The Trickery of the Flesh

[AdHoc]

 

2 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Nice conversation going about the ol' flesh!  It's one part of the unholy triad - the world, the flesh and the devil, and the one we're most intimate with . . .

So what do you guys think about #2 above?

It does go along with what my view of the enemy is - always wanting to slander the Father to us and keep us from knowing His love and provision for us.  The Lord Jesus came to make the Father's name known to us and demonstrate God's love for us.  The new covenant of the Spirit is inaugurated in His blood, and the free gift of grace to us in Christ is unsurpassed!  But the world, flesh and devil all do their best to suppress this truth, and cause people to think God is like a stern taskmaster who is ready to whack them for the smallest infraction.

This deception also goes into the belief that people just need to be good to please God, and that if they are in fact at least pretty good, He will welcome them in the afterlife. This idea is all works based and means that someone just needs to keep the law to gain His favor, or at least try their best to do so - not much loving Father/son relationship there!

So considering the above statement the brother made:  "Sin in our flesh wants to trick us into living in a relationship with our Father based upon the law and fear"  I think this is true, that the flesh wants to draw us away from the new relationship we have with God in Christ, back into one of legalism and therefore fear.  Looking at Romans 7, this legal relationship with God is quite frustrating, to say the least!  And chapter 6 and the first part of 7 tells us that the part of us that relates to God through the law has died . . . so that we may be married to another - CHRIST!  And Christ does not have a legal relationship with our Father, but rather a liberating relationship of life and love between a Father and His Son!  "It is of Him that you are in Christ Jesus." (1 Cor 1:30)

Aaahhh! You provoke us brother! You propose a deep discussion!

Does the flesh want to trick us into a relationship with God based on Law and fear, or is or flesh at enmity with God to thwart His Law? I propose two scriptures 

7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons (Ge 3:7)

3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: ... 5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. (Ge 6:3–5)

We learn from multiple scriptures that a garment is one's works (e.g. Rev-19:7-8). The Fig Tree is Judah. The works of Judah were the Law. Leaves - the covering - were plentiful. But the fruit was scarce. Jesus curses this Tree. By this analogy, Adam and Eve clothed themselves with works of Law. Nobody ordered them to do it and nobody gave an example. We must therefore say that the love of Law, or the desire for Law, or the solace found in Law is inherent to men who have eaten from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. And this understanding is mightely strengthened by the huge number of Christians who find some reason or other to practice the Law of Moses. This again is backed by the amount of scripture written to put law in its rightful place.

For some reason, and I can only say again, the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil excites a man to Law.

In the second scripture above, fallen man is the enemy of everything of God. "wickedness was GREAT", "EVERY imagination", "ONLY evil" and "CONTINUALLY" make a devastating picture. Man has zero interest in God's Law. And Galatians 5:17 confirms this;

17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

I would venture that the reconciliation of these two contrary camps is not easy. On one hand men love Laws, and on the other hand they hate the laws of God. Which applies to our thread? But upon examination of the details, it appears that I have not been honest. Adam and Eve justified THEMSELVES AMONG THEMSELVES with works of Law. But when God appeared, Adam, though he was wearing the apron of Fig Leaves, admits to God that he is naked. That is, the Fig Leaves only justify a man who stands before another man! Before God nothing works. Adam and Eve loved the works of Law because the retained dignity before each other - not because they loved God's Laws. And conversely, Paul, genuinely in love with God's Law, CANNOT KEEP IT (Rom.7:22).

The Christian has a spirit that becomes the dwelling place of the Holy Spirit at rebirth. The flesh remains at enmity with God. the grand type is Amalek. God has declared war on Amalek "from generation to generation" (Ex.17:16). The flesh is the mortal enemy of God and His people. The Spirit in our spirit makes His rightful claims - and the flesh hates them. And caught in the middle is the man's SOUL. Love and hate are emotions - a function of the soul. But the Holy Spirit in our spirit DOES NOT CALL FOR LAW. He calls for the LIFE OF CHRIST (Rom.8:2). For the Christian, Law is abolished by nailing it to the cross. Law is the Christian's enemy for it is a "PARTITION" to destroy the unity of the Church (Eph.2:15-16). Law is the means of blessing for the Jew. It is anchored in a Covenant. But for the Christian is is dead - nailed with Christ to the cross. Now we can put Adam's Fig Leaves in their rightful place. THEY WERE ONLY FOR HIMSELF!

