1 Corinth 15:52, what is says and what it doesn't say

[DeighAnn]

 243. allos 
Strong's Concordance
allos: other, another
Original Word: ἄλλος, η, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: allos
Phonetic Spelling: (al'-los)
Definition: other, another
Usage: other, another (of more than two), different.
HELPS Word-studies
243 állos (a primitive word) – another of the same kind; another of a similar type.

236. allassó 
Strong's Concordance
allassó: to change
Original Word: ἀλλάσσω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: allassó
Phonetic Spelling: (al-las'-so)
Definition: to change
Usage: I change, alter, exchange, transform.
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from allos


 

51 Behold, a mystery to you I tell. 

The MYSTERY is speaking to a SPECIFIC point in time and is speaking to a SPECIFIC group of people WHO are alive, and a specific group of people who are dead and in hell, and no one else. 

The time is the LAST TRUMP.  We are about to be told what will happen to those who have not died when that trump sounds. 

THAT IS THE SUBJECT and THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE.

Who will be 'alive' when the last trump sounds?  Those who have overcome and endured to the sounding of the last trump and who have not taken the mark of the beast, having remained faithful to God aka
                                       THOSE WHO ARE HIS AT HIS COMING. 

THE SUBJECT AND THE TIME to which the MYSTERY APPLIES without adding nor subtracting anyone from THIS VERY SPECIFIC GROUP OF SOULS. 




52 in an instant (FOR THOSE WHO HAVE NOT FALLEN ASLEEP who have not taken the mark)

In [the] twinkling of an eye,
at the last trumpet. 

The trumpet will sound for and the dead will be raised IMPERISHABLE

FULL STOP.  WHY just IMPERISHABLE? 

WHY NOT IN INCORRUPTION?    WHY NOT IN GLORY?     WHY NOT IN POWER?  


HOW IS IT the dead are raised 'incorruptible'

WHILE the ONES WHO ARE CHANGED put on INCORRUPTION and IMMORTALITY???

Why aren't the DEAD raised up "in INCORRUPTION AND IMMORTALITY" TOO???

Feel free to give your answer before reading the next post when I put forth what is written.  

 

[DeighAnn]

The ANSWER is given in verse 50…neither doth corruption inherit incorruption


so, how does 'corruption' come upon one?  From being dead and in hell. 

"For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption." Psalms 16:10 KJV

That would be both soul and body, the spiritual one since the flesh and blood one is going back to dust.  


50 This now I say, brothers, that flesh and blood [the] kingdom of God to inherit not is able,

nor the decay the immortality does inherit. 

5356. phthora

Strong's Concordance

phthora: destruction, corruption

Original Word: φθορά, ᾶς, ἡ

Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine

Transliteration: phthora

Phonetic Spelling: (fthor-ah')

Definition: destruction, corruption

Usage: corruption, destruction, decay, rottenness, decomposition.

HELPS Word-studies

Cognate: 5356 phthorá (from 5351 /phtheírō) – destruction from internal corruption (deterioration, decay); "rottenness, perishableness, corruption, decay, decomposition" (Souter). See 5351 (phteírō).

861. aphtharsia

Strong's Concordance

aphtharsia: incorruptibility

Original Word: ἀφθαρσία, ας, ἡ

Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine

Transliteration: aphtharsia

Phonetic Spelling: (af-thar-see'-ah)

Definition: incorruptibility

Usage: indestructibility, incorruptibility; hence: immortality.

HELPS Word-studies

Cognate: 861 aphtharsía – properly, no-corruption (unable to experience deterioration); incorruptibility (not perishable), i.e. lacking the very capacity to decay or constitutionally break down. See 862a (aphthartos).

meaning NO ONE, NO SPIRIT/BODY/SOUL BEING RAISED UP WHEN CHRIST RETURNS BECOMES IMMORTAL







51 Behold, a mystery to you I tell.  All not

we will sleep (Verb - Future Indicative Passive - 1st Person Plural) 

all however

we will be changed (Verb - Future Indicative Passive - 1st Person Plural)

NOTICE
The subject  DOES NOT CHANGE from those to whom the mystery is given to ANYONE ELSE.


MEANING this 'CHANGE' does not/is not concerning  

'ALL WHO HAVE EVER DIED' be they saved or not,  

AS IT REMAINS SPECIFIC TO those who are alive and who remain at the last trump


in an instant, in [the] twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet.

