Rapture: to be or not to be?

[Montana Marv]

13 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

A new earth and a new heaven does not mean it's a different earth and a different heaven.There is only one earth and mars and Venus isn't it.

Abraham and his seed recieve the land of Canaan for an everlasting possession.Not a temporary one.

That's why they keep it cleaned up.Because it's theirs forever.

You need to get your head out of the sand.  Once Death and Hades has been cast into the LOF, the New Earth and the New Heavens are formed.  The New Jerusalem comes down from heaven to this New Earth.  It is ALL clean.  No cleanup is necessary...  But you say a cleanup detail will be needed in the New Jerusalem forever.

This some new doctrine of yours.  God cannot do the work.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[NConly]

1 hour ago, R. Hartono said:

The church Will be on earth otherwise who will spread the Gospel. But Until the Harvest where the wise virgins are gathered to the wedding of the Lamb. 

Night Will come where nobody can work.

does that imply no electricity?

[Shilohsfoal]

15 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

You need to get your head out of the sand.  Once Death and Hades has been cast into the LOF, the New Earth and the New Heavens are formed.  The New Jerusalem comes down from heaven to this New Earth.  It is ALL clean.  No cleanup is necessary...  But you say a cleanup detail will be needed in the New Jerusalem forever.

This some new doctrine of yours.  God cannot do the work.

In Christ

Montana Marv

So you don't believe God will give Abraham and his seed the land of Canaan as an everlasting possession?

 

Genesis 17:8

The whole land of Canaan, where you now reside as a foreigner, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God.”

 

Since you don't believe God will keep his promises,and will Insted destroy all the land of Canaan which he promised to give Abraham ,do you also believe God will not keep any other promises he has made?

[Montana Marv]

2 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

So you don't believe God will give Abraham and his seed the land of Canaan as an everlasting possession?

Yes, but no cleanup is needed for them..All is New.  No burying of the dead for 7 months in the New Jerusalem, No burning of weapons of war for 7 years in the New Jerusalem. No cleanup is needed for anyone who will reside in the New Jerusalem. Perfectly, Perfect for eternity.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Shilohsfoal]

25 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

You need to get your head out of the sand.  Once Death and Hades has been cast into the LOF, the New Earth and the New Heavens are formed.  The New Jerusalem comes down from heaven to this New Earth.  It is ALL clean.  No cleanup is necessary...  But you say a cleanup detail will be needed in the New Jerusalem forever.

This some new doctrine of yours.  God cannot do the work.

In Christ

Montana Marv

PS

Ezekiel described new Jerusalem AFTER the clean up.Not before.

Just so you know.

 

Ezekiel 39

¹² And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.

 

 

The river of life which John saw issue from New Jerusalem was seen by Ezekiel 8 chapters after Gog is buried.

 

Ezekiel 47:12

¹² Fruit trees of all kinds will grow on both banks of the river. Their leaves will not wither, nor will their fruit fail. Every month they will bear fruit, because the water from the sanctuary flows to them. Their fruit will serve for food and their leaves for healing.”

[Shilohsfoal]

13 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

Yes, but no cleanup is needed for them..All is New.  No burying of the dead for 7 months in the New Jerusalem, No burning of weapons of war for 7 years in the New Jerusalem. No cleanup is needed for anyone who will reside in the New Jerusalem. Perfectly, Perfect for eternity.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Ezekiel didn't see new Jerusalem till after they have cleaned everything up.

Don't put the cart before the horse.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 31, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[DeighAnn]

Isaiah 61

1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD upon Me because has anointed Yhvh Me
to preach good tidings to the poor
He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted the brokenhearted
to proclaim to the captives liberty and to the opening of the prison

2 To proclaim the year acceptable of Yhvh

(and THAT is where Jesus stopped reading saying THAT DAY that part of the prophecy would be fulfilled BUT what do the following verses tell us? 
They tell us what will happen when He returns....AS LORD OF LORDS AND KING OF KINGS for)
 

and the day of vengeance of our God to comfort all mourners

3 to console mourners in Zion to give them beauty for ashes the oil of joy for mourning the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness that may be called they oaks of righteousness the planting of the Yhvh that He may be glorified

4 And they shall rebuild the ruins old the desolations former they shall raise up and they shall repair the cities ruined the desolations of many generations

