Rapture: to be or not to be?

[Babbler]

On 8/23/2023 at 8:04 AM, The Light said:

Correct He is not coming twice.

How many times does He come.

1. He comes for the dead in Christ, the barley harvest,

2. He comes for the alive believers that remained, the wheat harvest. The Lord Himself comes.

3. He comes for the 144,000 first fruits that are redeemed from the earth.

Revelation 14

And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4. He comes for the harvest at the 6th seal, when He sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth.

Matthew 24

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

5. He comes with the armies of heaven at the end of wrath.

So you are correct, He doesn't come twice. At the minimum it's 5 times.

And those are the last day.

[Montana Marv]

2 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

False.

The AoD is not placed in Jerusalem till the day of the Lord.It is the daily sacrifice that is abolished 3 1/2 years before the end.

The saints in Israel are persecuted by the unbelieving Jews for 3 1/2 years.The saints are imprisoned and killed by all the people you claim are saved on the day of the Lord.

 

Daniel 11:33-35

Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed.

When they fall, they will receive a little help, and many who are not sincere will join them.
And some of the wise will fall victim to persecution. In this way, they will be refined and cleansed and made pure until the time of the end, for the appointed time is still to come.

 

You believe God is going to save them which worship the Israeli government and take it's mark and kill the christians there.

 

 

It is on the day of the Lord that the AoD is placed in Jerusalem and it is on that day that the unbelieving Jews who have killed the christians in Israel flee.

They are fleeing on this verse.

Zech 14

⁵ And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

 

 

 

Daniel 9:27 - He will confirm a covenant with many for One Seven.  In the middle of the  Seven (Week) he will put an end to sacrifice and offering.  And on a wing of the temple he will set up the A/D until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

Matt 24:15 - So when you see standing in the holy place the A/D spoken by the prophet Daniel; let the reader understand - then those in Judea are to flee to the mountains.

I see a midweek A/D has Daniel has stated.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[The Light]

10 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

I understand revelation 20 and understand who is being discussed there.

Doesn't change the fact that the beasts kingdom is consumed before the saints recieve it.Everyone who commits iniquity in Christs kingdom will be consumed or will go into captivity at his coming.Then the saints are given the kingdom.

Let me paste @Montana Marv quote as it explained everything. 

"Those who have received the MOTB and worshiped the beast die either before Armageddon or at/in Armageddon.  They are not consumed; for the Birds of the air eat the flesh of horses and men.  The blood reaches the height of a bridle or 3 to 5 feet.

Yet, those who are not partakers (do not die) in Armageddon and go into the Mill will be subjects of the Kingdom, they will not reign in the Kingdom.  Those who reign must have subjects to reign over. These same individuals must go up year after year during the Feast of Tabernacles to worship the Lord Almighty.  For Christ to rule "with a rod of iron", He must have individuals who need to be retrained in their thinking and habits.  These are those who came out from the 70th Week.

Only A/C and the False Prophet are cast into the LOF before the Mill.  All others go into the LOF following the GWTJ later after the Mill.

In Christ

Montana Marv"

[The Light]

10 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

The occupants of Sodom were destroyed.Only Lot and his daughters remained on earth.

The fire came and  took the inhabitants of Sodom away.If you can provide proof that the fire didnt remove them from.the land of the living ,I would like to see it.

Or if you can provide scriture that shows the flood didn't take all the sinners away ,I'd like to read about it.

One is destroyed and one left before the destruction came. You can read it how you want or you can read it correctly.

[The Light]

10 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

What do you think Heb 9:28 refers to?  Jesus WILL APPEAR "the second time".  Not real difficult to understand.  

So, are you accusing me of adding to or taking away from Scripture?  I can't figure your comment out.

When Heb 9:28 was written, Jesus had already come the FIRST time.  So the author was clearly referring to the SECOND time Jesus would come.  

I'm saying when you quoted the scripture you left out.......... and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time

When He comes, He appears to those who look for Him. He does not appear to everyone. The rapture will be in secret.

Song of Solomon

8 The voice of my beloved! behold, he cometh leaping upon the mountains, skipping upon the hills.

9 My beloved is like a roe or a young hart: behold, he standeth behind our wall, he looketh forth at the windows, shewing himself through the lattice.

10 My beloved spake, and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away.

 

[The Light]

10 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Who says that is a "coming" of the Lord?

The Word says it. Didn't you read that Jesus was on Mount Sion with the 144,000 and they were redeemed from the earth?

10 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

There is nothing in this context that shows Jesus coming in the clouds.  It does have Him STANDING on Mt Sion.

Here is the harvest with Jesus in the clouds

Rev 14

14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

10 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

 Do you think Rev 14 is sequential in the book?  I don't.  It's a look-see ahead at the Second Advent when He is ON THE GROUND.

