The 7 year tribulation

[Revelation Man]

On 10/19/2023 at 5:58 PM, Charlie744 said:

There are so many coments made about the 7 year tribulation. I would kindly ask if someone could show me where this 7 year tribulation period comes from. Thanks.

This is pretty easy stuff if we heed scriptures. So, according to Jesus ALL TIME is tribulation.

John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

So, if Jesus said this that means the Whole Church Age is tribulation, the warning to Smyrna told us this in Rev. 2:10 it states you will have tribulation 10 days (10 = COMPLETION or for the complete church age). So, all time on this earth is tribulation according to Jesus, that is where the Rev. 7:9-16 Saints come from. So, after the rapture, those 7 years will also be TRIBULATION, and the final 3.5 years will be the GREATEST EVER TRIBULATION. So, by Jesus own words every singe day, until he reign starts, will be tribulation. 

[Charlie744]

4 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

This is pretty easy stuff if we heed scriptures. So, according to Jesus ALL TIME is tribulation.

John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

So, if Jesus said this that means the Whole Church Age is tribulation, the warning to Smyrna told us this in Rev. 2:10 it states you will have tribulation 10 days (10 = COMPLETION or for the complete church age). So, all time on this earth is tribulation according to Jesus, that is where the Rev. 7:9-16 Saints come from. So, after the rapture, those 7 years will also be TRIBULATION, and the final 3.5 years will be the GREATEST EVER TRIBULATION. So, by Jesus own words every singe day, until he reign starts, will be tribulation. 

Where does this 7 years come from? 
 

Isn’t it found, or should it be found in Daniel?

Daniel speaks prophetically on what is going to happen. Revelation, which I know nothing about (have not yet studied it), speaks to what has happened- it must agree with Daniel. But Daniel must tell us what happened not Revelation. 
 
So, if these unscriptural 7 years are not in Daniel, they can not be in Revelation. 
 

Which brings us to the term “unscriptural.” The 7 years in Daniel represents the “set aside” period of the 7-62-1 sectioned periods that make up the 70 weeks. 
 
This was purposeful because it was meant to identify the events which take place in each of the timed periods. 
 

Gabriel only gave Daniel the restorative events for the two bookends (first and third timed sections). Meaning, he is telling us these periods are connected / not separated by 2000 years as the RCC created (7 year tribulation).

 

in the first of the 3 periods, all the physical elements of the “restoration” will be completed. They will be restored by the Jews. In the third period, the Messiah will fulfill all 6 of His requirements given to Him by God (9:24). These represent those elements that must also be “restored” and can only be restored by the Messiah. 
 

Jesus was baptized on the very first day of the 70th week of the prophecy. He could not arrive until the 69 weeks were concluded- everything had to be completely restored and await the last piece of furniture in the sanctuary. This was the Ark of the Covenant in the form of the Messiah. It was the first piece of furniture taken (hidden by Jeremiah before Babylon captivity), and the last piece to be restored by the coming Messiah. 
 

Despite being “cut off” in the “midst of the week” (last week of Daniel), He would still complete His mission (9:24). 
 

This is the Covenant He will complete or fulfill DURING (not for) the last week. This is why the 70 weeks were carved into 3 separate sections- so we could identify those restorative items that would be restored by the Jews versus those that could only be restored by Jesus. The whole 70 week prophecy is to physically restore Jerusalem and the Jews back to pre-Babylon and to spiritually restore mankind back to the garden.  
 
Only the Messiah could fulfill 9:24, but He had to wait until the Jews restored the physical. 
 

The 7 year tribulation theory removed the Messianic work that was assigned to the Messiah and sent it 2000 years in the future and attributed it to a mystical anti-Christ figure (not found in Daniel.

This is all in Daniel and reveals the truly evil work of the little horn (papacy). 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 21, 2023 by Charlie744

[Revelation Man]

52 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Where does this 7 years come from? 
 

Isn’t it found, or should it be found in Daniel?

Well, that's easy, since God ordains time, and Jesus said all time on earth will be tribulation, and the Church is raptured Pre Trib there is a reason God has it all planned like this, The church was inserted into God's original plans because Israel failed to repent and accept their Messiah, the 70th week penance will come once Israel signs an Agreement with a Kingdom the "prince to come" of Dan. 9:27 is over (E.U.) and thus that Agreement, IMHO, is much simpler than most think, the Jews will never follow a Gentile as their Messiah, it was never that anyway, John 5:43 was about 70 AD. The Agreement is simply this, DRUM ROLL, Israel joins the E.U. after the Gog & Magog war. God's anger rises again, the 70th week penance has to be paid, THIS sets of the Rapture also, so there is no gap between the Rapture and the agreement because the agreement sets it all off. The 2000 some odd years of the Church Age Tribulation will be over, where millions of our brothers died, were tortured, but we overcame with the gospel.

