Bro.Tan Posted August 13, 2023 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 693 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 120 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/22/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 13, 2023 At this time new Jerusalem, the place that Jesus went to prepare, will come down from God out of heaven. Jesus never promised to take us up to this place, "and if I go and prepare a place for you I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also" (St. John 14:3). Therefore, after Jesus returns and rules for a thousand years, the place that he went to prepare will be seen "...coming down from God out of heaven, prepared-as a bride adorned for her husband" (Revelation 21:2). We won't ever get to heaven, but heaven will get to us. Yes, the kingdom of heaven will be right here on the earth, because God wants his will to be done in earth as it is in heaven. With all of this evidence of God's kingdom being on the earth, why do so many people believe they are going to heaven? Many people have misunderstood some of Paul's writings (II Peter 3:15-16) and they simply disregard the other scriptures. For instance, what people call "the rapture" is merely the second coming of Jesus. This will not take place before the great tribulation, as commonly taught, but after it. At the sound of the seventh trumpet the dead in Christ, living saints will meet the Lord in the air, But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (I Thessalonians 4:13-17) as he returns to establish his kingdom. The sounding of the trumpet lets us know that this "so-called rapture" is after the tribulation, "Immediately after the tribulation...they shall see the son of man coming in the clouds of heaven...and he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet..." (Matthew 24:29:31). Many people teach that the dead saints, such as Elijah, are already in heaven. If this were true then they wouldn't have to be raised from the dead to meet Jesus in the air when he returns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted August 13, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 600 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,388 Content Per Day: 7.55 Reputation: 28,137 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 13, 2023 9 hours ago, Bro.Tan said: The element being burned up is going to happen before the 1000 yrs period. Let's go into Rev 6: 12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 and the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? This time is during the end of the great tribulation when Jesus is about to make his second coming. Let's look at this again in Matthew 24: 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. short version.......So after the war, when man try to fight God with his saints and angels. The earth will be repair and order will be restored. Then come the 1000 yrs period. I personally don't see that as the same as everything being burned up making it necessary for a new heaven and a new earth and the new city of Jerusalem coming down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bro.Tan Posted August 13, 2023 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 693 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 120 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/22/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 13, 2023 5 hours ago, other one said: I personally don't see that as the same as everything being burned up making it necessary for a new heaven and a new earth and the new city of Jerusalem coming down. Well, I read you that event all over the Bible, including the old Testament and this event is only going to happen one time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bro.Tan Posted August 13, 2023 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 693 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 120 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/22/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 13, 2023 The entire bible changes if the saints were in heaven, even eliminating the first resurrection …And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (Revelation 20:4-6). The bible speaks of three heavens….It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. (2 Corinthians 12:1-2), so which one would the saints go to anyway? Jesus was talking about the third heaven when he said, "...no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven.." This means Elijah or no other man (except Jesus) has went up to the heaven where the Father's throne is at. Many of us, including Elijah, have been transported through the second heaven, which is the sky. This heaven is called the firmament, where airplanes and birds fly. The first heaven is the earth. This is where Jesus will establish his heavenly kingdom. Jesus commanded us to preach the gospel of the kingdom and pray for its fulfillment. It is impossible to preach the Gospel of Jesus without ever preaching about his future kingdom. Why raise the dead if they are already in heaven? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bro.Tan Posted August 14, 2023 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 693 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 120 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/22/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 14, 2023 Everything, including our hope, is tied into this gospel message. If we choose to believe contrary to the gospel then we are believing a lie. Remember, "the truth shall make you free." There's only one gospel! "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed" (Galatians 1:8). This is serious business, so let us preach and pray "THY KINGDOM COME!" This is the gospel of Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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