AM=JESUS" stated in Bible reference to support that statement. 

And thank you for the bible reference from the Old Testament from Isaiah but also they do not support the I AM=JESUS equation. 

Isaiah 9:6 quoted below is making a distinction between the Lord God of Israel and the promised one to come who will be born from a woman and will know the time that when he will be born. There is a reference that he is a child and that will grow to be someone great and very unique and among them Prince of Peace, that sets him apart from the Lord God of Israel, to whom Isaiah was a prophet, Isaiah was not a prophet of the unborn one yet to be born or to come. Prince of Peace it does not subscribe to the moto of the Lord God of Israel who had a Covenant with the Israelites and subscribe an eye against an eye ......Prince of Peace is referring to the one promised to come to be born and the Lord God of Israel was never call "PRINCE OF PEACE". but an "eye against an eye" and he put it in the terms of his Covenant the Sinai Covenant. 

Isaiah 9:6 during the rein of the the Lord God of Israel who was also called the Father of Israel but not the Father of all the Nations of the world. He had made it clear that he is only the Father of the Israelites. 

Isaiah 9:6 gives the promise that the Everlasting Father is yet to come and this promise was given to the Israelites while the Lord God was their Father. And the promise is given that the one to be born yet will be the Everlasting Father of Israel indicating that there will be a change and the Israelites will have a New Father the Everlasting Father indicating that there will be no charges anymore and the Israelites if it is a reference to their Father Abraham or the reference to their Lord God. Their Lord God was never called the Prince of Peace...so the reference must be to both.

Jesus Christ is the Prince of Peace he cannot subscribe to the works of an eye against an eye of the violence of the Lord of an eye against an eye, who kill an mass his own people because of the terms in the Covenant with them and the book of Leviticus..and the ceremonial cleansing laws. 

Isaiah 9:6 Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name sall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace

In view of that, I'm pulling out of this debate.

The beginning of John's Gospel makes it quite clear that Jesus is the pre-incarnate WORD who created heaven and earth.

John 6:48-51 also.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Truswell

[Your closest friendnt]

3 hours ago, Truswell said:

In view of that, I'm pulling out of this debate.

The beginning of John's Gospel makes it quite clear that Jesus is the pre-incarnate WORD who created heaven and earth.

John 6:48-51 also.

John wrote that the Word is the Creator of everything verse 3. 

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 

****to your second statement. 

The Word, the Creator the Lord God Almighty the God of Abraham and the Lord God of the Israelites repeatedly has spoken through his prophets and said that he is the Creator of all and man and the woman and he created them to have offsprings and at the appointed time as he had foretold he will leave everything he has to come in the form of man to be born in Bethleem as the Angels announced it to the Shepherds and the Archangel Gabriel announced it to Mary.

Beginning a new life and existence as a man like all of us just like any other Jewish man but anointed from God. Who was preordained to be the Savior. 

Note:John did not say these words that Jesus is the pre-incarnate WORD. 

He said the Word was made flesh and he points to Jesus Christ and he gives the testimony that Jesus was a man and they were his disciples and they knew his mother who gave birth to him and who nourish him from infancy. They gave the testimony that Jesus was like them a man with flesh and blood and he can get injured and died, that his death on the Cross was real. 

Thank you for the discussion, you are a good brother and a gentleman. 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Your closest friendnt

[RdJ]

On 10/16/2023 at 5:51 PM, Your closest friendnt said:

 

Where in the bible it is written that "I AM (JESUS)"? before we continue to discuss the questions that follows. 

We need first to examine if  the equation "I AM=JESUS" is expressly stated in the bible and if it is then the bible reference to it. And then we can proceed to discuss the question that follow. 

Someone also may say that "JESUS IS THE I AM" but the  "I AM is not JESUS", or the I AM is not JESUS and JESUS is not the I AM. 

To have a discussion that is relevant to quotes in the bible and the issue at hand. 

