Offense

[Michael37]

5 hours ago, SpiritSong said:

It seems that the general conclusion we are all coming to is that the apostasy and offense happens to those who claim to be part of the body of Christ but aren't grounded enough in Christ to be part of His body. It's interesting to note that is Jesus after this false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 

It seems that after this, because of the false prophets that lawlessness (towards God, not man's legal systems) will abound, and the love of many believers will grow cold.

To be honest, I think this has already started to happen. We need to return to our first love. Just because believers can grow cold doesn't mean they can't be revived. I believe revival is coming, as the gospel will first be preached to the ends of the earth, and then the end will come.

Quote from BingChat:

The study of apostasy is not called “apostology”. However, there are studies on apostasy. One study proposes that apostasy be conceptualized as the process of disengagement from two major elements of religion: belief and community¹.

Useful Resource:

 

Apostasy in Christianity - Wikipedia

 

Observation:

 

The difference between "everyday apostasy" and "the great apostasy" is that the former occurs regularly but not en masse, whilst the later is a single event of epic proportions during a time of intense pressure.

 

The Great Apostasy is a concept within Christianity that refers to a perception that mainstream Christian Churches have fallen away from the original faith founded by Jesus and promulgated through his twelve Apostles¹. The term is derived from the Second Epistle to the Thessalonians, in which the Apostle Paul informs the Christians of Thessalonica that a great apostasy must occur before the return of Christ, when “the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction” (chapter 2:1–12)¹. [BingChat]

[phoneman-777]

On 8/22/2023 at 5:26 AM, SpiritSong said:

Matthew 24:9-14:

9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

 

These verses show us the lead up to Christ's return. It seems as though offense plays a crucial part on whether we will endure or not.

Why do you think Christ even mentions offense? Isn't it just a natural reaction to the yuckiness we are all bombarded by on a daily basis? 

I know it's offensive to me!

How dangerous can something like offense be? How does it then lead to betrayal?

And what is the secret to enduring all of this?

Thoughts, please 🙂

I've heard some argue that "endure to the end" and "be saved" has nothing to do with saints winding up lost, but refers to "enduring to the end of the 7 year tribulation without getting killed".

Of course, no indication Jesus here refers to any "7 year tribulation" nor would He who makes the blind see, the lame walk, the dead rise waste precious words telling us about saints "getting killed" especially when He's told us over and over that persecution is the lot of the saint.

No, He's warning the saints that widespread iniquity is going to rob many of their salvation both by the practice of it by saints and by the use of it by sinners to offend saints.

[garee]

2 hours ago, phoneman-777 said:

I've heard some argue that "endure to the end" and "be saved" has nothing to do with saints winding up lost, but refers to "enduring to the end of the 7 year tribulation without getting killed".

Of course, no indication Jesus here refers to any "7 year tribulation" nor would He who makes the blind see, the lame walk, the dead rise waste precious words telling us about saints "getting killed" especially when He's told us over and over that persecution is the lot of the saint.

No, He's warning the saints that widespread iniquity is going to rob many of their salvation both by the practice of it by saints and by the use of it by sinners to offend saints.

Yes more like saved to the end  .If he began the good work he will finish it .

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

[farouk]

7 minutes ago, garee said:

Yes more like saved to the end  .If he began the good work he will finish it .

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

@garee That's a good verse; I often think of it in terms of the true believer's eternal security.

[phoneman-777]

On 8/24/2023 at 9:11 PM, farouk said:

@garee That's a good verse; I often think of it in terms of the true believer's eternal security.

Exactly! Now that's true Bible "eternal security" we can all embrace - we're eternally secure as long as we remain inside the antitypical "city of refuge" - Jesus.

People need to read about what Joab did to Abner when he stepped outside the gates of Hebron...and just as king David said Abner died "as a fool", it will be no less said of those in the Judgment who think they can divide their time between the Divine Vine and Satan's Holly tree.

Edited September 2, 2023 by phoneman-777

[farouk]

3 hours ago, phoneman-777 said:

Exactly! Now that's true Bible "eternal security" we can all embrace - we're eternally secure as long as we remain inside the antitypical "city of refuge" - Jesus.

People need to read about what Joab did to Abner when he stepped outside the gates of Hebron...and just as king David said Abner died "as a fool", it will be no less said of those in the Judgment who think they can divide their time between the Divine Vine and Satan's Holly tree.

If someone is no longer remaining in trust of such refuge, then s/he was never there in the first place...

[phoneman-777]

2 hours ago, farouk said:

If someone is no longer remaining in trust of such refuge, then s/he was never there in the first place...

What about the "many" saints in Matthew 24:12 who are going to be spat out of Jesus' mouth along with the merely lukewarm Laodiceans?

They were absolutely saved, but wind up as lost as those who were never saved.

[farouk]

2 hours ago, phoneman-777 said:

What about the "many" saints in Matthew 24:12 who are going to be spat out of Jesus' mouth along with the merely lukewarm Laodiceans?

They were absolutely saved, but wind up as lost as those who were never saved.

Matthew 24 does not seem to be about the church.

[garee]

12 hours ago, farouk said:

Matthew 24 does not seem to be about the church.

Matthew 24 is in regard to the church as those who went out because they were not of us as false apostles 

God defines the us with him and those who are against God.  The church does not define we must go to the living word. 

remember without parables hiding the understanding of God Christ the Holy Spirit spoke not, He gives us ears to hear the parables the gospel understanding  given to us  . 

[Sower]

On 8/23/2023 at 6:51 AM, jesusandliberty said:

Christians in America and the UK are not ready for the real persecution coming.

"I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot,

I will spue thee out of my mouth"

Decide...