The 24 elders around God Throne are the representation of the church

[R. Hartono]

Rev. 4: 4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

Listen to what they said about themselves straight to the point, loud and clear.

Rev. 5:9 ... .for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation.

Rev. 5: 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

They shall reign on the earth in Jesus Millennium after the Great Tribulation wipe off the unGodly civilization. As they watch the Lamb opens the Seals showing most bloody tribulation of the world.

Number 24 means priesthood. 1 Chronicles 24 explains there are 24 divisions of all priests who served in the service at the Temple. See the 24 divisions here :

https://www.hebrew4christians.com/Articles/Christmas/christmas.html#loaded

The 24 Divisions represents all priests that served at the Temple, the same scheme that the 24 elders represents all the saints.

They represent the Victorious wise virgins fetched up to the Feast of the Lamb.

Rev. 3:21 Those who is Victorious I will give the rights to sit with me at My Throne.....

God bless.

 

Edited October 4, 2023 by R. Hartono

[Revelation Man]

On 8/29/2023 at 7:24 AM, R. Hartono said:

Rev. 4: 4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

Listen to what they said about themselves straight to the point, loud and clear.

Rev. 5:9 ... .for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation.

Rev. 5: 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

They shall reign on the earth in Jesus Millennium after the Great Tribulation wipe off the unGodly civilization. As they watch the Lamb opens the Seals showing most bloody tribulation of the world.

Number 24 means priesthood. 1 Chronicles 24 explains there are 24 divisions of all priests who served in the service at the Temple. See the 24 divisions here : http://remnant.net/sukkot_y.htm

The 24 Divisions represents all priests that served at the Temple, the same scheme that the 24 elders represents all the saints.

They represent the Victorious wise virgins fetched up to the Feast of the Lamb.

Rev. 3:21 Those who is Victorious I will give the rights to sit with me at My Throne.....

God bless.

 

I agree with all but one point. Then I will add in an observation at the bottom.

The one point is when these type things are said  we tend to think of earth as only this earth, but I think that verse points to us reigning eternally on the [New] Earth. See my point? Why do we assume its the earth where Jesus will rule for 1000 years with ONLY the Martyrs of the 70th week who refused to take the Mark of the Beast, so says Rev. 20:4. So, when you have conflicting scriptures, we have to learn to look for "THE OUT" so to speak, what gets us out of the two scriptures being conflicted and to me, Rev. 20:4 says ONLY THOSE who died as Martyrs whilst refusing the Mark of the Beast live and reign with Jesus during his 1000 year reign, I mean, God is all knowing, Jesus doesn't need every human who ever lived as Christians to help him rule on earth, those who die during the 70th week will be plenty, IMHO, we will be finishing off the New Jerusalem, thus when it descends it is described as the Bride of Christ, because we build it, and descend in it. 

The New Heavens and New Earth, IMHO, is what those in Rev. 5:9-10 are speaking about. 

The observation is I forget if you are Pre Trib or Post Trib so I did not want to presuppose your position. But those seen in Heaven here (Rev. 5:9-10) are seen before the Seals are ever opened, so these are the Pre Trib Raptured Church. 

Edited September 2, 2023 by Revelation Man

[Last Daze]

On 8/29/2023 at 7:24 AM, R. Hartono said:

Rev. 4: 4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

Listen to what they said about themselves straight to the point, loud and clear.

Rev. 5:9 ... .for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation.

Rev. 5: 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

They shall reign on the earth in Jesus Millennium after the Great Tribulation wipe off the unGodly civilization. As they watch the Lamb opens the Seals showing most bloody tribulation of the world.

Number 24 means priesthood. 1 Chronicles 24 explains there are 24 divisions of all priests who served in the service at the Temple. See the 24 divisions here : http://remnant.net/sukkot_y.htm

The 24 Divisions represents all priests that served at the Temple, the same scheme that the 24 elders represents all the saints.

They represent the Victorious wise virgins fetched up to the Feast of the Lamb.

Rev. 3:21 Those who is Victorious I will give the rights to sit with me at My Throne.....

God bless.

In the throne room narrative of Rev 4 & 5, the 24 elders are there singing a song before any mention of the Lamb.  When the Lamb shows up, they sing a new song.  Something changed.

[Montana Marv]

47 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

In the throne room narrative of Rev 4 & 5, the 24 elders are there singing a song before any mention of the Lamb.  When the Lamb shows up, they sing a new song.  Something changed.

He, the Lamb was worthy and took the Scroll.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[garee]

On 8/30/2023 at 6:56 PM, Revelation Man said:

I agree with all but one point. Then I will add in an observation at the bottom.

The one point is when these type things are said  we tend to think of earth as only this earth, but I think that verse points to us reigning eternally on the [New] Earth. See my point? Why do we assume its the earth where Jesus will rule for 1000 years with ONLY the Martyrs of the 70th week who refused to take the Mark of the Beast, so says Rev. 20:4. So, when you have conflicting scriptures, we have to learn to look for "THE OUT" so to speak, what gets us out of the two scriptures being conflicted and to me, Rev. 20:4 says ONLY THOSE who died as Martyrs whilst refusing the Mark of the Beast live and reign with Jesus during his 1000 year reign, I mean, God is all knowing, Jesus doesn't need every human who ever lived as Christians to help him rule on earth, those who die during the 70th week will be plenty, IMHO, we will be finishing off the New Jerusalem, thus when it descends it is described as the Bride of Christ, because we build it, and descend in it. 