5  And shall stand Strangers and feed your flocks and the sons of the foreigner [Shall be] your plowmen and your vinedressers

6 But you the priests of Yhvh shall be named the servants of our God.  They shall call you the riches of the Gentiles.  You shall eat and in their glory you shall boast

7 Instead of your shame double [honor] and [instead of] confusion they shall rejoice in their portion.  Therefore in their land double they shall possess, joy everlasting shall be theirs

8 For I Yhvh love justice I hate robbery for burnt offering and I will direct their work in truth and covenant an everlasting will make* with them

(*Verb - Qal - Imperfect - first person common singular The Hebrew imperfect denotes incomplete action, whether in the past, present, or future...HAD THIS TAKEN PLACE IN THE PAST (as some claim) then it would have been a completed action) 



 

9 And shall be known among the Gentiles

their descendants and their offspring among the people

ALL who see them shall acknowledge them

that they [are] the posterity [whom] has blessed Yhvh. 

Released from the Assyrian captivity, sifted amongst the heathen, and thinking themselves as the HEATHEN, gone into the world to become many nations, a great nation, a company of nations, not knowing their own heritage, but as lost sheep who hear HIS VOICE, and through hearing THE GOOD NEWS find themselves BACK in the good graces with their GOD, THE WORLD being blessed through GODS PLAN of Salvation 

the CHURCH, the TEMPLE of God, Israel.  


IF you DON'T read the BEGINNING of the book...how can you possibly figure out the end?

YOU ARE NOT WORKING off of the FOUNDATION LAID BY GOD,

you are LIVING your own PERSONAL RELIGION and not GODS TRUTH.   

The BEST you can hope for is a 'semi-educated' GUESS based upon SOME OF THE FACTS, but not all of them.    

And those who have studied the OT, seeked out the truths, and have received the 'revelations' only THOSE WORDS can PROVIDE, through labor and patience,
clearly see those who have not, no matter what they may claim.  



"Behold, the LORD hath proclaimed unto the end of the world, Say ye to the daughter of Zion, Behold, thy salvation cometh; behold, His reward is with Him, and His work before him." Isaiah 62:11 KJV

How does this give us the SEASON?   Because of what happens to THY SALVATION, when the end of the millennium comes


 

24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28And when all things shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him that put all things under him,


that God may be all in all.

And why does THAT MATTER? Because

THERE IS NO SON, NO SAVIOUR, IN THE THIRD HEAVEN AND EARTH those 'jobs' have been completed and no longer needed.  


THERE IS 
 

And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

23And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

24And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

24And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

25And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.

26And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.

27And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

1And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

2In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

3And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

4And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

5And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

6And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.

7Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

So, if there is a SAVIOUR, A SON OF GOD, A KING ETC, it can't be speaking to the NEW HEAVEN AND EARTH.  






"Woe unto him that buildeth his house by unrighteousness, and his chambers by wrong; that useth his neighbour's service without wages, and giveth him not for his work;" Jeremiah 22:13 KJV



The words and the plan of Salvation of GOD is super simple.  What is hard is getting rid of EVERYTHING that has been PURPOSELY put in the way, purposely making crooked that what is straight.  


God picked a bloodline out of the nations through which He would give HIS WORDS and through which He would work His plan. 

The plan they had to follow was a PHYSICAL ONE that was able/supposed to lead one to a spiritual birth.  Desires of the flesh and the evil in the world made that too hard

The Messiah came and Gods plan continues on. 

There is a 'proving' and a failing of the Jews.  

There is an earthquake, a darkening of the sun, and an new covenant,

no longer PHYSICAL, it is of the 'heart and mind', spiritual applies to everyone the same, through Grace.


At the next appointed time, the sun goes into mourning, the moon blood, another season of PROVING, aka Satans trib, Daniels last week.      

At the end of that season, an earthquake, the sun darkens as does the moon (can't compare to the brightness of the return of Christ)  and Satan is put away.   THIS IS NOT THE 'NEW HEAVEN AND NEW EARTH' it is plain to see because there will be no 'strangers', no sea in the NEW.  

But, it is the beginning of a new day.  A new realm with everyone in new bodies.  New bodies doesn't MEAN IMMORTAL.  Just 'heavenly' because the kingdom of heaven has come to the earth.  This final day IS for those who DID NOT receive their immortality THROUGH FAITH. Their 'way' to salvation is going to be through WORKS.
 
