Believers' Accountability and the Judgement Seat of Christ

[FreeGrace]

4 minutes ago, Stan Murff said:

  Know Jah said: 

I'm curious as to what happens to all those pre-Christians who never knew Christ, yet had faith in God.

Jesus preached to them when they were in Abraham's bosom, they believed, and Jesus led them out as born again Christians.

This is why the Bible says Jesus preached to the prisoners in hell after he left His body on the cross.  This is one of the things He was doing when He was in hell (he was not being torments by the devil like Kenneth Copeland claims)

The Bible doesn't say "preached to prisoners".  It says "preached to the spirits in prison".  1 Peter 3:19

This is the next verse:

20 who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.

What does v.20 refer to?  Not what you claim.  This is a reference to the fallen angels per Genesis 6 and contaminated humanity in an attempt to thwart Christ's death for humans.  Jesus did not die for any angels.  Heb 2:16

Your answer suggests that people in Hades had a second chance.  But no one does.  At the point of physical death, if one had never believed in the Messiah, they were condemned to the LOF.  

John 3:18 and 2 Thess 2:12 teach that condemnation is for those who 'have not believed', which means "never believed".  That's who go to the LOF.

[Vine Abider]

12 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

Nah, not that terrorizing if all the Lord is doing is not handing out some rewards some folks thought they had coming and if they still get to be in Heaven even if they lived like the devil during their lives and were accepted by the Lord anyway.

It's odd that some folks claim they are "terrorized" about not getting some rewards.

Makes it sound like rewards are the primary thing we are looking to gain as a Christian is as though it's all about me and what am I gonna get?

The real terror is the Lord not allowing some in to Heaven since Jesus did say "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER" (Matthew 7:21).

Jesus also said thru the Apostle James to "be ye DOERS OF THE WORD, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves" (James 1:22) 

Jesus apparently expects His people to DO some stuff after getting born again.

Reckon Jesus didn't get the memo from the so called reformers that salvation is by faith only??? (see James 2:14-26)

The Lord says the following thru the Apostle James:

James 2:24
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

James 2:20
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Apparently one is justified by faith AND by works.... and the man that believes justification is by faith only is a "vain" man.

Sounds like either Jesus is wrong or the so called reformers are wrong since they teach an partial truth and leave the part out about works leaving the door open to sinful living (license to sin).

Martin Luther was a known drunk so I can see how he would want to leave the part about works out so he could continue drinking his beloved booze which is living in sin! (see 1 Corinthians 6:9-13)

Quite the quandary here... who shall we say is in error the Lord or the reformers???  That tis the question!



 

You may not have seen, but part of the consideration of this thread, and mentioned in a few posts, is what exactly is the potential severity of the Bema Seat judgement of Christ toward a believer.  There are some who advocate that the downside of this judgement should be viewed as extremely severe.  For instance, they would say the unprofitable servant (Matt 25), who is thrown into outer darkness and experiences extreme anguish ("weeping & gnashing of teeth") remains in that state for a full 1,000 years during the kingdom period.  Then there are others who say the downside will just be the loss of any reward, and that is the only consequence.

This is a subject that I've participated in a number of conversations over the years.  Both camps have their merits in scripture (but as in so many of these things, the more complete view is probably both and/or perhaps more in the middle).

[Mr. M]

37 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

You may not have seen, but part of the consideration of this thread, and mentioned in a few posts, is what exactly is the potential severity of the Bema Seat judgement of Christ toward a believer.  There are some who advocate that the downside of this judgement should be viewed as extremely severe.  For instance, they would say the unprofitable servant (Matt 25), who is thrown into outer darkness and experiences extreme anguish ("weeping & gnashing of teeth") remains in that state for a full 1,000 years during the kingdom period.  Then there are others who say the downside will just be the loss of any reward, and that is the only consequence.

This is a subject that I've participated in a number of conversations over the years.  Both camps have their merits in scripture (but as in so many of these things, the more complete view is probably both and/or perhaps more in the middle).

And each and every opinion is tempered by

how each and every individual conducted themselves.

Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that you be not judged. 

2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; 

and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 

A fault finding believer is going to find the Lord to be 

quite nit picky!

Matthew 18:

32 Then his master, after he had called him,

said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you 

all that debt because you begged me. 

33 Should you not also have had compassion

on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 

34 And his master was angry, and delivered him

to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.

35 So My heavenly Father also will do to you

if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive

his brother his trespasses.

There is no one standard of judgment, their is 

one law of reciprocity, and we set the standard

for ourselves alone.

