Eating Unclean Food Is an Abomination to the Lord!

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

29 minutes ago, Bro.Tan said:

Paul said in (Phil. 2:12) Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Now if you need not work, then why is Paul telling you to “WORK” out your own salvation, and pay close attention because he also says with “fear and trembling”.

 

This appears to show we work out what is being worked in us by God (as shown to us in the following verse there)

Phil 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

The fear and trembling there is also shown us in how they received Titus also

2 Cr 7:15 And his inward affection is more abundant toward you, whilst he remembereth the obedience of you all,  how with fear and trembling ye received him.

In both places they are in a state on obedience (not of disobedience) walking in the will of God (who was working in them)

Both examples show their obedience here

Phil 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed,

And here

2 Cr 7:15 And his inward affection is more abundant toward you, whilst he remembereth the obedience of you all, 

I would think the same kind of fear would be similar to what is shown us in the Psalm concerning the assembly of the saints

Psalm 89:7 God is greatly to be feared in the assembly of the saints, and to be had in reverence of all them that are about him.

 

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

2 hours ago, Bro.Tan said:

For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD. (Isaiah 66:15-17) The Lord says' by the mouth of Isaiah that those that eat swine's flesh (pork) shall be consumed. 

Just in case we have forgotten who this Lord is, let us go to II Thessalonians chapter one, and start at the sixth verse and we will see that it is Jesus that Isaiah is referring to and not the Father. 

Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; (II Thessalonians 1:6-9) 

Note what the eighth verse states, "In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God." Paul was quoting Isaiah the 66th chapter and the 15th verse, where it states, "For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire." These individuals that receive the Lord's vengeance know Him not and obey not the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. The dietary law is part of the commandments. (He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.) (I John 2:4.) 

 

This verse here

Isaiah 66:1 Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool:where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

And this is quoted by Stephen in Acts 7:49 its followed by his comments

Acts 7:53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

Acts 5:54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

Acts 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

Acts 7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

Acts 7:58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.

Saul (now Paul) us writing 2 Thes

You quote Isaiah 66:1 but do not take it up in Acts 7:49 where its found, and jump forward Isaiah 66:17 picking it up at those who sanctifiy and purify themselves in gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD. 

Stopping before the mention of his gather all nations and tongues

Isaiah 66:18 For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory.

and then into 2 Thes 1:9 "In flaming fire taking vengeance" 

But if we start here it says

2 Thes 1:3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth;

These are who are enduring persecutions and tribulations

2 Thes 1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:

2 Thes 1:5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

And here it is, it is a righteous thing with God to recompense these

2 Thes 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

2 Thes 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

2 Thes 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

2 Thes 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

2 Thes 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

I don't see how the flaming fire is recompensing anyone for what they are eating there but of them "which trouble you" are those who are mentioned here there

As they are here

Acts 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

The same as here

Gal 5:10 I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be.

And lastly here

2 Thes 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

2 Thes 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

I do not see anything dietary going on between them as they are woven into each place where we can find their present context and what is going on there, but I do see what resembles  a little Acts:15:24 everywhere between them

 

 

 

 

Edited November 15, 2023 by AFlameOfFire

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

4 hours ago, Bro.Tan said:

Sorry that type of thinking is over with, and there no such thing as Jewish according the Bible. In the scriptures it's written in Numbers 15:16 One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.

Paul says in Ephesians 2: 11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 that at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 but now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20and are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21in whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

 

‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:14

I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but to the one who thinks something is unclean, to that person it is unclean.

 

 

‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:14‬ ‭

Having canceled the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

 

 

‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:16‭-‬17‬ ‭

Therefore, no one is to act as your judge in regard to food and drink, or in respect to a festival or a new moon, or a Sabbath day— [17] things which are only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

 

 

The New Testament shows us that we have freedom the Jewish people didn't have. Paul told Jews who believed in Jesus that things were different. He never once told people to follow kosher. If he did, please show me.

 

 

 

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

4 hours ago, Bro.Tan said:

I agree with all that, but with all that being said, we must still the commandments, statues and judgements. Jesus said in (Matt. 19:16-17) (v.16) And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? That’s what we are all trying to obtain correct, eternal life? (v.17) And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. Now if you want to enter into eternal life you most keep the commandments. Sounds like a little work to me.

If we write out what is said here, notice he asks "WHICH"? 

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which?