There is no inherent love of God's Laws. There is only selfish love for self justification. The Christian who loves God CRUCIFIES the flesh (Gal.2:20). Those who hold God in high esteem, like Paul in Philippians 3:9, don't want to be justified by Law. They count the flesh as dead and want to be found in fellowship with God based on Christ's righteousness. The Law is good and spiritual and no jot or tittle will pass till the White Throne. But it does not serve the Christian. Anon, when Israel is united again and in their Land, God will provide for THEM to keep the Law. Jeremiah 31:31-33 tells of "the better Covenant". The House of Israel and the house of Judah will, IN THAT DAY, be equipped to keep the Law. How?
1. Have a resurrection body (Dan.12:1-2), but with "terrestrial glory"
2. Receive a new heart and a new spirit (Ezek.36:26, etc.)
3. Have the Law written on this heart
4. Put their sin and sins away (Jer.31:34)

Does the Christian partake of these things? By NO MEANS! The Christian's lot is far higher. How?
1. He has a resurrection body with "celestial glory" (1st Cor.15:40-42)
2. His spirit is born again (Jn.3:6)
3. He is partaker of the divine life (2nd Pet.1.4)
4. He is led by the Holy Spirit in his human spirit (Rom.8:14)
5. Christ in him imparts His human LIFE embodied in His eternal life (by eating Christ and drinking His blood - Jn.6:53-59)
6. Christ's Life in him equips him to overcome the law of sin and death (Rom.8:2)
7. His SOUL is transformed from glory to glory (2nd Cor.3:18)
8. He is to be conformed to the image and likeness of Christ (Rom.8:29)

Does the flesh try to trick us? Why ... in a war the enemy will do anything to win. What is the Christian response? Crucify the flesh and turn to the spirit. In the spirit of man dwells the ALL-mighty with unlimited resources. Remembr Amalek!

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

Quote

The Trickery of the Flesh

If people to would die to self... the flesh becomes a little pipsqueak! 

[Dennis1209]

On 9/18/2023 at 7:41 PM, AdHoc said:

Nice title and theme.

I hope somebody addresses Eve. God gave very few Laws in Eden, and Eve did not have the sin nature. Yet God's commandments led to sin. I think your title is going to show that Commandments address the flesh, and the only medicine against this is having the life of Christ dwelling in us. The antidote for the power of the Law is the Tree of Life - which of course, Adam and Eve did not eat of. We cannot blame the sin-nature for this as Adam and Eve were not inherently disobedient. I think that their problem, and its solution, lies in the sequence of the Offerings. The sin-Offering is only number 4 of five main Offerings. The first id the Burnt Offering. And until Law was given the prevailing Offering was the burnt Offering - a picture of Christ FULLY DEVOTED to God. Eve was sinless, but she wasn't fully for God. All three things found in the world ultimately address the flesh;
1. The lust of the flesh
2.The lust of the eye
3. The pride of life

Eve failed and Jesus didn't. The difference ...? The Tree of Life. Eve refused it. Jesus was conceived and born by it.

It is also interesting that in our Lord's discussion with Nicodemus, He brought in the "sin-Offering" and the Tree upon which He was lifted up. This shows that the flesh was the culprit, and that the solution was not more discipline of the flesh. the solution was a "wind" which entered man. The Greek for "wind" and "spirit" are the same.

ATO´NEMENT, n. Agreement; concord; reconciliation, after enmity or controversy. Rom. 5.

He seeks to make atonement

2. Expiation; satisfaction or reparation made by giving an equivalent for an injury, or by doing or suffering that which is received in satisfaction for an offense or injury; with for.

And Moses said to Aaron, go to the altar, and offer thy sin-offering, and thy burnt-offering, and make an atonement for thyself and for the people.

When a man has been guilty of any vice, the best atonement he can make for it is, to warn others not to fall into the like.    Spect. No. 8.

