Our default is the spirit (not the flesh)!

[SpiritSong]

2 hours ago, Mr. M said:

In contradiction to the title of this thread,

those who do not abide and thereby overcome,

have not defaulted to the Spirit!

Romans 8:

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit,

if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you.

Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ,

he is not His. 

10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin,

but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 

11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead

dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead

will also give life to your mortal bodies

through His Spirit who dwells in you.

This is in direct contrast to the sin that dwells in us,

used 3X in Romans 7. Paul clearly lays out that what

we make of the gift of salvation depends wholly on

which we obey. Those who quote Romans 8 without 

the sound comprehension of Romans 7 think they can

quote from 8 without regard for this truth. This is 

commonly known as "name it, claim it" doctrine.

The removal of obedience by this doctrine is anathema.

13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die;

but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body,

you will live. 

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God,

these are sons of God.

There is hardly a day that I do not find myself getting

into the flesh and saying or doing something I regret and

must repent of. This is the Lord's chastisement. This is

the covenant of the sure mercies of David. Ignorance of

this truth is rampant. My perfection of sanctification is in

abiding under the Lord's discipline. Undisciplined faith

will reap what has been sown, to the flesh or the Spirit.

Galatians 6:8 For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh

reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of

the Spirit reap everlasting life.

How is that for eternal security? The Law cannot be broken.

As you reap, so shall you sow. 

This post makes me think that it's really our choice what we make our default. If we are to work out our salvation with fear and trembling and endure to the end to be saved, we must make the Spirit our default. New wineskins!

[Mr. M]

27 minutes ago, SpiritSong said:

This post makes me think that it's really our choice what we make our default. If we are to work out our salvation with fear and trembling and endure to the end to be saved, we must make the Spirit our default

Matthew 7:14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult 

is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

28 minutes ago, SpiritSong said:

New wineskins!

Luke 5:39 And no one, having drunk old wine,

immediately desires new; for he says the old is better.

Galatians 3:3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit,

are you now being made perfect by the flesh?

Matthew 5:20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness

exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees,

you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

Joshua 24:15 And if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

Romans 6:16-22 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness. For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.

Please tolerate my thoroughness, and may all wisely consider...

and let not anyone settle on the lees!

[Mr. M]

Just now, Mr. M said:

Please tolerate my thoroughness, and may all wisely consider...

and let not anyone settle on the lees!

Zephaniah 1:12 And it shall come to pass at that time, that I will search Jerusalem with candles, and punish the men that are settled on their lees: that say in their heart, The Lord will not do good, neither will he do evil.

Such is the belief of Universal Salvation!

Malachi 2:17 Ye have wearied the Lord with your words. Yet ye say, Wherein have we wearied him? When ye say, Every one that doeth evil is good in the sight of the Lord, and he delighteth in them; or, Where is the God of judgment?

[Neighbor]

Perhaps our ( Christians) default is one of conflict, conflict between flesh and spirit. For we are in the world, we work while in the flesh, yet are to fight a war that is raging that the flesh cannot win. For the battle is not against flesh but spirit.

 I think it requires a conscious and diligent effort in reading the word of God then making physical and mental application of its guidance. I do believe Christians fail  often to fight the spirit and instead try to fight in a fleshly manner against what  the Christian often fails to see is an attack by spirits, evil spirits.

So I question the idea that  Christians are in the spirit as a default, for it is work ( For me anyway) to not be fighting as though it is a battle against flesh and blood. Most of us I suspect have to pray, think, read the Bible and resources about the Bible, in order to fight  the spiritual battle and not get faked out thinking it is flesh we fight against.

[Vine Abider]

2 hours ago, Neighbor said:

Perhaps our ( Christians) default is one of conflict, conflict between flesh and spirit. For we are in the world, we work while in the flesh, yet are to fight a war that is raging that the flesh cannot win. For the battle is not against flesh but spirit.

 I think it requires a conscious and diligent effort in reading the word of God then making physical and mental application of its guidance. I do believe Christians fail  often to fight the spirit and instead try to fight in a fleshly manner against what  the Christian often fails to see is an attack by spirits, evil spirits.