The trumpet will sound for, and the DEAD will be raise imperishable, and we

will be changed (Verb - Future Indicative Passive - 1st Person Plural)  

DEAD ADDRESSED  ABOVE

AS FOR THE LIVING WHO ARE CHANGED
It behooves for the perishable this, to put on imperishable and the motal this, to put on immortality

5349. phthartos

Strong's Concordance

phthartos: perishable, corruptible

Original Word: φθαρτός, ή, όν

Part of Speech: Adjective

Transliteration: phthartos

Phonetic Spelling: (fthar-tos')

Definition: perishable, corruptible

Usage: corruptible, perishable.

HELPS Word-studies

Cognate: 5349 phthartós (an adjective, derived from 5351 /phtheírō) – perishable, what easily perishes disintegrates (corrupts) – like the break-down of the physical body during our natural lifetime. See 5351 (phteírō).


861. aphtharsia

Strong's Concordance

aphtharsia: incorruptibility

Original Word: ἀφθαρσία, ας, ἡ

Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine

Transliteration: aphtharsia

Phonetic Spelling: (af-thar-see'-ah)

Definition: incorruptibility

Usage: indestructibility, incorruptibility; hence: immortality.

HELPS Word-studies

Cognate: 861 aphtharsía – properly, no-corruption (unable to experience deterioration); incorruptibility (not perishable), i.e. lacking the very capacity to decay or constitutionally break down. See 862a (aphthartos).

2349. thnétos 

Strong's Concordance

thnétos: subject to death

Original Word: θνητός, ή, όν

Part of Speech: Adjective

Transliteration: thnétos

Phonetic Spelling: (thnay-tos')

Definition: subject to death

Usage: mortal, subject to death.

HELPS Word-studies

2349 thnētós – properly, subject to dying (death), mortality; the inevitability of physical death.

110. athanasia

Strong's Concordance

athanasia: immortality

Original Word: ἀθανασία, ας, ἡ

Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine

Transliteration: athanasia

Phonetic Spelling: (ath-an-as-ee'-ah)

Definition: immortality

Usage: immortality, imperishability, freedom from death.

HELPS Word-studies

110 athanasía (from 1 /A "without" and 2288 /thánatos, "death") – properly, immortality (literally "without death, deathlessness"), referring to the unique glorification awarded to each believer by the Lord at His return (1 Cor 15:53,54).

SO WHEN THE ALIVE AND REMAINING HAVE BEEN CHANGED....
54 When now the perishable this shall have put on the imperishable, and the mortal this shall have put on immortality then will come to pass the word having been written; Has been swallowed up death in victory


PROVING what is written is what is meant…because the path is narrow.    Praise ye the Lord...

[AdHoc]

4 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

The ANSWER is given in verse 50…neither doth corruption inherit incorruption


so, how does 'corruption' come upon one?  From being dead and in hell. 

"For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption." Psalms 16:10 KJV

That would be both soul and body, the spiritual one since the flesh and blood one is going back to dust.  

You have set your argument on a premise. If the premise is wrong your whole tower collapses. You have no warrant for saying that "corruption comes upon one from being dead and in hell". 1st Corinthians 15:52 concerns THE LIVING - those who have not seen death. Psalm 16:10 does not apply to men in general. It is specific to "the Holy One"- And it refers to the body decaying after death.

1st Corinthians 15 concerns the resurrection. The later verses deal with those who do not need resurrection, but need a resurrection body. A"mystery" in scripture is not the unknown. It is something which puzzles others but is known to Christians. In Matthew 13 our Lord taught in parables to sustain the mysteries of the Kingdom in the understanding of the general public, but His disciples understood.

The body of a corrupt man goes back to the dust, but "IT" is raised from the dead and raised incorruptible. "IT" is the same body but remodeled by the Holy Spirit.* It is not spirit substance because that would be the end of the Church. Our BODIES are the members of Christ (1st Cor.6:15). That is why our Lord said that the Gates of Hades would not prevail against Him BUILDING the Church (Matt.16:18). Dead men, including David, whose tomb is still in Jerusalem, are locked in Hades. Our Lord has the keys to Hades, but only opens the Gates "when He comes" (1st Cor.15:23).

* 2nd Corinthians 5 says our new body is "heavenly"and 1st Corinthians 15:44 says that our resurrection bodies are spiritual. The word "spiritual" does not mean "spirit substance". It means that it has its origin in the Holy Spirit. It is contrasted with the body from the womb. The full salvation of a man is to (i) have his spirit born of the Holy Spirit (Jn.3:6), (ii) have his soul transformed by the Holy Spirit (2nd Cor.3:18), and (iii) have his body reconstructed by the Holy Spirit in heaven. But it is all the SAME BODY.