3. In theology, the expiation of sin made by the obedience and personal sufferings of Christ.^[1]

Discussing sin, the sinful nature, the law, rebellion, and the book of Romans, this is an opportune time to throw out a question I have tried to find an answer to. Briefly, the way I understand it under the LAW, the shedding of innocent blood and animal sacrifice was a temporary covering, looking forward to the once and for all perfect Sacrifice, the Son of God.

Eve then Adam sinned, and therefore inherited the sinful nature (imputed sin), corrupting all flesh. Cain was the first to murder and spill Abel’s blood on the ground.

From Adam & Eve until the LAW, I would assume that humanity knew right and wrong and may have even been taught and generationally passed down.

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. Romans 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

God’s chosen people through Abraham received 613 laws and observances, including the Ten Commandments, not the preceding Gentiles. Abraham, too, was a Gentile, yet he sacrificed.

As a dispensationalist (literalism), during these dispensational periods before the LAW, using a dispensational view (Dispensation of Innocence, Conscience, Human Government, and Promise), how was humanity to know what qualified as sin? More importantly, by what means were their sins and transgressions covered or atoned for, how were they held accountable? Evidently, during these ages, they did not know sin; therefore, how is one held responsible? Was it as the law today, “ignorance of the LAW is no excuse?” Death reigned from Adam until Moses; what does that period entail?

From the beginning, I know the standard of Salvation has always been Grace through Faith Alone. Enoch pleased the Lord; he was singled out and taken. What am I missing?

 

 

---

^[1] Webster, Noah. Noah Webster’s first edition of An American dictionary of the English language. 2006: n. pag. Print.

[AdHoc]

16 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

ATO´NEMENT, n. Agreement; concord; reconciliation, after enmity or controversy. Rom. 5.

He seeks to make atonement

2. Expiation; satisfaction or reparation made by giving an equivalent for an injury, or by doing or suffering that which is received in satisfaction for an offense or injury; with for.

And Moses said to Aaron, go to the altar, and offer thy sin-offering, and thy burnt-offering, and make an atonement for thyself and for the people.

When a man has been guilty of any vice, the best atonement he can make for it is, to warn others not to fall into the like.    Spect. No. 8.

3. In theology, the expiation of sin made by the obedience and personal sufferings of Christ.^[1]

Discussing sin, the sinful nature, the law, rebellion, and the book of Romans, this is an opportune time to throw out a question I have tried to find an answer to. Briefly, the way I understand it under the LAW, the shedding of innocent blood and animal sacrifice was a temporary covering, looking forward to the once and for all perfect Sacrifice, the Son of God.

Eve then Adam sinned, and therefore inherited the sinful nature (imputed sin), corrupting all flesh. Cain was the first to murder and spill Abel’s blood on the ground.

From Adam & Eve until the LAW, I would assume that humanity knew right and wrong and may have even been taught and generationally passed down.

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. Romans 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

God’s chosen people through Abraham received 613 laws and observances, including the Ten Commandments, not the preceding Gentiles. Abraham, too, was a Gentile, yet he sacrificed.

As a dispensationalist (literalism), during these dispensational periods before the LAW, using a dispensational view (Dispensation of Innocence, Conscience, Human Government, and Promise), how was humanity to know what qualified as sin? More importantly, by what means were their sins and transgressions covered or atoned for, how were they held accountable? Evidently, during these ages, they did not know sin; therefore, how is one held responsible? Was it as the law today, “ignorance of the LAW is no excuse?” Death reigned from Adam until Moses; what does that period entail?

From the beginning, I know the standard of Salvation has always been Grace through Faith Alone. Enoch pleased the Lord; he was singled out and taken. What am I missing?

 

 

---

^[1] Webster, Noah. Noah Webster’s first edition of An American dictionary of the English language. 2006: n. pag. Print.

To your questions.