Isaiah 44

24 "I am the Lord, your savior

Isn't that what Yeshua means?

 

Verse 6

Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel,
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
‘I am the First and I am the Last;
Besides Me there is no God.

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, Renskedejonge said:

Isaiah 44

24 "I am the Lord, your savior

Isn't that what Yeshua means?

 

Verse 6

Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel,
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
‘I am the First and I am the Last;
Besides Me there is no God.

Thank you for the scripture. I am going to look in the context and get back to you. It's a passage from the Old Testament though. 

[Your closest friendnt]

3 hours ago, Renskedejonge said:

Isaiah 44

24 "I am the Lord, your savior

Isn't that what Yeshua means?

 

Verse 6

Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel,
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
‘I am the First and I am the Last;
Besides Me there is no God.

This passage is from the book of Isaiah and chapters 44 and it is about the Israelites worshiping the Idols. 

Their God the God of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and the Israelites he is telling the Israelites to come back to him and he has forgiven their sins on his own accord. 

[Truswell]

A Dire Warning

From Jude, servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James — to those who have been called by God, who live in the love of God the Father and the protection of Jesus Christ: May mercy, peace, and love be yours in full measure.

My dear friends, I was doing my best to write to you about the salvation we share when I felt the need to encourage you to fight for the faith God has given his people once and for all. Some godless people have slipped in unnoticed among us, persons who distort the message about the grace of our God to excuse their immoral ways. They reject Jesus Christ, our Master and Lord.

Long ago, the Scriptures predicted these deceivers would be condemned. For even though you know all this, I want to remind you of how the Lord once rescued the people of Israel from Egypt, but afterwards destroyed those who did not believe.

Remember, the angels who exceeded their proper authority, but abandoned their own dwelling place: they are bound with eternal chains in the darkness below, where God keeps them for that great Day on which they will be condemned.

Remember Sodom and Gomorrah, and the nearby towns, whose people acted as those angels did and indulged in sexual immorality and perversion: they suffer in eternal fire as a plain warning to all. In the same way, these people also have visions that make them sin against their own bodies. They despise God’s authority and insult the glorious beings above.

Not even the chief angel Michael did this. In his quarrel with the Devil, when they argued about who would have the body of Moses, Michael did not dare condemn the Devil with insulting words, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” But these people attack with insults anything they do not understand; and those things they know by instinct, like wild animals.

These are the very things that destroy them. How terrible for them! They have followed the same way as Cain. For the sake of money, they have given themselves over to the error Balaam committed. They have rebelled as Korah rebelled, and like him, they are destroyed.

With their shameless carousing, they are like dirty spots in your fellowship meals. They only care about themselves. They are like clouds carried along by the wind, but bringing no rain. They are like trees that bear no fruit, trees pulled up by the roots. They are completely dead. They are like wild waves of the sea, with their shameful deeds showing up like foam. They are like wandering stars, for whom God has reserved a place forever in the deepest darkness.

It was Enoch, the seventh direct descendant from Adam, who long ago prophesied this about them: “The Lord will come with many thousands of his holy angels to bring judgment on all, to condemn them all for the godless deeds they have performed, and for all the terrible words that godless sinners have spoken against him!”

These people are always grumbling and blaming others; they follow their evil desires; they brag about themselves and flatter others to get their way. But remember my friends, what you were told in the past by the apostles of our Lord, Jesus Christ. They said to you, “When the last days come, people will appear who will make fun of you, people who follow their own godless desires.”

These are the people who cause divisions, who are controlled by their natural desires, and who do not have the Spirit. But you, my friends, need to continually build yourselves up in our most sacred faith.

Pray in the power of the Holy Spirit, and keep yourselves in the love of God, as you wait for our Lord Jesus Christ in his mercy to give you eternal life. Show mercy toward those who have doubts; save others by snatching them out of the fire; and to others show mercy mixed with fear, but hate their very clothes, stained by their sinful lusts.

