Matter in Motion: Gravity Fluctuations

[RV_Wizard]

13 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Your denial is based on your extreme bias against ANY evidence that proves an old earth.

There is no evidence on the Bible for an old earth.

13 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

you seem to think those 2 words can be legitimately used to describe creation.

The rest of the world understands that Jeremiah was quoting Genesis for effect.  You, for whatever reason, can't grasp that.

13 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Gen 1:1 describes a complete and perfect universe and earth.

The rest of the world understands that the first sentence of Genesis is a summary of the creation to be described in subsequent verses.

13 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Whatever occurred that resulted in an uninhabitable wasteland obivously took out more than just earth.  So God put them all back.

For your 19th century heresy to be correct, the entire universe including all dry land had to be eradicated.  How, then, did the fossil record remain intact?  You seem to think God got it wrong and some other god wiped it all out so He had to start over.  This remains the dumbest heresy I've ever heard of.

13 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

I can't and won't even try to "explain a mysterious pre-existence of a world with no light, air, heat, stars, dry land".  Such a scenario never even existed because a "mysterious pre-existence of a world" never even existed.

And yet you CONTINUE to claim that it DID exist, that it was wiped out and that God had to start over.  This also requires God to LIE about the Fourth Commandment.  Should we believe you or God?  Both cannot be right.

13 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

 AFTER the earth BECAME AN UNINHABITABLE WASTELAND, God RESTORED what was damaged.  Why is that so impossible for you to grasp?

1. Because it's a stupid claim.

2. Because Genesis details a six-day creation.

3. Because God Himself verified a six-day creation.

4. Because Jesus, who was there, said that man and woman were created from the beginning.

5, Because it has no basis in science or the Bible, only in false doctrine.

6. Because it implies that God made an imperfect earth and had to start over.

7. Because no possible life could have existed prior to the creation of things that didn't exist until after verse 2.

13 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

By faith we understand that the universe was formed (katartizo) at God’s command,

Did God purchase a universe creating kit and then assemble it Himself, or did He speak the universe into existence and then form it into it's final state?  What, exactly, was it God said to Job, again?

13 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

I went back to how the 2 Hebrew words were used in ALL 3 texts,

Every translation you referenced was published after 1970.  They were also copyrighted, meaning they HAD TO  be materially different from the original text.  NOBODY buys the line you're selling.

13 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

In Ex 20:11 the word is "asah", which is consistently translated as MADE, and NEVER as CREATE.

We call that a distinction without a difference.

13 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

 The time gap was actually clearly understood by Moses

You spoke to Moses to verify this?  Otherwise, you're lying.  

13 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

The time gap belongs to God

Don't blame God for your 19th century heresy.

13 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Do you want to argue against the Bible?

You mean your misinterpretation of the Bible?  No thanks.  I'll stick with what the Bible teaches, not modern day heresies.

 

[FreeGrace]

9 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

FreeGrace said:

Your denial is based on your extreme bias against ANY evidence that proves an old earth.

There is no evidence on the Bible for an old earth.

Those with open eyes and ears and use them see the truth.  You've been shown.

9 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

The rest of the world understands that Jeremiah was quoting Genesis for effect. 

You bet he was!  He was warning the people of what was coming and he described it as TOTAL DESTRUCTION, which is obvious in Jer 4.  I wish you would read it.

There is no way Jeremiah would use words that describe total destruction in a text about creation.  How come you don't understand that?

9 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

You, for whatever reason, can't grasp that.

It is you that seem to be unable to grasp what is so simple to understand.

9 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

The rest of the world understands that the first sentence of Genesis is a summary of the creation to be described in subsequent verses.

Yes, the first sentence is about that.  However, the next sentence really says, "but the earth became an uninhabitable wasteland . . ."

Clearly showing an unknown time gap between creation and v.2.

9 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

For your 19th century heresy to be correct

You're just losing all credibility here by such a silly statement.  My FACTS come from the writing of Moses, about 1400 BC, Isaiah about 700 BC and Jeremiah about 600 BC.  I'm using the words THEY wrote.  That's why I don't bother with ANY English translations, except to note some of them were honest enough to translate "tohu wabohu" correctly in Gen 1:2.  The majority weren't honest or smart enough to know.

9 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

the entire universe including all dry land had to be eradicated.  How, then, did the fossil record remain intact?  You seem to think God got it wrong and some other god wiped it all out so He had to start over.  This remains the dumbest heresy I've ever heard of.

I'm so tired of all your fantasies about some mythical land that never existed.  

9 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

And yet you CONTINUE to claim that it DID exist, that it was wiped out and that God had to start over. 

That is what the Bible says, which is why I say it.  Original creation was perfect, and nothing like the fantasy you imagine.

9 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

This also requires God to LIE about the Fourth Commandment.  Should we believe you or God?  Both cannot be right.