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; (Ro 3:25)

 13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: 14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God (Heb 9:12–14)

We continue in Hebrews 10:1-4

1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

The blood of sacrifice animals could do three things:
1. It could temporarily cover sin and sins
2. It could cleanse the flesh
3. It was legitimate means to seal a Covenant or anoint

What is really could not do was (i) put away sins, and (ii) cleanse the conscience.
- If our Lord Jesus had been a mere man, and a sinner, He could have died for Himself. But then He would be dead and have had the just wages of sin (singular) and could not be resurrected
- If our Lord Jesus had been a mere man, and without sin, He could have died for the men around him.
- Because our Lord is divine, His works become eternal. He thus can be the firstborn of the creature, and the firstborn from the dead. He is "slain from the foundation of the world", and is the "first and the last". His sacrifice becomes valid then backwards in history and forward.
- Because the Church was IN Him, God can impute all Christ's privileges to them
- Because Christ is the mediator of the New Covenant (with Israel), He can apply His works to Israel
- Because He is the Creator, That is, the creature was IN Him, he can apply His works to creation. Abel's blood cries for revenge and the earth is cursed. His blood cries for reconciliation and God can make (i) a "regeneration" in the old creation, and (ii) all things pristine (lit. Gk. - "new") in the New Earth.

With or without Law, man has eaten from the Tree of Knowledge of GOOD and EVIL When you eat something it is absorbed into your being. God's intention was that the fruit of the Tree of Life would have infused the knowledge of His will without them having to "touch, see or smell evil". The Hebrew word "Yada" (meaning "know") can mean experimental knowledge, but primarily means to know by seeing, reflecting and thinking on. Its first mention is that Noah knew, without actually seeing or jumping into the water, that there was dry land by reflecting on the twig the dove brought back (Gen.8:11). 

Besides this "hands-on" knowledge of good and evil, the fallen man's spirit is fully functioning, and "conscience" is one part of the human spirit. Christianity at large says that Adam (and his offspring) are "spiritually dead". But this is not the case. Firstly, a spirit cannot die, and secondly, the unbelievers have as full use of the part sf their human spirit as the Believers do. Conscience is a part of the spirit and it works just as well in unbelievers. So much so that that it is the base that will be used at the White Throne to judge them (Rom.2:8-16). The thief comes at night. Why? His conscience tells him that theft is wrong. The thief runs when he sees bright lights or a police patrol.. The modern states of the Western World do not make adultery punishable. Why then is the adulteress galvanized to dress when she hears her husband come home unexpectedly?

It is worth contemplating why God did not give the Law of Moses to all men. The reason is that Israel were selected by God to have His "abode" there. To serve Him and to come close to Him, God provided a High Priest for an intermediatory. To create an holy environment with ritually clean servants, and to not have the earth defiled, God gave the 613 Laws. The Law is valid throughout, but it can somewhat be divided into moral Laws, dietary Laws, natural regulation and cultural Law. God might be severely against murder, but if a Pakistani wears clothes of mixed materials, God does not mind a wit. To the Jew it is forbidden. The Pakistani is under Noah's Covenant and not that of Sinai. He may take a bird AND its egg from the nest, but a Jew not. If it was not so tragic, it would be comical - Christians following the Law of Moses.

God gives a set of Laws to ONE Nation because He dwells WITH them. Others, not remotely invited to do the rituals contained in the Law, set up new Laws to accommodate the applying of the old Law. Just consider - God predicts Cyrus 100 years before he is born. When Cyrus conquers Babylon he is so enchanted with Jehovah that he drops the captivity of Judah. All are free to go and build God His House. How many go? 2.5%. The other 97.5%  don't care a wit about God's heart's desire. They stay in captivity and the end of this awful act is that they add a feast of the Law. The REAL LAW requires the to build God's House and DWELL THERE, and visit this House of God three times a year with your tithe.

Then along come the Christians and their God wants to dwell IN then. God declares the Law of Moses INADEQUATE for this great God. God allows His Son Jesus to establish a righteousness BEYOND Law. God wants to impute this righteousness but the Christians have a better plan. These uncircumcised ritually dirty people make a new religion where they discard half the Law of Moses, modify the other half, refuse to go to Jerusalem three times a year, and ignore the Feasts. Instead they embrace the feasts of pagan idol-demon-gods like the fertility goddess at Easter and "the way of the heathen" at Christmas (Jer.10). But God has declared the Law they propose to keep, "ABOLISHED" because it is  a"PARTITION" that destroys the unity of the New Man, never mind that they set out to establish a righteousness that God has declared useless, and shun the righteousness that God has approved - Jesus.