[DeighAnn]

19 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

You have set your argument on a premise. If the premise is wrong your whole tower collapses. You have no warrant for saying that "corruption comes upon one from being dead and in hell". 1st Corinthians 15:52 concerns THE LIVING - those who have not seen death. Psalm 16:10 does not apply to men in general. It is specific to "the Holy One"- And it refers to the body decaying after death.

I agree 1st Corinthians 15:52 concerns the living and NOT THE DEAD.  

I do have warrant for saying corruption comes from one being dead and in hell, and it is by the Psalm and the other places the  Psalm is quoted.  If it wasn't something that didn't happen then that wouldn't have been said.  I don't believe these are random verses that give information that isn't Gods Truth.  

So my PREMISE doesn't collapse on that point.   

 

 

50 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

The body of a corrupt man goes back to the dust, but "IT" is raised from the dead and raised incorruptible. "IT" is the same body but remodeled by the Holy Spirit.* It is not spirit substance because that would be the end of the Church. Our BODIES are the members of Christ (1st Cor.6:15). That is why our Lord said that the Gates of Hades would not prevail against Him BUILDING the Church (Matt.16:18). Dead men, including David, whose tomb is still in Jerusalem, are locked in Hades. Our Lord has the keys to Hades, but only opens the Gates "when He comes" (1st Cor.15:23).

 

You can KEEP SAYING it is but IT isn't written that way.  There are 2 bodies.  There are heavenly and earthy.  AS we have borne one we will the other.  

No matter what you say about a BODY 

WHAT IS SPOKEN OF AS BEING raised Usage: (a) adj: dead, lifeless, subject to death, mortal 



SO THERE ARE NO CORPSES or CARCASES being raised up ON ANY FRONT, PROVING what you say is false on that front also.  

3498. nekros ►
Strong's Concordance
nekros: dead
Original Word: νεκρός, ά, όν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: nekros
Phonetic Spelling: (nek-ros')
Definition: dead
Usage: (a) adj: dead, lifeless, subject to death, mortal, (b) noun: a dead body, a corpse.
HELPS Word-studies
3498 nekrós (an adjective, derived from nekys, "a corpse, a dead body") – dead; literally, "what lacks life"; dead; (figuratively) not able to respond to impulses, or perform functions ("unable, ineffective, dead, powerless," L & N, 1, 74.28); unresponsive to life-giving influences (opportunities); inoperative to the things of God.

3498 /nekrós ("corpse-like") is used as a noun in certain contexts ("the dead"), especially when accompanied by the Greek definite article. The phrase, ek nekron ("from the dead"), lacks the Greek article to give the sense "from what is of death."




Usage: (a) adj: dead, lifeless, subject to death, mortal  

AND THAT IS NOT A DESCRIPTION OF ANY SAVED/LIVING/BEING I HAVE EVER HEARD OF

So all the OTHER things you try to put forth CAN'T CHANGE WHAT IS WRITTEN.  

 

1 hour ago, AdHoc said:

* 2nd Corinthians 5 says our new body is "heavenly"and 1st Corinthians 15:44 says that our resurrection bodies are spiritual. The word "spiritual" does not mean "spirit substance". It means that it has its origin in the Holy Spirit. It is contrasted with the body from the womb. The full salvation of a man is to (i) have his spirit born of the Holy Spirit (Jn.3:6), (ii) have his soul transformed by the Holy Spirit (2nd Cor.3:18), and (iii) have his body reconstructed by the Holy Spirit in heaven. But it is all the SAME BODY.

again, YOU can SAY what ever you want BUT IT DOESN'T CHANGE THE FACT THAT IT ISN'T BODIES OF ANY SORT THAT IS SPOKEN OF

IT IS THE STATE OF THE SOUL OF THE ONE BEING RAISED, making everything you put forth INCORRECT.   PERIOD.  NO IF ANDS OR BUTS ABOUT IT.  

You might want to go confuse someone else with all that stuff that just complicates what is simple because it won't work here.  I believe WHAT IS WRITTEN IS WHAT IS MEANT.  

And when Jesus say we NEVER DIE, and then I read THE DEAD are raised


I can RIGHTLY DIVIDE BETWEEN THE TWO.  That is the simplicity of Christ and without it WE JUST MIGHT FIND OURSELVES SEDUCED....

[Revelation Man]

On 9/11/2023 at 1:04 PM, DeighAnn said:

The ANSWER is given in verse 50…neither doth corruption inherit incorruption

The Corruption here is SIN FLESH, it can not inherit Heaven (INCORRUPTION). It is simply bonkers that people who can't grasp these facts insist on trying to teaching them anyway.