I've repeatedly corrected YOUR error about that.  But is seems you aren't teachable on that point.

9 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

1. Because it's a stupid claim.

2. Because Genesis details a six-day creation.

3. Because God Himself verified a six-day creation.

Ex 20:11 uses the Hebrew word "asah" for "make", not create.  Maybe word meanings have no meaning for you, but they do in Genesis.  In Gen 1:1 "created" is 'bara'.  In Ex 20:11 the word is 'made', because the Hebrew is 'asah', unlike Gen 1:1.

9 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

4. Because Jesus, who was there, said that man and woman were created from the beginning.

You mean Mark 10:6?  Jesus was speaking of the beginning of the human race.  Not the universe.

9 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

5, Because it has no basis in science or the Bible, only in false doctrine.

Science acknowledges that the earth is much older than 6,000 years, so you comment here is quite bogus.

9 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

6. Because it implies that God made an imperfect earth and had to start over.

No, silly.  The earth was damaged and God didn't tell us by what or whom.  Why is that concept so hard for you to accept, other than your extreme bias regarding an old earth?

9 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

7. Because no possible life could have existed prior to the creation of things that didn't exist until after verse 2.

Just your own biased opinion.

9 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

Did God purchase a universe creating kit and then assemble it Himself, or did He speak the universe into existence and then form it into it's final state?  What, exactly, was it God said to Job, again?

Why do you feel the need to ask such asinine questions?  We know from Psa 33:6,9 that God is powerful enough to simply speak things into existence, including the universe.  Maybe you just don't believe that, and really do think that He couldn't do it all in one moment, so He "assembled" (built/made) the earth in steps or stages or by processes.  Well, I reject all that.  He simply spoke everything into existence immediately.  But then, for unexplained reasons, the earth BECAME an uninhabitable wasteland.  It's just too bad that you seem mad that God wouldn't tell you what happened, but He didn't.  So just let it go.

9 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

Every translation you referenced was published after 1970.

Yawn.  Why don't you leave all the AD dates and join me in 1400 BC, 700 BC and 600 BC to understand what Moses meant by "tohu wabohu"?

9 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

  They were also copyrighted, meaning they HAD TO  be materially different from the original text.  NOBODY buys the line you're selling.

Well, that's quite naive.  There are many who believe what I believe, because of the same FACTS that I've been presenting.  

9 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

You spoke to Moses to verify this?  Otherwise, you're lying. 

Why would I have to speak to Moses?  What kind of inane question is that?  But I have read what he wrote, and compared it to what Jeremiah and Isaiah wrote when using the VERY SAME TWO WORDS that Moses used, and there IS context with Jer and Isaiah.

9 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

Don't blame God for your 19th century heresy.

You're the one blaming God for not giving you the juicy details of how and why the earth became an uninhabitable wasteland.  So you reject it just because you weren't given what you seem to DEMAND what to be given.

9 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

You mean your misinterpretation of the Bible?  No thanks.  I'll stick with what the Bible teaches, not modern day heresies.

No, you'll stick with poorly translated English translations.  Not me.

[FreeGrace]

11 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

The rest of the world understands that Jeremiah was quoting Genesis for effect.  You, for whatever reason, can't grasp that.

I just couldn't resist another go round on what you said here.  😊

Amazing how close someone can be to truth yet be in strong opposition to it at the same time.

Absolutely both Jeremiah and Isaiah used the words "tohu wabohu" FOR EFFECT!!

They were warning their people of coming disaster, as in the land becoming an uninhabitable wasteland.  The VERY SAME TWO WORDS that Moses used in Gen 1:2 after writing "but the earth became . . .".

Moses was simply describing the state of the earth at a point later in time from v.1 so Jeremiah, FOR EFFECT, quoted what Moses wrote in Gen 1:2 to SCARE his people of the coming disaster.  

Unfortunately, the majority of English translators FAILED to grasp this "effect" that Jeremiah used in his warning.  They just simply translated the 2 Hebrew words the same lame way translators did with Gen 1:2.

But English translators had no such bias when translating Isa 34:11 

New International Version
The desert owl and screech owl will possess it; the great owl and the raven will nest there. God will stretch out over Edom the measuring line of chaos and the plumb line of desolation.

New Living Translation
It will be haunted by the desert owl and the screech owl, the great owl and the raven. For God will measure that land carefully; he will measure it for chaos and destruction.
Berean Standard Bible
The desert owl and screech owl will possess it, and the great owl and raven will dwell in it. The LORD will stretch out over Edom a measuring line of chaos and a plumb line of destruction.