What will be the end of this? No wonder our Lord has feet of brass as He walks among the Churches. Brass covers the altar and came from the censors of Korah who was consumed by Jehovah's Fire for doing things his way.

[Vine Abider]

14 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

If people to would die to self... the flesh becomes a little pipsqueak! 

Of course by ourselves that's an impossibility . . . the only way is "If by the Spirit you put to death the practices of the body, you will live." (Rom 8:13)

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

I never advocated I was going to do that by myself.

The problem with lots of folks is... they won't allow the Holy Spirit to live in them and guide them which is always based on God's promises, warnings, and instructions.

It's a religious game that many play... they say they're Christians and smile and be nice and polite at church especially when the pastor is looking!

But when they get back home they take the new man off and hang him up in the closet and throw their bible in their with him... and put the old man back on to enjoy the pleasures of the flesh when they think nobody is looking.

They can fool some of the people much of the time... but they ain't fooling the Lord none of the time!

[Vine Abider]

2 minutes ago, Stan Murff said:

I never advocated I was going to do that by myself.
 

Just thought to emphasize that . . . 

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

This is why I'm the way I am now... in times past I tried doing it on my own, and just like Trump I experienced the competition handing me my backside in defeat! 

The devil made a monkee out of me just like those liberals made a monkee out of Trump!

There's no power in doing anything apart from the Lord... apart from the Lord all one can accomplish is defeat and failure.

The only way to victory is to be co-laborers with the Lord, accepting His whole counsel,  cooperating with Him, receiving His leading, following His example, conforming to His Image which is answer God's call to fellowship.

Living life any other way is human excrement and Brutha Paul so eloquently puts it.

[AdHoc]

23 minutes ago, Stan Murff said:

I never advocated I was going to do that by myself.

The problem with lots of folks is... they won't allow the Holy Spirit to live in them and guide them which is always based on God's promises, warnings, and instructions.

It's a religious game that many play... they say they're Christians and smile and be nice and polite at church especially when the pastor is looking!

But when they get back home they take the new man off and hang him up in the closet and throw their bible in their with him... and put the old man back on to enjoy the pleasures of the flesh when they think nobody is looking.

They can fool some of the people much of the time... but they ain't fooling the Lord none of the time!

There is no doubt that there are counterfeit Christians. The parable of the Wheat and the Tares show that an enemy sowed the Tares, that the Master of the field knew it, and it seems by the Master of the field's lack of blame upon anybody that he fully expected this. But at the end of the parable there is an event that few expositors comment on. After the Tares have been gathered and burned, there is a judgment that takes place in the kingdom. In the parable itself there but an ingathering to the Master's barn. But note the explanation to the disciples. In verse 40 the Tares are taken care of. But in verse 41 the angels are not sent to the field. they are sent to the Kingdom. Now, according to John 3:3 & 5 you cannot see nor enter the Kingdom without the rebirth. The Kingdom is made of born again ones.

The decision of the Master is not to collect Tares. They are already dealt with and cannot, by virtue of their origin, be the Kingdom. The decision of the Master is to clear his Kingdom of "those who offend and those who DO iniquity". This is a decision based on WORKS. Since there is no other party involved, those who "offend" and "do iniquity" must be Wheat. This is not the only place that members of the Kingdom are cast out.

A final event seems to seal the matter, and should be noted with alarm by Christians. James 5:6 says that the husbandman, the Master of the Field, waits long for the fruit. And 2nd Timothy says that he (the Master of the field) is first to enjoy the fruits. Added to this, God is the Lord of the harvest and the first and best tenth must go to His House (Deut.12). But the Master of the Field in Matthew 13 puts the whole crop, good and bad, into HIS BARN.

The separate judgment, the dividing those who offend, the burning and the rejection of some of the harvest indicate that among the Wheat all is not well.

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

8 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

The decision of the Master is to clear his Kingdom of "those who offend and those who DO iniquity". This is a decision based on WORKS.

Yes, those that do the works of the flesh will be cast out.

Those being led by the Holy Spirit or "sow to the Spirit" reap everlasting life.

This is another proof text that works against the OSAS position, glad you brought this up.


 

8 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

God is the Lord of the harvest and the first and best tenth must go to His House (Deut.12).

This is where we should want be to right there!



 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Stan Murff