How did these get in the Bible???

[JimmyB]

It is nonsense for anyone to claim that all the popular preachers say that it's not possible to lose your salvation even if one were to live in sin.  Where is the evidence for such a claim?

[JimmyB]

2 hours ago, Starise said:

Let's use an example of a Chriatian man who was saved young and almost never got into trouble of any kind. This man royally slips up one day. We don't need to tell what he did, except to say it was very bad.

He is fully aware he was bad and intends to confess his sin, but before he can do that he dies.

Where does he go?

To heaven.  a) His sin was a mistake and b) he intended to confess it.  God looks at the heart; He doesn't need to hear the words.

1 Samuel 16:7, "But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him, for the Lord does not see as mortals see; they look on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.”

[other one]

25 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

Anyone who teaches this is blowing smoke.

Mark 1:14 Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.”

Repenting and believing are certainly things to be done.

What did John say about it?

Quote

because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 

 

[Starise]

The saved who might sin, don't like sin, and therefore are being worked out of it.

The lost like sin and are trying to make excuses for it. Make no mistake, sin can be enjoyable for "a season". It's all temporary and self destructive though, harming  ourselves and others.

If a person can go on sinning without a care in the world, and is willing to overlook anything that could possibly correct their fallen condition, you are in for a very scary ride after you draw your last breath. This is the reality of it.

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

3 hours ago, other one said:

Unfortunately, all that I have read and heard also don't tell people how to be really saved. Thus the quote from Jesus, "depart from me for i never knew you."

The Bible speaks of some that turn away from the faith to follow doctrines of demons.

So it's possible to actually get saved... but fall away, otherwise these warnings are lies and somebody snuck them in to the Lord's canon when He wasn't looking?

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

2 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Repenting and believing are certainly things to be done.

Well all the calvinist fellows will say you support a works based Gospel.

They claim repenting and believing are works which is trying to earn right standing with the Lord.

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

2 hours ago, JimmyB said:

It is nonsense for anyone to claim that all the popular preachers say that it's not possible to lose your salvation even if one were to live in sin.  Where is the evidence for such a claim?

Go start watching them on Utube.

Email them and ask them if you were born again and just couldn't quit sinning would you go to Heaven anyway and they're say yes!

Charles Stanly has video on utube where he says all sin including murder, adultery, idolatry , etc have already been forgiven and you'd still go to Heaven even if you were doing these things.

Of course they say you should not sin.  But when corned with the question of would someone who had been born again were to tall back and live in sin would they still go to Heaven and they would say yes they would still go to Heaven anyway.

OSAS thought comes out of reformed theology and calvinism where they claim they are "elect" and cannot possibly go to hell even if they lived like the devil.

This is nothing but phony baloney doctrine when compared to scripture.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Stan Murff

[other one]

2 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

The Bible speaks of some that turn away from the faith to follow doctrines of demons.

So it's possible to actually get saved... but fall away, otherwise these warnings are lies and somebody snuck them in to the Lord's canon when He wasn't looking?

I don't disagree that it is possible Stan, but I know so many People who consider themselves saved and can't be. So, that is why I push so hard for these conversations to include what salvation really is.

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

Can't be as in they aren't calvinist so they could not possibly be "elect"???

To the calvinist, one is simply chosen by God and if they try to stopping sinning then that is works based which could mean they were not really elect after all and God was just messing with them to think they were but in the end they are hell bound and they cannot get saved because Jesus only provided limited atonement and they got the short end of the stick and are hell bound.

It would be funny if it weren't so sad.  It's like a religious comedy skit or something

[Tristen]

12 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

And... if one expects mercy from the Lord they will need to confess their sin and FORSAKE their sin.

You are fluffing around the edges of a conversation using ambiguous, religious terminology. This is why I earlier asked you, "to be more specific about what it means to be "willingly and knowingly living in sin"." You did not respond.

Here, I would ask you what you mean when you say, "FORSAKE their sin"? Do you mean to make a decision to turn from sin and follow after the Spirit, or are you advocating the hardline position that, if a Christian ever sins after knowing the action to be sin, they have lost their salvation?

If you mean the latter, then we have all lost our salvation - including you - and the sacrifice of Jesus was a waste.

 

12 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

Knowingly living in sin is very bad and that's not "still in the b battle" but instead is having surrounded to the desires of the flesh (sin) and choosing sin over the Lord.

Again, "Knowingly living in sin" is a vague phrase. In some instances, I would agree with you, but in many instances using the same phraseology, I would disagree.

I am happy for you if you have lived a life that has been so free from the entanglements between flesh and sin, that you don't understand that some (most) sins require a process to outwardly overcome them. If all you've ever had to do to be free from sin is be given knowledge of that sin, then I am glad for you.

The downside of such a life is that you lack enough life experience to understand what it means to be in the struggle against sin. Your perspective is limited, and therefore comes across as judgmental and condemning. Those sincerely in the fight against sin do not need another "accuser" (Revelation 12:10), they need the grace, love and mercy found at the cross.

 

12 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

Hebrews 10:26

For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins

 

*If we knowing and willing continue in sin, Jesus’ sacrifice on the Cross is no longer applicable and there will be no new sacrifice for sin forthcoming other than what Jesus has already done at the Cross.  One must cease from sin for the work of Christ to be applicable to them.

You have Decontextualized this verse - and thus failed to comprehend its true intent.

Hebrews 10:26 is not talking about any "sin" in general. There is nothing in the context about general sins of the flesh.

This verse is speaking to the specific "sin" of reverting back to the system of animal sacrifices required under Jewish Law - and thereby rejecting the only sacrifice that can wash our sins away. That is the context (topic and purpose) of Hebrews 10. 

Paul expresses a similar idea in his letter to the Galatians:

Galatians 2:17-19
“But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not! For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God.

 

12 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

Galatians 5:4

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

 

*This indicates that these folks were born again and they had "fallen from grace" because they turn away from trusting in Jesus for their salvation.

More specifically, "because" they were "trusting" in their own efforts to not sin according to the standard of Law, rather than being freely perfected by the grace of Christ.