Having PROVED it is the dead and not the living who are raised at Christs return, what does that change?

[DeighAnn]

When Christ returns THE MAJORITY, if not all believers, believe it is the bodies for the RETURNING CHURCH that are raised up.    

I put forth in another thread why I believe this to be false, as the definition of "the dead" who are raised up at His return is MORTAL, NON-OPERATIONAL IN THE WAYS OF GOD, LIFELESS etc. and are referred to in a MASCULINE form where the 'church' is always written in the FEMININE and are operational in the ways of God and NEVER DIE.   


So what does that change?  What VERSES come clear from that ONE PIECE OF KNOWLEDGE? 

Well, if it is just the spiritually dead that are raised at the end, that would mean

THOSE who received the gift of salvation were/are RAISED UP IN A BODY and never 'lose' their 'image'.

They are raised up at the death of the flesh (1st death the one we are not to fear), rather than returning to be raised up from the grave.

They are all raised up in their own order as in, no matter what 'watch' you die in, you are raised up AT THAT TIME, IN a spiritual body/spirit/soul...called the heavenly body...  



Just going to show some of 1 Corinthians 15 UNDER THIS UNDERSTANDING to show just how simple and easy to follow it REALY REALLY IS.

 

12Now if Christ be preached that He rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

There IS a resurrection of the dead as well as there will be A DIFFERENT KIND of resurrection when Christ returns, a resurrection FROM THE PLACE OF THE DEAD.  

Stay with me.  Christ was the FIRST to be raised up from THE PLACE OF THE DEAD.  HE descended into hell, preached the good news, paid the ransom, brought forgiveness for sin, they were washed clean with HIS BLOOD, the blood of the NEW COVENANT, and all of them that were 'sleeping' NOW WITHOUT imputed SIN, were set FREE, and when He ascended, He led THAT CAPTIVITY now as CAPTIVES to the truth and Grace of God to heaven...We see it in the PROPHECY He said would be fulfilled when He read Isaiah 61 in the temple, in the graves that were opened, in when He ascended...

BY doing that FOR US, we are able to 'claim' the gift of Salvation in which WE in our spiritual body NEVER DESCEND but are raised up at the death of the flesh.  

"The resurrection of the dead" we HOPE to attain is MUCH LIKE those who endure to the end of the age and are changed, 'the alive and remain', 

EXCEPT in that we breathe our last breath and then rise, but they are changed before that last breath and rise. 


13But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

If there wasn't a CHANGE made to the law of sin and death, if Christ didn't bring in the New Covenant, IF HE didn't become the Lamb of God, then there would be nor resurrection of the dead and CHRIST would not have risen..

14And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

And if Christ didn't rise, it would all be a lie and worth nothing
 

15Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

Christ rising up from the dead is the PROOF that the dead indeed do rise and ALSO that the death of the flesh isn't necessarily a FOREVER death but a death from this body and this realm only.  

16For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

17And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

18Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

If those who die in faith don't ALSO rise like Christ did, then FAITH and GRACE did them no good as they would go to the place of the dead to perish also.  In other words they wouldn't go to be with the GOD of the Living but with the king of the dead

19If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

What is the point of being SEPARATE/HOLY in this life if it doesn't extend BEYOND this realm and body.  What good does Grace and Faith and being SAVED do because we KNOW EVEN THE SPIRITUALLY DEAD will be rising when Christ returns

20But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

But THEY SAW Christ risen from the dead, they SAW the graves opened, they SAW them that 'slept' UP AND ALIVE and in spiritual bodies.

21For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

Just like DEATH came upon the world when Adam fell, LIFE after that death came upon the world when THE LAMB of God was slain and the New Covenant was brought forth
 

22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

ALL are going to be raised up from death at some point.  


23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

We already saw Christ and the firstfruits leave HELL when He ascended and was seen and when the graves opened and they, them that slept were seen alive from the dead.  FROM that point on as men live and die they are sown and raised or sown and not raised until later on.   Some will as why were only SOME SEEN and Praise ye the Lord, because only those who KNEW people LIVING on the earth at that time COULD HAVE WITNESSED to their death and resurrection.  The rest wouldn't have made a different being seen or not seen.  

THOSE who are HIS at his return are those who have endured to the end, are alive and remaining, those who will change in the twinkling of an eye.

 

24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

And when all the 'host of heaven' that has become partakers of the flesh and blood, and Christ has returned and has ruled the day with the rod of Iron and Satan has been released and the GWTJ has come to pass, Christ will deliver all rule back to GOD.  

At that point, the ROLE of Saviour will no longer be necessary, for all will have been found in the book of life or gone into the LOF.  No one left to be saved from 


25For He must reign, till He hath put all enemies under His feet.

26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27For He hath put all things under his feet. But when He saith all things are put under Him, it is manifest that He is excepted, which did put all things under Him.