You ADDED Hell then  tell everyone we are adding, but the word Mystery (Musterion) mean Secret by God's Silence (to close the mouth means to keep something secret). So it was a Secret and Paul the explains it and you conflate it or interpret it wrongly. Now let me interpret this again, I did this a while back and ever since you have been posting threads trying to overcome those factoids I posted. The CURRUPTION is Sin Flesh, that is why vs. 50 says Sin Flesh can not enter Heaven, it is CORRUPT, we die an d lost that corrupt flesh if we are in the Lord, NO ONE ELSE except those in Christ are spoken of here at the Rapture, REMEMBER, the Wicked are all raised and judged 1000 years later at the 2nd Resurrection, that is very, very clear !! So, these can only be the Pre Trib Raptured Saints in Christ, not the Jews who were God the Fathers bride, they are raised when Jesus returns at the very end. Everywhere where this passage denotes CORRUPTION as Sin Flesh I will notify it in big bold letters.

1 Cor 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption;(Sin Flesh) it is raised in incorruption: (Sown in  Sin Flesh and RAISED as a Spirit man see vs. 44) 43 It is sown in dishonour; (Sin Flesh) it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; (Sin Flesh) it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body;(Sin Flesh) it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul(Flesh which became Sin Flesh after disobedience) ; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural(Sin Flesh); and afterward that which is spiritual(Spirit Man). 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy(Sin Flesh made from the DIRT); the second man is the Lord from heaven(Spirit Man). 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.  49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy,(Sin Flesh) we shall also bear the image of the heavenly(Spirit man).

Is it clear now why Paul starts off with the Celestial bodies likeness? One is the Sun, one is the Earth. one is a Star, they all have Glory but are different, we have a body now made of DIRT from this earth, it is sown in CORRPTION (Sin Flesh because of Adam and Eve's disobedience) but our Spirit Man is of God, we become a NEW MAN  in Christ Jesus right? So, NOW w can transition to the verses below AFTER we have looked at the preceding passages to tell us what Paul is talking unto the Corinthians about. You have to use CONTEXT Sister, you never seen to, you pick out verses and do not seem get the context in full. 

 

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God;(Sin Flesh) neither doth corruption inherit incorruption(What is it that was just spoken about? The Kingdom of God or HEAVEN !! Thus Incorruption or Sin Flesh can not inherit Heaven, its just a REPEAT and a DIFFERENT way of saying it).

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery(a Secret up until NOW); We shall not all sleep(Die), but we shall all be changed,

{{{ But why do we need to be CHANGED? Because we have Corrupt Sin Flesh which Paul just told us CAN NOT ENTER Heaven, so we can not just FLY OFF to Heaven we must be CHANGED...........but into what? Well, nothing on earth. we get our Glorious Bodies in Heaven as Rev. 19 shows as we Marry the Lamb, we are thus changed into the exact same thing the Dead ARISE with, a Spiritual Body as verse 44 CLEARLY SHOPWS us sister. Thus it simply means we shed this Sin Flesh just like those who are raised WITHOUT Sin Flesh (Corruption). Pssttt, meaning we fly off to Heaven  in our Spiritual Bodies. Pssttt, mean we DIE and Our UNCORRUPT, in Christ, Spirit Man goes to heaven to be judged and to be Married unto the Lamb. Amen. }}}

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump(Feast of Trumps not Revelation Trumps see Rev. 4:1): for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible(With NO Sin Flesh), and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible(Sin Flesh) must put on incorruption(Spirit Man of Christ), and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality(We will eventually get our Glorious Bodies in Heaven), then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

=============================================================

Try the Holman Version, see if that helps you out.

The Nature of the Resurrection Body
35 But someone will say, “How are the dead raised? What kind of body will they have when they come?” 36 Foolish one! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 And as for what you sow—you are not sowing the future body, but only a seed,[l] perhaps of wheat or another grain. 38 But God gives it a body as He wants, and to each of the seeds its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same flesh; there is one flesh for humans, another for animals, another for birds, and another for fish. 40 There are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is different from that of the earthly ones. 41 There is a splendor of the sun, another of the moon, and another of the stars; for one star differs from another star in splendor. 42 So it is with the resurrection of the dead:

Sown in corruption, raised in incorruption;
43 sown in dishonor, raised in glory;
sown in weakness, raised in power;
44 sown a natural body, raised a spiritual body.