The New Heavens and New Earth, IMHO, is what those in Rev. 5:9-10 are speaking about. 

The observation is I forget if you are Pre Trib or Post Trib so I did not want to presuppose your position. But those seen in Heaven here (Rev. 5:9-10) are seen before the Seals are ever opened, so these are the Pre Trib Raptured Church. 

One thing I have noticed is the use of the word "martyr"  some use it as a division  The word with no other meaning addied is "witness " All believer eventually die .

 Creating a special class is not a biblical idea .All suffer persecution day and night the accuser of the brethren how they die has no influence.   

The thousands year is a unknown. Thousand a signified word with a hidden meaning. It is not only used with the time elemnt but everything of Christian .  

For instance God owns all the cattle on all the hills  thousand represent a unknow we walk by the unknown revealed in parables .they teach us how to walk after the unseen eternal things of God  

The number of references that show a thousand as a figure of speech to indicate a unknown not revealed  is overwhelming. 

Psalm 50:10 For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.

Psalm 84:10 For a day in thy courts is better than a thousand. I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness.

Psalm 105:8He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word which he commanded to a thousand (every) generations.

Psalm 119:72 The law of thy mouth is better unto me than thousands (all) of gold and silver.

 

[Revelation Man]

On 9/8/2023 at 3:16 AM, garee said:

One thing I have noticed is the use of the word "martyr"  some use it as a division  The word with no other meaning addied is "witness " All believer eventually die .

 Creating a special class is not a biblical idea .All suffer persecution day and night the accuser of the brethren how they die has no influence.   

I think you missed the point. Martyrs for Jesus have been around since his death, Rev. 20:4 SPECIFICALLY cites those Martyrs who REFUSED the Mark of the Beast, that is only a 42 month window in time, so NO ONE not living during that 42 month period will reign with Jesus during his 1000 year reign. 

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Edited October 4, 2023 by Revelation Man

[garee]

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

I think you missed the point. Martyrs for Jesus have bee around since his death, Rev. 20:4 SPECIFICALLY cites those Martyrs who REFUSED the Mark of the Beast, that is only a 42 month window in time, so NO ONE not living during that 42 month period will reign with Jesus during his 1000 year reign. 

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

You might of missed it.

The Amil position causes less confusion nothing disappears and then reappears.  In the last days signaled by the renting of the veil (sign of circumcision) signified by a thousand years on the last day under the Sun.  Christ will leave this corrupted planet like a thief in the night    

Abel the apostles, messenger. .  prophet sent by God is the first listed witness that died . Dying did not make him a witness his witness was living for Christ. Living sacrifices not dead never to rise .Many witnesses (martyrs') die natural causes each day .Death  it's the one appointment all men make   

Matthew 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

All witness eventually die . The word martyr with no other meaning added witness which some have to cause some sort of pecking order .

Throughout that into the mix of changing the meaning of the words. .  another word made to no effect "apostle". .   meaning  messenger with no other meaning that some call angel. Not highly venerable ones  that lord it over the show watchers non venerable .The kingdom of God is not of this world  no pecking order  other than to represent that not seen  as a shadow of good things to come .

In the end of the matter looking to create a pecking order of dying mankind using four words to change the authority (martyr, apostle, prophet messenger )  remove one the foundation collapse . . given it over to the oral traditons of dying mankind (law of the fathers) .Pharisees with Sadducees. Needed to create what they call a legion of martyrs the key of creating what are called patron saint. .   anti christs another teaching authority. .  false prophets as false apostles.  

Most likely it began with Catholicism and Eastern Orthodox  putting aside their difference  passed on from the Pharisees with Sadducees . . two sects that venerate the dying flesh of mankind worshiping venerating witnesses rather that the work of the Holy father not seen   In that way they refuse to obey the loving commandment not to call any many on earth Holy Father one is in heaven.  No Pope.. . no legion of martyrs as patron saints (3500 and rising .Again its appointed for all witnesses die once   

[Revelation Man]

1 hour ago, garee said:

You might of missed it.

 

No, its VERY CLEAR, as a Preacher of nigh 40 years tags are not my bag. WORDS ARE. 

God Bless

[garee]

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

No, its VERY CLEAR, as a Preacher of nigh 40 years tags are not my bag. WORDS ARE. 

God Bless

 Thanks. . .Tags as parables?

Without tags the signified understanding as a figure of speech called parables. Christ the Holy Spirit of God "spoke not" Hiding the gospel  understanding from the literalist   Literalizing the spiritual understanding . . the mysteries of faith remain mysteries  he gives the wisdom needed to solve.

Parables are designed to teach us the unseen things of God (walk by faith his not of our own fleshly understanding. Tags do not change the simplicity of God working saving mankind but to enrich or give a deeper understanding if one searches as for silver or gold  .   

 

[Revelation Man]

On 9/8/2023 at 11:40 AM, garee said:

 Thanks. . .Tags as parables?

 

As in Amil, Dispensationalism, Calvinism, Futureism etc. etc. there are so many it becomes daunting, I just understand the word clearly, I don't get into the tags, because usually its just men arguing with men about presuppositions they are stuck on. 

I am OK with parables. 

Edited October 4, 2023 by Revelation Man