AGAIN, role of Saviour no more, Lamb of God forever...

28And when all things shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him that put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

29Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

Does this have to do with those whos' family members died before they came to faith?  Are they praying they will rise in the resurrection of the just and unjust?  IDK.
 

30And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?

Why be a sheep led to slaughter if when we die we are no different than the wolves?  The gift of Salvation means we never descend, we never see corruption and when we see Christ Jesus we are just like He is and He is in a body raised up in power and glory.  Did His flesh and blood get to go to heaven?  I think so, but with GOD as HIS DAD, and the work He did, I think that is reasonable.  

31I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

32If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.

Our death and resurrection are not the same as the death and resurrection of the NON BELIEVERS WHO don't rise up at all UNTIL CHRIST RETURNS.  
 

33Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.

34Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

Don't let yourself quit abiding in the Lord and go off into the ways of the world.  The Lord can come at any moment for you and you want to be found ABIDING or else your portion will be with the unbelievers...truly, OSASed is a lie for the MOST PART although like all lies, there is SOME TRUTH to it.  Just not a doctrine taught in the words of God and that is why it causes so much damage to the church today

35But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

How are we RAISED UP, raised up not at the LAST DAY with the unbelievers but raised up every man in his own order?  What happens body wise once the blood stops flowing in this one?

36Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

The spiritual body (seed of the body??) doesn't take over or become the 'garment' UNTIL after the death of this body signals it to 'come to life'

37And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

the proof
 

38But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

Not all spiritual bodies are going to be the exact same, like it says " it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain"




GOD giving an example of how spiritual bodies differ with comparisons we can easily understand

39All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

40There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

41There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

Could you IMAGINE if the churches today were TEACHING how much it REALLY DOES MATTER how you live your SPIRITUAL LIFE.  It isn't some FREEBE in which all end up the same, we are MAKING ETERNAL DECISIONS.  Not just life and death but it is ALSO the KIND OF ETERNAL LIFE you will lead.
 
How important IS GODS word and the WAYS of God to you?   How much do you GIVE now, when the choice is totally up to you?  Is it your all or is it your least?   It all will be taken into account.  Its all written down.  

How many kinds of flesh are there?  How many different types of grain?  How many different stars?   The eternal world is NOT A FANTASY world it is not HARD TO SEE and understand.  All the 'free and easy' salvation 'doctrines' doctrines are killing the words of God.  WORDS that matter more than any other words on the planet, in the universe.  And try to IMPRESS THIS MESSAGE upon anyone and what is their reaction, DOUBLE DOWN to prove THEMSELVES RIGHT no matter the cost to the CHRUCH.  I digress






 Different glories, all differ from one another...  So how does it go? 
 

42So also is the resurrection of the dead.

this is for the saved.  It is of the dead, out from the dead but not out from the place of the dead...

It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

sow flesh and blood into the grave, rise up in immortality

 

43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.





So those under the promise of the Old Test raised when those who slept had their graves opened, every man in his own order ever since all having been raised and now in the army of heaven

we come to the LAST DAY OF THIS AGE, when CHRIST is RETURNING to put an end to Satan and his rule, the two witnesses killed, heaven opened, and now 3 days later

the LORD OF LORDS AND KING OF KINGS and the army (all those who have FOLLOWED HIM) are returning

51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

The 'dead' from hell are raised now in spiritual bodies, the alive and remaining changed and caught up to join the army they too in spiritual bodies

53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

And with all in spiritual bodies, NO ONE CAN KILL ANYONE for 1000 years and GODS WAY is the ONLY WAY for most of the day...  

55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

56The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

57But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

58Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

And if anyone tries to tell you it is to keep your salvation you tell them GOD WILL JUDGE and keep right on working as they are just trying to steal a little bit of your future glory....

 

At least that is how I think I see it.  Hopefully I didn't make any big mistakes like putting a DO where a DON'T should have gone or stuff like that but I am NOT going to go to fix anything as it always seems to make it worse.   So, please approach it as nothing more than a rough draft, if you would be so kind...




 

[Keras]

20 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

This verse proves that Paul is Prophesying about the Great White Throne Judgment, Revelation 21:4. Which happens AFTER the Millennium. 

Isaiah 65:20 shows that there will be death during the Millennium. The only people resurrected when Jesus Returns, will be the martyrs of the final 3 1/2 years, Revelation 29:4. They will be brought back to life, that is; to mortal life and can die again, but their second death has no power over them, and they will receive immortality at the GWT Judgment. 

 

[DeighAnn]

On 9/8/2023 at 11:13 AM, Keras said:

This verse proves that Paul is Prophesying about the Great White Throne Judgment, Revelation 21:4. Which happens AFTER the Millennium. 