King James Bible
But the cormorant and the bittern shall possess it; the owl also and the raven shall dwell in it: and he shall stretch out upon it the line of confusion, and the stones of emptiness.
Christian Standard Bible
Eagle owls and herons will possess it, and long-eared owls and ravens will dwell there. The LORD will stretch out a measuring line and a plumb line over her for her destruction and chaos.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
The desert owl and the screech owl will possess it, and the great owl and the raven will dwell there. The LORD will stretch out a measuring line and a plumb line over her for her destruction and chaos. 
Contemporary English Version
Owls, hawks, and wild animals will make it their home. God will leave it in ruins, merely a pile of rocks. 
Good News Translation
Owls and ravens will take over the land. The LORD will make it a barren waste again, as it was before the creation.   As in before creation of mankind.

Majority Standard Bible
The desert owl and screech owl will possess it, and the great owl and raven will dwell in it. The LORD will stretch out over Edom a measuring line of chaos and a plumb line of destruction.

NET Bible
Owls and wild animals will live there, all kinds of wild birds will settle in it. The LORD will stretch out over her the measuring line of ruin and the plumb line of destruction. 

[kwikphilly]

Brothers Brothers- how did this 2year old Thread about Gravity Fluctuation turn into an off Topic bicker fest?

Cmon now -either start " yet another " Thread to debate Young vs Old earth or make personal insults at each other in pm- better yet just take Captive all thoughts and subject them to the Obedience of Christ Jesus.....I expect much more and much better from both of you,dear Brothers

With love in Christ,Kwik

[NConly]

12 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

There is no evidence on the Bible for an old earth.

Help me ubderstand this verse

2nd Pet 3

5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

[kwikphilly]

14 hours ago, NConly said:

Help me ubderstand this verse

2nd Pet 3

5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

Well,what is old? ...  of course millions of years are old but so is 2000,4000 or 6000 - right ?

Still,it really is off Topic ,there are plenty of Threads regarding the subject that keeps coming up here

You responded quite early on about the fact that scientist missed the mark regarding a 20yr prediction  so how could you believe them about 15,000 yrs which is very true

So the Topic is not about how old or young the earth is but how it certainly is effected by the past and continues to shift,there's much more to atmospheric conditions ,sea levels and weather systems than just global warming or the earth "cooling" but as we go we do have much more data to explain the complexity of it all

I see changes in the landscape of my birthplace (Alaska) from photos from the 50s and compared to present day.....it is unrecognizable and that's only in less than one century- it's very interesting but we know that everything is temporary ,even physical life itself - everything here has a beginning and and end and so it is Written

I believe mankind would go( become extint )long before the earth  would become uninhabitable because of either wars or nano technology but God's Word Reveals that none of what science predicts will be " the end"

Praise God we Understand the end here is the Beginning of all things New❤️

[NConly]

8 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

Well,what is old? ...  of course millions of years are old but so is 2000,4000 or 6000 - right ?

I am old.

Some thinsg I stand hard and fast on other things I am not sure on. I read a lot here and see some make statements that imo need a question thrown in the mix. Does not mean I believe this or that just throwing fuel on the fire. Sorry for messing up the thread.

[kwikphilly]

1 minute ago, NConly said:

I am old.

Some thinsg I stand hard and fast on other things I am not sure on. I read a lot here and see some make statements that imo need a question thrown in the mix. Does not mean I believe this or that just throwing fuel on the fire. Sorry for messing up the thread.

Lol- me too,I'm old!

You didn't mess anything up.... it was already derailed......

[RV_Wizard]

On 1/4/2025 at 12:55 AM, kwikphilly said:

Well,what is old? ...  of course millions of years are old but so is 2000,4000 or 6000 - right ?

To understand a verse, take it in context.

2 Peter 3:3-7 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. (How can we believe the Lord is coming, when we've been waiting for generations and haven't seen it?)

For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: (This is the great flood, when everything that was on land perished.  Peter is using this example as proof that Christ WILL return and the destruction will come, because it has already happened once and we lean nothing from it.)

But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

What is in parenthesis is my OPINION, which I was asked for.  If you ever want the absolute truth, read the COMPLETE passage, and pray that the Holy Spirit reveals it to you.  A verse taken out of context can be twisted to mean whatever you want it to mean.

[kwikphilly]

@RV_Wizard

On Dec 29th,2024 you answered well,saying" The Topic of Revelation is for another Thread"

And that should of been that,the thing is "self control".....all members should try to keep in mind no one MUST reply to any comment,especially to continue on for the sake of bickering..... that is ALL I've witnessed since then and have very politely asked that it not continue-to bicker,or go off Topic it takes 2 or more..... the simple solution always is ' Take Captive your thoughts and subject them to the Obedience of Christ Jesus"

Personally ,I have no interest in anyone's opinion here but I do have interest in keeping Peace,ToS and if there is debate- debate the issue and not the person with insults and personal attack

So,if you or anyone else wants to insult anyone- refrain from posting

Thank you for your attention in this matter

Kwik