The 24 elders around God Throne are the representation of the church

[DeighAnn]

44 minutes ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

I personally believe the 24 elders are literal people. I think they are the 12 tribes of Israel ( sons of Jacob ) and the 12 Apostles. Just my opinion. I can't prove it.

There is the issue of JOHN being one of the Apostles though, isn't there?   Can't really be seated in heaven and on earth at the same time.  

[Revelation Man]

12 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

THE WISE MEN understood it.   HEROD understood it.  The MULTITUDES understood it.  The only ones who didn't see it were the VIPERS, the synagogue of Satan calling themselves Jews. Who else was going around  Healing the sick?  Raising the dead?  Speaking with authority?   Causing a MASS EXODUS from their synagogues?  

SO BIG RED LETTERS weren't necessary.  It was those who THOUGHT they knew the most, were the MOST educated, thought themselves to be the ONLY ones who COULD SEE were those who didn't get it.   You know, those who made a BIG DEAL about who THEY were, those making BIG PRETENSES about who they were.  

 

Herod saw nothing per se, other told him of these things. Thee Wise Men saw from afar, they my have been Angels for all we know. See Gen 18 Abraham saw Three Men, one was the Lord, two were Angels. I will explain one day how to show Jewish people how the Lord was seen as a man, whilst the Lord God was in Heaven in Gen. 19 delivering fire from heave unto Sodom.

You not being able to see or understand Prophecy is on you. 

[DeighAnn]

Just now, Revelation Man said:

Herod saw nothing per se, other told him of these things. Thee Wise Men saw from afar, they my have been Angels for all we know. See Gen 18 Abraham saw Three Men, one was the Lord, two were Angels. I will explain one day how to show Jewish people how the Lord was seen as a man, whilst the Lord God was in Heaven in Gen. 19 delivering fire from heave unto Sodom.

You not being able to see or understand Prophecy is on you. 

Good luck with those Jewish people but until God takes the blindness off of them they aren't going to recognize.  If only Christians would accept what is written...
especially knowing the Jewish don't read it themselves....

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits;

that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in Romans 11:25 

[DeighAnn]

3 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Herod saw nothing per se, other told him of these things. Thee Wise Men saw from afar, they my have been Angels for all we know. See Gen 18 Abraham saw Three Men, one was the Lord, two were Angels. I will explain one day how to show Jewish people how the Lord was seen as a man, whilst the Lord God was in Heaven in Gen. 19 delivering fire from heave unto Sodom.

You not being able to see or understand Prophecy is on you. 

I take full responsibility for not seeing Prophecy as you do.  

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

4 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

There is the issue of JOHN being one of the Apostles though, isn't there?   Can't really be seated in heaven and on earth at the same time.  

His vision was of the future, so yes he could. 

[DeighAnn]

54 minutes ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

His vision was of the future, so yes he could. 

The Lamb hadn't been found to open the book so are you saying that Christs crucifixion is future also?

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

1 minute ago, DeighAnn said:

The Lamb hadn't been found to open the book so are you saying that Christs crucifixion is future also?

The breaking of the seals is still future. Christ IS the one who breaks the seals. The very next verse after the one that says no one was found worthy says that Christ was found worthy. No, there is no future crucifixion.

[Revelation Man]

2 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

The Lamb hadn't been found to open the book so are you saying that Christs crucifixion is future also?

Stuff like this lets everyone know you are not in the know. 

[DeighAnn]

8 hours ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

The breaking of the seals is still future. Christ IS the one who breaks the seals. The very next verse after the one that says no one was found worthy says that Christ was found worthy. No, there is no future crucifixion.

Yes, the Lamb HAS BEEN FOUND worthy and the Lamb UNSEALED the book WHEN the Lamb was found to be worthy.  

It's amazing to hear anyone say 'is hasn't been unsealed' 

yet here we are, able to discuss what prophecy was found under each of the seals. 

 

The ONLY OPTION to believe is whether the events written therein are future or not, not whether the unsealing is future or not.   

Yet, with souls under the altar previous to Satan and the angels kicked out, we know the events up to seal 5 have taken place, don't we?  



And still, none of that changes the fact that the ELDERS are in heaven LOOKING for someone to be found worth BEFORE the Lamb of God is, hence BEFORE the CHURCH has even begun.


Hence the timing issue for those of us "not in the know".  



 

 

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

2 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Yes, the Lamb HAS BEEN FOUND worthy and the Lamb UNSEALED the book WHEN the Lamb was found to be worthy.  

It's amazing to hear anyone say 'is hasn't been unsealed' 

yet here we are, able to discuss what prophecy was found under each of the seals. 

 

The ONLY OPTION to believe is whether the events written therein are future or not, not whether the unsealing is future or not.   

Yet, with souls under the altar previous to Satan and the angels kicked out, we know the events up to seal 5 have taken place, don't we?  



And still, none of that changes the fact that the ELDERS are in heaven LOOKING for someone to be found worth BEFORE the Lamb of God is, hence BEFORE the CHURCH has even begun.


Hence the timing issue for those of us "not in the know".  



 

 

I believe chapter 5 is still yet future. The souls under the altar are tribulation martyrs. You mentioned the angels kicked out, I don't know if you mean chapter 12, but Job 1 seems to indicate that at least Satan still has access to Heaven, so I think chapter 12 is also still future. However I will say it seems some prophecies have dual fulfillment, so some things might refer to something that already happened in the past AND something that will again happen in the future. So even the things that seem like they might have already happened may also still have a future fulfillment.