So, the 70th week will begin, well, Jesus said ALL TIME is Tribulation, so that 7 years is tribulation also, of course. And the last 3.5 years is the Greatest Ever Tribulation. This understanding can nit be defeated unless Jesus lied.

 

1 hour ago, Charlie744 said:

Daniel speaks prophetically on what is going to happen. Revelation, which I know nothing about (have not yet studied it), speaks to what has happened- it must agree with Daniel. But Daniel must tell us what happened not Revelation. 
 
So, if these unscriptural 7 years are not in Daniel, they can not be in Revelation. 

Well, I remember chatting with you a few years back, if you still haven't read Revelation you do not want to but think we should fill you in somehow, I don't get it tbh. Daniel is not the be all end all, but he does give the 70 weeks, after Jesus died was 69 weeks, then the prince to come makes an Agreement for ONE WEEK at the very end. That is the 70th week. 

 

 

[Charlie744]

10 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Well, that's easy, since God ordains time, and Jesus said all time on earth will be tribulation, and the Church is raptured Pre Trib there is a reason God has it all planned like this, The church was inserted into God's original plans because Israel failed to repent and accept their Messiah, the 70th week penance will come once Israel signs an Agreement with a Kingdom the "prince to come" of Dan. 9:27 is over (E.U.) and thus that Agreement, IMHO, is much simpler than most think, the Jews will never follow a Gentile as their Messiah, it was never that anyway, John 5:43 was about 70 AD. The Agreement is simply this, DRUM ROLL, Israel joins the E.U. after the Gog & Magog war. God's anger rises again, the 70th week penance has to be paid, THIS sets of the Rapture also, so there is no gap between the Rapture and the agreement because the agreement sets it all off. The 2000 some odd years of the Church Age Tribulation will be over, where millions of our brothers died, were tortured, but we overcame with the gospel.

So, the 70th week will begin, well, Jesus said ALL TIME is Tribulation, so that 7 years is tribulation also, of course. And the last 3.5 years is the Greatest Ever Tribulation. This understanding can nit be defeated unless Jesus lied.

 

Well, I remember chatting with you a few years back, if you still haven't read Revelation you do not want to but think we should fill you in somehow, I don't get it tbh. Daniel is not the be all end all, but he does give the 70 weeks, after Jesus died was 69 weeks, then the prince to come makes an Agreement for ONE WEEK at the very end. That is the 70th week. 

 

 

Thanks. I still have yet to study Revelation. I’m just spent literally 5 years trying to understand Daniel and I do believe most of today’s interpretations (major ones) are in error. They focus on the physical kingdoms not the prophetic messages within those kingdoms.

Hopefully, I can soon turn my attention to Revelation since Daniel is the key to understanding Revelation. 
 

Since there are no tanks, middles , etc., in Daniel nor are there any prophecies about the USA, China, Russia, the EU, Islam, etc., they will lol not be found in Revelation. 
 

There will always be wars and rumors of wars, that is nothing new and will continue until the end of time. That is our human nature. But God through Daniel speaks about the war the little horn has waged against His people, His Word and Himself. Either we accept and obey His commands and worship the Messiah or another image, gospel, etc. And God had clearly spent much of His prophetic capital on identifying this little horn in Daniel. 

The 7 years was taken from Daniel and sent to the future by the little horn, however, this represents the last week of the 70 weeks when the Messiah will fulfill His mission (9:24). 
 

The 4th Great Jubilee began in 457 BC and was for 490 literal years ending in 33/34 AD. This last week or 7 years represents the carved out week of the 70 (7-62-1), for the Messiah to complete His 6 requirements. After the 69th week ended, He arrived on the very first day of the last week (Daniel’s 70th week) when He was baptized in the Jordan. This began His ministry. But He was cut off in the middle of this last week. Yet, He still fulfilled ALL 6 requirements. 

Consequently, the last week of Daniel’s 70 weeks prophecy was fulfilled- not in a pure time view because He was crucified, however, Hs completed His God given mission in those 3.5 years. 
 

 

 

[FJK]

18 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Agreed, so what is the genesis for the 7 year tribulation?

I think that may be something we'll only know, or come to realize, retrospectively after it has come upon us.  It will definitely be a major change and people usually only recognize a change after it has happened, not while it is slowly developing.  That's why so many things catch us by surprise without our expecting them.

This solution, of course, is to live your life so that you're ready for anything that comes when it comes, be it good or bad, whether we are expecting it or not, and I find that true on every level of life.

[Shilohsfoal]

3 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Thanks. I still have yet to study Revelation. I’m just spent literally 5 years trying to understand Daniel and I do believe most of today’s interpretations (major ones) are in error. They focus on the physical kingdoms not the prophetic messages within those kingdoms.

Hopefully, I can soon turn my attention to Revelation since Daniel is the key to understanding Revelation. 
 