If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: The first man Adam became a living being;[m] the last Adam became a life-giving Spirit. 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, then the spiritual.

47 The first man was from the earth
and made of dust;
the second man is[n] from heaven.
48 Like the man made of dust,
so are those who are made of dust;
like the heavenly man,
so are those who are heavenly.
49 And just as we have borne
the image of the man made of dust,
we will also bear
the image of the heavenly man.

Victorious Resurrection
50 Brothers, I tell you this: Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, and corruption cannot inherit incorruption. 51 Listen! I am telling you a mystery:

We will not all fall asleep,
but we will all be changed,
52 in a moment, in the blink of an eye,
at the last trumpet.
For the trumpet will sound,
and the dead will be raised incorruptible,
and we will be changed.
53 For this corruptible must be clothed
with incorruptibility,
and this mortal must be clothed
with immortality.
54 When this corruptible is clothed
with incorruptibility,
and this mortal is clothed
with immortality,
then the saying that is written will take place:

 

 

[FreeGrace]

On 9/11/2023 at 1:30 PM, DeighAnn said:

52 in an instant (FOR THOSE WHO HAVE NOT FALLEN ASLEEP who have not taken the mark)In [the] twinkling of an eye,
at the last trumpet. 
The trumpet will sound for and the dead will be raised IMPERISHABLE

FULL STOP.  WHY just IMPERISHABLE?

The Bible doesn't say "just imperishable".  And what would be the difference between "imperishable" and "immortal".  Do you know?

On 9/11/2023 at 1:30 PM, DeighAnn said:

 WHY NOT IN INCORRUPTION?    WHY NOT IN GLORY?     WHY NOT IN POWER?

Why don't you think all 3 words are referring to the SAME THING?  Would a body of incorruption not also be glorified?  Of course it would.

On 9/11/2023 at 1:30 PM, DeighAnn said:

HOW IS IT the dead are raised 'incorruptible'

By God's power, obviously.  Your questions are somewhat disturbing.

On 9/11/2023 at 1:30 PM, DeighAnn said:

WHILE the ONES WHO ARE CHANGED put on INCORRUPTION and IMMORTALITY???

All means the same thing:  all believers will have a resurrection body that is glorified, immortal, imperishable.  

On 9/11/2023 at 1:30 PM, DeighAnn said:

Why aren't the DEAD raised up "in INCORRUPTION AND IMMORTALITY" TOO???

They are, obviously.

On 9/11/2023 at 1:30 PM, DeighAnn said:

Feel free to give your answer before reading the next post when I put forth what is written.  

Your questions demonstrate a very deep misundestanding of 1 Cor 15.  It should all be easily understood.  Seems you're making it much more difficult than it needs to be.

[FreeGrace]

On 9/11/2023 at 2:04 PM, DeighAnn said:

The ANSWER is given in verse 50…neither doth corruption inherit incorruption
so, how does 'corruption' come upon one?  From being dead and in hell.

No, from being BORN.  From Adam's sin, all of humanity is corrupted by sin.  It's all in Romans 5.

On 9/11/2023 at 2:04 PM, DeighAnn said:

 "For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption." Psalms 16:10 KJV

 

This is a reference to the Lord Jesus Christ.

On 9/11/2023 at 2:04 PM, DeighAnn said:

 

 

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

The Bible doesn't say "just imperishable".  And what would be the difference between "imperishable" and "immortal".  Do you know?

Why don't you think all 3 words are referring to the SAME THING?  Would a body of incorruption not also be glorified?  Of course it would.

By God's power, obviously.  Your questions are somewhat disturbing.

All means the same thing:  all believers will have a resurrection body that is glorified, immortal, imperishable.  

They are, obviously.

Your questions demonstrate a very deep misundestanding of 1 Cor 15.  It should all be easily understood.  Seems you're making it much more difficult than it needs to be.

 
Always the other guy.  






 

[FreeGrace]

37 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

FreeGrace said: 

The Bible doesn't say "just imperishable".  And what would be the difference between "imperishable" and "immortal".  Do you know?

Why don't you think all 3 words are referring to the SAME THING?  Would a body of incorruption not also be glorified?  Of course it would.

By God's power, obviously.  Your questions are somewhat disturbing.

All means the same thing:  all believers will have a resurrection body that is glorified, immortal, imperishable.  

They are, obviously.

Your questions demonstrate a very deep misundestanding of 1 Cor 15.  It should all be easily understood.  Seems you're making it much more difficult than it needs to be.

 Always the other guy.  

Sometimes, another girl.

btw, no answers to my questions?  Again?