So I question the idea that  Christians are in the spirit as a default, for it is work ( For me anyway) to not be fighting as though it is a battle against flesh and blood. Most of us I suspect have to pray, think, read the Bible and resources about the Bible, in order to fight  the spiritual battle and not get faked out thinking it is flesh we fight against.

Yes there is our experience which is what I think you're talking about. And then there is what the word says about us. The word is very clear in saying that we died in Christ, are baptized into his death, etc., in many places. I think the challenge is in our mind, whether we believe God's word or not or look to our experience.

Our experience would tell us one thing, however His word tells us another. Romans chapters 6 through 8 repeatedly tell us about the fact that we have died to the old and died to the law. So what do we do with that? This is where we need the renewing of our mind to not see things as we see them and according to our experience, but according to the reality stated in God's word.

[Mr. M]

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

So what do we do with that?

Do you simply believe what is said, or do what is said?

Romans 6:

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 

13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.

16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 

17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 

22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 

Word of faith believe-ism is widely popular. Any wonder why?

"Confess God's Word over yourself as affirmations".

"Name it-claim it."

"The Bible says it, I believe it, that settles it."

Or, "obedience leading to righteousness"

Hebrews 5:

8 Though he were a Son, yet He learned  obedience

by the things which he suffered;

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of

eternal salvation unto all them that obey Him;

10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

Edited September 13, 2023 by Mr. M

[Mr. M]

3 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

Or, "obedience leading to righteousness"

Paul and James in perfect doctrinal harmony

James 1:

22 But be doers of the word, and not

hearers only, deceiving yourselves. 

23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word

and not a doer, he is like a man observing

his natural face in a mirror; 

24 for he observes himself, goes away, and

immediately forgets what kind of man he was. 

25 But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty

and continues(abides) in it, and is not a forgetful

hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be

blessed in what he does.

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

21 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

But be doers of the word, and not

hearers only, deceiving yourselves. 

They are going to claim this is "works based" and is trying to earn one's way to Heaven

This is actually a great verse to be re mindful of as it's one of the Lord's warnings that should be heeded.


 

Edited September 13, 2023 by Stan Murff

[Vine Abider]

5 hours ago, Mr. M said:

Do you simply believe what is said, or do what is said?

Romans 6:

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 

13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.

16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 

17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 

22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 

Word of faith believe-ism is widely popular. Any wonder why?

"Confess God's Word over yourself as affirmations".

"Name it-claim it."

"The Bible says it, I believe it, that settles it."

Or, "obedience leading to righteousness"

Hebrews 5:

8 Though he were a Son, yet He learned  obedience

by the things which he suffered;

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of

eternal salvation unto all them that obey Him;

10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

Is all that in response to just that one line you picked out of my post?

[Mr. M]

2 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Is all that in response to just that one line you picked out of my post?

I read the entire post, and used the question you posed to respond rather than hit quote, as that takes up a lot of space. My post addresses what you said. You feel that we are to believe what the word says about us in Christ, I say that what Paul teaches is what we are to become as we walk in the Way, the Truth, and the Light. In other words, yes I am disagreeing with your assessment. We do not simply believe what the apostles taught, we are becoming, through obedience to the teaching of the Gospel, the new traditions of Christian behavior apart from the Law, though sanctification, by growing in grace and the knowledge of our Lord and Savior. In a nutshell, do we believe and receive, or do we obey? Do we reap what we sow? Do we accept the chastisement of the Lord to perfect our obedience? Since the focus has been on Romans 8 in particular,consider this: 

28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.

Do you accept this statement to include the trials and tribulations that Jesus said that the world will definitely send our way, especially to those who serve Christ, and endure them as for our own good? Is this all in our making, such as what Peter wrote:

1 Peter 4:1 Therefore, since Christ suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind, for he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin.

Did Jesus say those who believe unto the end would be saved, or those who endure? How many have turned away when the going got tough? Did He not say this:

Matthew 13:

20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 

21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.

Yes, it begins with believing the Gospel, it ends with faithfulness, with well done good and faithful servant. Not just reading a statement and telling myself "I am this, because the word says so", because it does not. The word says I am being transfigured into the image of the Son, and for that to happen, we have to walk as He walked, not read it and claim it.