Since there are no tanks, middles , etc., in Daniel nor are there any prophecies about the USA, China, Russia, the EU, Islam, etc., they will lol not be found in Revelation. 
 

There will always be wars and rumors of wars, that is nothing new and will continue until the end of time. That is our human nature. But God through Daniel speaks about the war the little horn has waged against His people, His Word and Himself. Either we accept and obey His commands and worship the Messiah or another image, gospel, etc. And God had clearly spent much of His prophetic capital on identifying this little horn in Daniel. 

The 7 years was taken from Daniel and sent to the future by the little horn, however, this represents the last week of the 70 weeks when the Messiah will fulfill His mission (9:24). 
 

The 4th Great Jubilee began in 457 BC and was for 490 literal years ending in 33/34 AD. This last week or 7 years represents the carved out week of the 70 (7-62-1), for the Messiah to complete His 6 requirements. After the 69th week ended, He arrived on the very first day of the last week (Daniel’s 70th week) when He was baptized in the Jordan. This began His ministry. But He was cut off in the middle of this last week. Yet, He still fulfilled ALL 6 requirements. 

Consequently, the last week of Daniel’s 70 weeks prophecy was fulfilled- not in a pure time view because He was crucified, however, Hs completed His God given mission in those 3.5 years. 
 

 

 

Revelation and Daniel both agree on the amount of time the saints are persecuted in Israel .The amount of time is 3.5 years.

A time,times,and a half.

Daniel 7

²⁴ And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

²⁵ And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

 

Revelation 13

⁵ And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

⁶ And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

⁷ And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

 

 

No one can give you scripture showing a 7 year tribulation because there are none.Revelation Man will write you a four page essay about the 7 year tribulation but can not show you a single verse saying there is one because there are none.

 

 

This tribulation of the saints begins in Israel 42 months before Christ comes and ends at his coming.

 

Mathew 10:23

When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

Edited October 21, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[Diaste]

8 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

What does that mean? That is math. The 70 weeks were consecutive weeks. There is nothing that remotely hints of a gap. This was ALL created by the Jesuits in the 16th century to remove the label of the “little horn” from the papacy.  

"10And the gospel must first be proclaimed to all the nations. "

"And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come."

Gap.

 

8 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Consequently, they misinterpreted “he” in 9:27a to be some mystical anti-Christ figure that will come right before the mystical 7 year period/tribulation. They essentially took the last week of Daniel’s 70 weeks and threw it into the future (2000 years) meaning the little horn could not be the papacy because he is yet to come. 

"Then the people of the prince who is to come ."

Not Jesus. 

" 27And he will confirm a covenant with many for one week,."

This 'he' is the 'prince who is to come'.

"but in the middle of the week he will put an end to sacrifice and offering."

Again, 'the prince who is to come'.

 

 

[Dave Watchman]

10 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

The 70th week was fulfilled!

I agree.

10 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Dennis, the start of the prophecy was on 457BC. It was set to end in 490 years or around 33/34 AD. If you look into Daniel, Gabriel PURPOSELY told Daniel the first and third events that would occur of the three separate time periods of 7-62-1 or total of 70 weeks. 

I agree 100%. You and I both know we are right. Early in Mark Jesus said that the "time" was fulfilled. The 7 and 62 weeks were fulfilled in 27AD. I can even google "spring phenomena", or look at timeanddate calendars and seen the new moon count for Passover week and find Good Friday April 7, 30AD. Jesus died in the middle of that "week".

But there's still a way, and other reasons, why the other side can be correct too. There still must be another final 70th "week" happening in our time.

I wouldn't want it to be a thing to worry about though. Like what Revelation man was saying, that word: "tribulation", might be throwing us off.

Peaceful Sabbath.

 

 

 

 

[Montana Marv]

13 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

The 70th week was fulfilled! The Messiah fulfilled all six of His God given requirements (9:24) despite being crucified. “It is finished.”

The six tasks are for Israel to fulfill and receive.  And when fulfilled, they will see the one who they have pierced.  And all this near the Second Coming.  The 70th Week is finalized near the Second Coming.  One full prophetic week is ahead of us in the future.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Charlie744]

3 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Revelation and Daniel both agree on the amount of time the saints are persecuted in Israel .The amount of time is 3.5 years.

A time,times,and a half.

Daniel 7

²⁴ And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

²⁵ And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

 

Revelation 13

⁵ And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

⁶ And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

⁷ And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

 

 

No one can give you scripture showing a 7 year tribulation because there are none.Revelation Man will write you a four page essay about the 7 year tribulation but can not show you a single verse saying there is one because there are none.

 

 

This tribulation of the saints begins in Israel 42 months before Christ comes and ends at his coming.

 

Mathew 10:23

When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

I certainly agree with you there is no 7 year tribulation. The genesis of this theory comes from the same “little horn” identified in Daniel quite clearly - the papacy. 
 

Jesuit priest Rebera (spelling close). Google him.