To him who can keep you from falling, and who can and will bring you faultless and joyful before his glorious presence — to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, might, and authority, from all ages past, and now, and forever and ever! Amen.

(Jude 1:1-25)

 

[Your closest friendnt]

11 hours ago, Truswell said:

A Dire Warning

From Jude, servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James — to those who have been called by God, who live in the love of God the Father and the protection of Jesus Christ: May mercy, peace, and love be yours in full measure.

My dear friends, I was doing my best to write to you about the salvation we share when I felt the need to encourage you to fight for the faith God has given his people once and for all. Some godless people have slipped in unnoticed among us, persons who distort the message about the grace of our God to excuse their immoral ways. They reject Jesus Christ, our Master and Lord.

Long ago, the Scriptures predicted these deceivers would be condemned. For even though you know all this, I want to remind you of how the Lord once rescued the people of Israel from Egypt, but afterwards destroyed those who did not believe.

Remember, the angels who exceeded their proper authority, but abandoned their own dwelling place: they are bound with eternal chains in the darkness below, where God keeps them for that great Day on which they will be condemned.

Remember Sodom and Gomorrah, and the nearby towns, whose people acted as those angels did and indulged in sexual immorality and perversion: they suffer in eternal fire as a plain warning to all. In the same way, these people also have visions that make them sin against their own bodies. They despise God’s authority and insult the glorious beings above.

Not even the chief angel Michael did this. In his quarrel with the Devil, when they argued about who would have the body of Moses, Michael did not dare condemn the Devil with insulting words, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” But these people attack with insults anything they do not understand; and those things they know by instinct, like wild animals.

These are the very things that destroy them. How terrible for them! They have followed the same way as Cain. For the sake of money, they have given themselves over to the error Balaam committed. They have rebelled as Korah rebelled, and like him, they are destroyed.

With their shameless carousing, they are like dirty spots in your fellowship meals. They only care about themselves. They are like clouds carried along by the wind, but bringing no rain. They are like trees that bear no fruit, trees pulled up by the roots. They are completely dead. They are like wild waves of the sea, with their shameful deeds showing up like foam. They are like wandering stars, for whom God has reserved a place forever in the deepest darkness.

It was Enoch, the seventh direct descendant from Adam, who long ago prophesied this about them: “The Lord will come with many thousands of his holy angels to bring judgment on all, to condemn them all for the godless deeds they have performed, and for all the terrible words that godless sinners have spoken against him!”

These people are always grumbling and blaming others; they follow their evil desires; they brag about themselves and flatter others to get their way. But remember my friends, what you were told in the past by the apostles of our Lord, Jesus Christ. They said to you, “When the last days come, people will appear who will make fun of you, people who follow their own godless desires.”

These are the people who cause divisions, who are controlled by their natural desires, and who do not have the Spirit. But you, my friends, need to continually build yourselves up in our most sacred faith.

Pray in the power of the Holy Spirit, and keep yourselves in the love of God, as you wait for our Lord Jesus Christ in his mercy to give you eternal life. Show mercy toward those who have doubts; save others by snatching them out of the fire; and to others show mercy mixed with fear, but hate their very clothes, stained by their sinful lusts.

To him who can keep you from falling, and who can and will bring you faultless and joyful before his glorious presence — to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, might, and authority, from all ages past, and now, and forever and ever! Amen.

(Jude 1:1-25)

 

We are in the NEW COVENANT. 

 

[Truswell]

31 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

We are in the NEW COVENANT. 

 

Then why teach Old Testament traditions?

.

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, Truswell said:

Then why teach Old Testament traditions?

.

You mean to say some people teach old testament traditions. Just because you asked. What are those traditions. They cannot judged anyone who does not keep them. 

In the Sinai Covenant it was mandatory to follow their religious yearly Calendar year after year. And they were judged by that.