Mat 19-19  Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Mat 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

Notice Jesus doesn't tell him the dietary laws

Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Mat 19:22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

And we know that sorrow of the world worketh death (to be repented of)

1 John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

 

 

 

Edited November 15, 2023 by AFlameOfFire

[Revelation Man]

5 hours ago, Bro.Tan said:

Paul said in (Phil. 2:12) Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Now if you need not work, then why is Paul telling you to “WORK” out your own salvation, and pay close attention because he also says with “fear and trembling”.

Paul said in (Heb. 6:10-11) (v.10) For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister. (v.11) And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to full assurance of hope unto the end: God is not going to forget your works, nor your labor of love toward his name. But you need to show these same works diligence to have full assurance of hope unto the end. Hope of what? Hope of eternal life. To the end of what? To the end of your life or to the coming of the Lord. 

 

We are under Grace, not the Law.

If you can't figure that out I am afraid no one can help you.

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

In agreement with grace (not meats) here is another verse combo that works between them

Hebrews 13:9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

Mark 7:19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats

Grace for the heart and meats for the belly

 

[AdHoc]

On 11/14/2023 at 12:53 AM, Anne2 said:

And????

If you return to your previous posts you will see that the subject matter I answered was;
1. That although the Promises to Abraham are strung out over several Chapters, there is but ONE Covenant made with Abraham. He sacrificed once to ratify this Covenant, and the rest of the Bible says that God has not forgotten His Covenant (SINGULAR) with Abraham and his seed.

I then pointed out that your statement about the Church coming out of the New Covenant must be reconsidered because the New Covenant is made with Israel ALONE. In the process of explaining why Christians tend to think what you think, you admitted that you knew not about ratification by blood.
2. I posted scripture that showed that all Covenants and the Tabernacle must be subject to blood if a holy God was to have this relationship with sinful man.

Then you answer by saying "and???", and introduce the two priesthoods. The trouble is, if you start in mid-sentence, you can prove anything. The word "For" at the beginning of verse 12 shows that verse 12 is a conclusion. And this conclusion is NOT a change of Law. The book of Hebrews was written to ex-Jews who had turned to Christ, but after persecution and loss of possessions, were on the point of returning to Moses. The Old wine was better than the New wines - says Luke 5:39. Under Moses an obedient man was blessed. Under Jesus a man must forsake his goods. So the author of Hebrews is showing the superiority of our Lord Jesus. One of them was His Priesthood, as opposed to the Aaronic.

On 11/14/2023 at 12:53 AM, Anne2 said:

So was the covenant made with Moses. 

Heb 7:12  For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
13  For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
18  For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
19  For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
20  And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:
21  (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)
22  By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

The conclusion drawn in this text is NOT a change of Law. It concludes that Law established Aaron of Levi as High Priest and if Jesus took His place IT WOULD NECESSITATE A CHANGE OF LAW - which is not the case. Aaron and his firstborn remain High Priest - BUT OF AN EARTHLY TABERNACLE. Jesus Christ, being of Judah, CANNOT be High Priest of this Tabernacle by Law. Rather, He is High Priest of the heavenly tabernacle (the one which Moses must copy), and His ORDER is not Levitical but from Melchizedek. And in that Levi, while still in the loins of Abraham, paid tithes to Melchizedek, it shows that Christ's Priesthood is superior to the Levitical.

I judge that we have drifted off the meaning of the OP, so I suggest we leave this matter for another day. If you would like to have the last word, that is fine. I won't answer your posting - not out of discourtesy, but to allow a free discussion on the Christian's diet. If scripture says, in 1st Timothy 4 that the forbidding of any foods is a doctrine of  demons, we'd better get it straight.

[AdHoc]

On 11/14/2023 at 3:25 AM, NConly said:

I do not agree with much of this post.

Fair enough. Thank you for your honesty. Go well bro.

[FJK]

8 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

We are under Grace, not the Law.

That's true, but does being under Grace actually mean?

Are we freed from the law to do anything we wish without penalty?

This merits a good deal of thought.

[other one]

49 minutes ago, FJK said:

That's true, but does being under Grace actually mean?

Are we freed from the law to do anything we wish without penalty?

This merits a good deal of thought.

If you are saved and under Grace, you have confessed Jesus as your Lord and required to do what he has told us to do.    We are to follow his two laws, along with repenting and being baptized, not the ten, or the 613 ordinances.

If you live his two laws you are not free to do anything bad or evil.   Actually with the Holy Spirit on board you quickly not even want to.