No. No. No. It is a look behind, not ahead. You have to understand what you are reading to understand this.

When you are reading Revelation 11 we see this verse.

Revelation 11

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Think about what you are reading. The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord. That tells you that Christ has set up His kingdom on earth. That tells you that Armageddon has already happened, and the Millennial kingdom is set up.

When you are reading Revelation 13 and 14 you are reading events that occur in the 1st 6 seals. When Jesus comes to Mount Sion for the 144,000 first fruits this happens in the 1st four seals and likely by the 1st seal. How do we know we are back in the seals? The following verse is the Great Tribulation. The Great Tribulation is the 5th seal.

Revelation 14

13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Then Jesus comes for the harvest. This occurs at the 6th seal as MARKED BY THE SIGNS OF THE SUN, MOON AND STARS. See Matthew 24 which is also MARKED BY THE SIGNS OF THE SUN, MOON AND STARS.

The coming of Jesus happens immediately after the tribulation and before the wrath of God. In Matthew 24 it is marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars.

Matthew 24

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 6

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

These verses tell you that Jesus comes at the 6th seal, immediately after the tribulation and before the wrath of God. Just like the verse in Revelation 14 shows that the coming of Jesus is before the wrath of God.

Revelation 14

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

10 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

And the last part of the chapter is about God's wrath being poured out at the battle of Armageddon, which occurs at the end of the Tribulation.

There's no rapture here at all.  Or anywhere else.

There is a rapture at the 6th seal as marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars. It can be seen in Matthew 24 and can be seen in Revelation 14.

Revelation reads like Genesis 7. We get three views of Noah loading the animals and three views of the flood. There is only one Noah and one flood. When you are reading Revelation you get two views of the tribulation........Revelation 6 and then again in Revelation 13 and 14. And then there are two views of the wrath of God. Revelation 8, 9,10 and 11 and then again in Revelation 15 and 16.

[Shilohsfoal]

7 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

Daniel 9:27 - He will confirm a covenant with many for One Seven.  In the middle of the  Seven (Week) he will put an end to sacrifice and offering.  And on a wing of the temple he will set up the A/D until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

Matt 24:15 - So when you see standing in the holy place the A/D spoken by the prophet Daniel; let the reader understand - then those in Judea are to flee to the mountains.

I see a midweek A/D has Daniel has stated.

In Christ

Montana Marv

The verse you just quoted says in the middle of the week ,he will put an end to sacrifice.

The daily sacrifice is not the abomination of desolation

 

[Shilohsfoal]

7 hours ago, The Light said:

Let me paste @Montana Marv quote as it explained everything. 

"Those who have received the MOTB and worshiped the beast die either before Armageddon or at/in Armageddon.  They are not consumed; for the Birds of the air eat the flesh of horses and men.  The blood reaches the height of a bridle or 3 to 5 feet.

Yet, those who are not partakers (do not die) in Armageddon and go into the Mill will be subjects of the Kingdom, they will not reign in the Kingdom.  Those who reign must have subjects to reign over. These same individuals must go up year after year during the Feast of Tabernacles to worship the Lord Almighty.  For Christ to rule "with a rod of iron", He must have individuals who need to be retrained in their thinking and habits.  These are those who came out from the 70th Week.

Only A/C and the False Prophet are cast into the LOF before the Mill.  All others go into the LOF following the GWTJ later after the Mill.

In Christ

Montana Marv"

While you quote marv I will quote the word of God.

Revelation 14

⁹ And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

¹⁰ The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

¹¹ And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

 

 

Now ,seeing that you are unfamiliar with the lake of fire and don't know what it consists of,let me quote the word of God so you will know what two elements the lake of fire consists of.

 

Revelation 19:20

And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
 

 

 

 

The smoke of their torment will ascend up for ever and ever.The lake itself is the fire and brimstone those who take the mark of the beast are tormented with.

 

Edited August 27, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[Shilohsfoal]

7 hours ago, The Light said:

One is destroyed and one left before the destruction came. You can read it how you want or you can read it correctly.

I've read it correctly.Your the one who is not.

 

³⁸ For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

³⁹ And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

 

This is about them who were eating and drinking and what they were doing before the flood came and took them all away.

You read it wrong when you say Noe is them.Noe is not them who were taken away by the flood.

 

 

 

In recent flooding ,people in las Vegas were taken away by the flood there.

 

Police search for missing after floodwaters wash multiple people away in Las Vegas canals

https://www.foxweather.com/weather-news/missing-people-flood-las-vegas-nevada

 

 

 

[Shilohsfoal]

7 hours ago, The Light said:

One is destroyed and one left before the destruction came. You can read it how you want or you can read it correctly.

Read it correctly.

The flood came and took.them away.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/17/weather/pennsylvania-floods-northeast-storms/index.html