[NConly]

2 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Good question!  Many don't believe he was, based on his behavior.  However, Jesus specifically identified the "father-son" relationship, which is clearly permanent in the human realm.  If the "Father-son" relationship in the spiritual realm wasn't permanent, why would Jesus use that for an example?  It wouldn't make sense.

The prodigal was a son at the beginning of the parable, he remained a son throughout his time "in a far country", and when he returned to his father.

Some are confused and think the parable is about salvation, and the prodigal was saved when he came back to the father.  When the father described his son as being "dead" and "lost" he was describing the son as being out of fellowship with the father.  iow, the son broke fellowship with his father.  

But, fellowship was restored when the son confessed his sin (first in the pig sty and then to his father) and repented (returned to his father).  

Let me ask this; once a person is saved if they break fellowship with God the Father they should repent of each sin after being saved because each sin causes a break of fellowship ?

[Mr. M]

5 minutes ago, NConly said:

Let me ask this; once a person is saved if they break fellowship with God the Father they should repent of each sin after being saved because each sin causes a break of fellowship ?

Hebrews 10:

26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 

27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 

28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 

29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 

30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 

31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

One thing remains, true to His Word...

Psalm 18:

25 With the merciful You will show Yourself merciful;
With a blameless man You will show Yourself blameless;
26 With the pure You will show Yourself pure;
And with the devious You will show Yourself shrewd.

Hebrews 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, 

and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.

[Michael37]

2 hours ago, Know Jah said:

I'm curious as to what happens to all those pre-Christians who never knew Christ, yet had faith in God.

Quote from What was the Old Testament way of salvation? | GotQuestions.org

If the Old Testament way of salvation was not keeping the Law, then how were people saved? Fortunately, the answer to that question is easily found in Scripture, so there can be no doubt as to what was the Old Testament way of salvation. In Romans 4 the apostle Paul makes it very clear that the Old Testament way of salvation was the same as the New Testament way, which is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. To prove this, Paul points us to Abraham, who was saved by faith: “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness” (Romans 4:3). Again, Paul quotes the Old Testament to prove his point—Genesis 15:6, this time. Abraham could not have been saved by keeping the Law, because he lived over 400 years before the Law was given!

[Vine Abider]

1 hour ago, NConly said:

Let me ask this; once a person is saved if they break fellowship with God the Father they should repent of each sin after being saved because each sin causes a break of fellowship ?

That seems like a lot of focusing on sin.  From what I see in scripture, Jesus paid that ultimate price once for all and as Galatians 5:1 says, "It is for freedom that Christ set us free!" Focusing intently on sin is like looking at the chains He has broken for us, instead of looking to Him and walking in the freedom He gave us.  And focusing on the chains (sin) all the time could make us think we're right back in bondage, which He freed us from!

That doesn't mean we should dismiss sin, by any means.  For while the penalty for sin has been removed in Christ, sin still has various other negative consequences in a believer, and can hinder him greatly.

But because of what Christ did, when we sin we can simply say, "Lord, yes, I did it again.  Thank you for your precious blood which cleanses me from this.  I turn to you right now and come boldly to the throne of grace - help me and live through me so I don't do this again!  Thank you Jesus!"

CC: @Mr. M (it was suggested that you should see this post)

Edited September 8, 2023 by Vine Abider
Tagged Mr. M

[NConly]

29 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

Hebrews 10:

26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 

27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 

28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 

29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 

30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 

31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

One thing remains, true to His Word...

Psalm 18:

25 With the merciful You will show Yourself merciful;
With a blameless man You will show Yourself blameless;
26 With the pure You will show Yourself pure;
And with the devious You will show Yourself shrewd.

Hebrews 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, 

and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.

Its odd you quote this verse I have quoted this verse maybe 4 or 5 times in a couple topics and not a single person responded to it.

[Vine Abider]

10 minutes ago, NConly said:

Its odd you quote this verse I have quoted this verse maybe 4 or 5 times in a couple topics and not a single person responded to it.

My response to those verses in Hebrews 10: 26-29 is it's regarding someone who has known the truth in Christ, and pursuant to this letter, is thinking of returning to Judaism.  (the whole chapter is addressing Jewish believers and extolling them on the follies of returning to their former religious beliefs & practice) 

[NConly]

16 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

That seems like a lot of focusing on sin

I hope you respond to Mr M post/answer about this question because when I quoted you and gave the same verse you ignored me quoting you.

Im not talking about focusing on sin. when a person is saved they may only sin once a day, month, year; seems right to say to God one is sorry for stumbling or breaking fellowship by sin asking for forgivness.