So when Christ returns He brings with Him all those of the 1st resurrection (and to whom the alive and remaining join, THE MYSTERY of 'not all will sleep...' fulfilled). 

For a thousand years Gods Truth will be told, lived and worked. 

The very beginning includes lots of clean up, re building, and dividing of sheep and goats (the dead) and law giving.   

The Lords Day also must end with A SEASON of Tribulation in which to PROVE those who have been WORKING to get their names in the book of life 
so comes the release of Satan and his going out to deceive one last time 


which ends with the GREAT WHITE THRONE judgment, the destruction of all evil from the face of the earth and the NHNE being brought in.    


 With those BASICS all laid out from a beginning to the end it

Should be EASY to prove CONFLICT somewhere in there.  I would be very appreciative if it was done in the same manner with SCRIPTURE and explanation.  Please show your work like I did with mine because if the words of God THEMSELVES CAN'T TEACH IT, then maybe it shouldn't be taught.  I have shown here how GODS WORDS can and do teach without explanation, but rather careful  examination. 

Praise Ye the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY and the Word.  I do!

[DeighAnn]

What does take place during the Lords Day


1Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

2And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:

3And I will smite thy bow out of thy left hand, and will cause thine arrows to fall out of thy right hand.

4Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.

WHEN DOES THAT HAPPEN? 

11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

17And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

more details GIVEN BY GOD

5Thou shalt fall upon the open field: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.

6And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the LORD.

7So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.

8Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord GOD; this is the day whereof I have spoken.

9And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:

10So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord GOD.

11And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.

12And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.

13Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord GOD.

14And they shall sever out men of continual employment, passing through the land to bury with the passengers those that remain upon the face of the earth, to cleanse it: after the end of seven months shall they search.

15And the passengers that pass through the land, when any seeth a man's bone, then shall he set up a sign by it, till the buriers have buried it in the valley of Hamongog.

16And also the name of the city shall be Hamonah. Thus shall they cleanse the land.

17And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.

18Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.

19And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.

20Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord GOD.

21And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

22So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

23And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.

24According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.

25Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;

26After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.

27When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;

28Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.

29Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

[Montana Marv]

3 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Ezekiel didn't see new Jerusalem till after they have cleaned everything up.

Don't put the cart before the horse.

Ezk. new nothing about the New Jerusalem.  But a lot was revealed to him about the Mill Temple.

Compare the Two Temples:  Rev 21:22 - I did not see a temple in this city (New Jerusalem), because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its Temple.  Two who are.  The Temple

To: Ezk 43;  The glory of the Lord entered the temple through the gate facing East.  Then the glory of the Lord filled the temple.  Son of man this is the place of my throne, and the place for the soles of my feet. This is where I will live among the Israelites forever.  One who occupies. The Mill Temple

Hope this clears a few thing up for you.  No decay in the New Jerusalem, no cleanup needed.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Shilohsfoal]

1 minute ago, Montana Marv said:

Ezk. new nothing about the New Jerusalem.  But a lot was revealed to him about the Mill Temple.

Compare the Two Temples:  Rev 21:22 - I did not see a temple in this city (New Jerusalem), because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its Temple.  Two who are.  The Temple

To: Ezk 43;  The glory of the Lord entered the temple through the gate facing East.  Then the glory of the Lord filled the temple.  Son of man this is the place of my throne, and the place for the soles of my feet. This is where I will live among the Israelites forever.  One who occupies. The Mill Temple

Hope this clears a few thing up for you.  No decay in the New Jerusalem, no cleanup needed.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Not really.Ezekiel didn't say anything about a millinium .

But

So are you saying the the river of the water that gives life comes out of the temple in Ezekiel  during the millinium when revelation says it comes from under the throne of God  after the millinium.

Why do you not agree with revelation yet again?It's like nothing you say agrees with revelation but you always disagree with its timing.I wonder why.

 

See how these things correspond just like Gog in Ezekiel 38 and Gog in revelation 20?

Now we have Ezekiel 47 corresponding to revelation 22.Its just like having two witnesses say the same things.

 

Ezekiel 47:12

¹² Fruit trees of all kinds will grow on both banks of the river. Their leaves will not wither, nor will their fruit fail. Every month they will bear fruit, because the water from the sanctuary flows to them. Their fruit will serve for food and their leaves for healing.”

 

Revelation 22

22 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

² In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.