Isaiah 65:20 shows that there will be death during the Millennium. The only people resurrected when Jesus Returns, will be the martyrs of the final 3 1/2 years, Revelation 29:4. They will be brought back to life, that is; to mortal life and can die again, but their second death has no power over them, and they will receive immortality at the GWT Judgment. 

 

So you say.  Show me how you have PROVEN that to be GODS TRUTH  

And when you don't/won't/can't, come back and read some more here as I will PROVE what I put forth is CORRECT AND GODS TRUTH, not my opinion.  

Did you read the post before this PROVING who the dead were and were not?  If not, might want to start there.  But wait an hour or so, maybe a day or so, as I am adding even more to it.  You know how God works, just when you think every avenue has been exhausted,  He sends you back and makes you go deeper...GOD HOW I LOVE THE BIBLE!!!




 

[Keras]

9 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Show me how you have PROVEN that to be GODS TRUTH  

I did prove that it will be only at the GWT Judgment, after the Millennium, that ALL the dead will be raised.  Revelation 20:11-15   Also, I proved that Death still happens in the Millennium. Revelation 21:4 refers to Eternity. 

We Christians have the Promise of Eternal life, John 3:16, but no one receives it before Judgment and the Book of Life is opened. So, yes; Spiritually, we are alive forever, but physically; we die. Only those faithful people still alive when the GWT Judgment happens. will not physically die, as 1 Corinthians 15:52 says. 

[DeighAnn]

11 hours ago, Keras said:

I did prove that it will be only at the GWT Judgment, after the Millennium, that ALL the dead will be raised.  Revelation 20:11-15   Also, I proved that Death still happens in the Millennium. Revelation 21:4 refers to Eternity. 

We Christians have the Promise of Eternal life, John 3:16, but no one receives it before Judgment and the Book of Life is opened. So, yes; Spiritually, we are alive forever, but physically; we die. Only those faithful people still alive when the GWT Judgment happens. will not physically die, as 1 Corinthians 15:52 says. 

TELLING me what you believe a verse says is PROVING nothing. 

Saying you PROVED it doesn't mean you proved it at all. 

All you did was tell me WHAT you believe, not HOW YOU GOT THERE and why NOTHING else could work.  


RECONCILE THESE VERSES FOR ME
 

25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

26And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die. Believest thou this?


4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
 

12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.




REMEMBER WE JUST READ 

17And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

[Keras]

On 9/8/2023 at 9:16 AM, DeighAnn said:

And with all in spiritual bodies, NO ONE CAN KILL ANYONE for 1000 years and GODS WAY is the ONLY WAY for most of the day... 

In the Millennium reign of King Jesus, people will still be mortal and will procreate and die, albeit for a much longer and disease free life. Isaiah 2:1-4 and Isaiah 65:18-25, +, describe this time. 

That death is still present in the Millennium, is plainly shown by how those who rebel against Jesus, near the end of the thousand years; will be annihilated. Revelation 20:7-10

Your Bible quotes are all over the times and places and you don't identify them properly.

[Revelation Man]

On 9/7/2023 at 4:16 PM, DeighAnn said:

When Christ returns THE MAJORITY, if not all believers, believe it is the bodies for the RETURNING CHURCH that are raised up.    

I put forth in another thread why I believe this to be false, as the definition of "the dead" who are raised up at His return is MORTAL, NON-OPERATIONAL IN THE WAYS OF GOD, LIFELESS etc. and are referred to in a MASCULINE form where the 'church' is always written in the FEMININE and are operational in the ways of God and NEVER DIE.   

You are consistently wrong, I will give you that. 

[DeighAnn]

3 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

You are consistently wrong, I will give you that. 

I take that as a compliment coming from you.  

[DeighAnn]

4 hours ago, Keras said:

In the Millennium reign of King Jesus, people will still be mortal and will procreate and die, albeit for a much longer and disease free life. Isaiah 2:1-4 and Isaiah 65:18-25, +, describe this time. 

That death is still present in the Millennium, is plainly shown by how those who rebel against Jesus, near the end of the thousand years; will be annihilated. Revelation 20:7-10

Your Bible quotes are all over the times and places and you don't identify them properly.

Rev 13

6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Do you believe that is GODS TRUTH?

 

8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.


Do you believe that to be GODS TRUTH?

 

9If any man have an ear, let him hear.

10He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

11And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

12And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

Do you believe that to be GODS TRUTH?
 

13And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

15And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

16And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:


Do you believe that to be GODS TRUTH?
 

17And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

 

2 Thess
4So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:

5Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

6Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

10When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Do you believe that to be GODS TRUTH?   BECAUSE I DO.  I BELIEVE ALL OF THAT TO BE EXACTLY WHAT GOD MEANS.  


Who is it you see as having been MISSED?   



 

[Keras]

11 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Who is it you see as having been MISSED?   

You miss the proper sequence of the end time events. You will find out how confused are as it all happens.