7 Churches in Revelation

[Charlie744]

1 hour ago, JoeCanada said:

Hi Charlie,

Well I do not know how I missed this topic.

I searched for "Letters to the 7 Churches" around the end of November but found nothing. Had I delayed my search a few weeks I would have found your post.

I began writing a paper on this topic and was almost finished when something happened with my computer and I lost it all. So back to square one. So frustrating that I neglected to save it. Live and learn!............ I'm in the process of rewriting it and should be finished soon.

Here are some points that are key understandings related to the 7 letters:

... The Letters to the 7 Churches (L7C) were written in apocalyptic language; there is no other section of the Bible that is related to Christian living written in this type of language

... The L7C's contain numerous Old Testament and New Testament references and symbols which apply to the end times

... Revelations purpose is to explain the Book of Daniel. The concept of including advice to local churches in John's time is out of place. ( I will explain this in my paper)

... There are numerous references within the L7C's to end-time events 

... There were many more than just 7 churches in Asia Minor, some larger and more influential. Why were these seven singled out to receive instruction from Jesus. 

Thanks for posting this topic.

 

Joe, I am soooooo sorry to hear you lost all your work. It must have been heart breaking!

I hope you will be able to share your thoughts on Revelation—- Although I know nothing about Revelation, it does appear to have a definite structure to it. 
I am spending my time trying to unlock that structure … 
 

I also see the same thing you do… Daniel is prophetic while Revelation is looking back. I think just about all the symbols in Revelation are found in the OT- many from Daniel. 
 
I have found that as one moves from chapter 1 through 12 in Daniel, God uses much more symbolic/ figurative / spiritual, etc., language. Certainly the earlier chapters have actors and events that can be found in our history books. But not so in the later chapters as they include prophecies about the Messiah  and His plan of salvation. This is why (imo) so many interpretations in Daniel are wrong- folks continue to apply the “historical” approach to interpret Daniel in all 12 chapters.

I think Revelation is perhaps entirely symbolic, and it looks backwards, so it will require a very special and very difficult approach to unpack it. 
 

Another thing… not sure of course, but just as with Daniel, I expect Revelation is not written in a chronological manner. In many chapters of Daniel there is a “dream or vision like” section (first section of a chapter that is a “summary” of what will take place and a second section labeled an “interpretation” section that offers the details that must be placed WITHIN the “summary” section- hence, not in chronological order.

i am wondering if the many “7’s” found in Revelation are not chronological events but may serve as “detail like” events that should be placed within a particular “summary” section… 

Well, you can see from this response just how difficult and confusing this book of Revelation is coming across to me. 
 

But the one thought I came away with after studying / writing the “New Interpretation of Daniel” is that if it did not happen in Daniel, it will not happen (be found) in Revelation. Daniel shows us what will take place so Revelation cannot conflict between Daniel … it may just be like the difference in Daniel between chapters 2,7 and 8—— God is writing about the same 4 kingdoms but used very different symbols. I believe Revelation is / will be the same only it will bring forward those symbols found throughout the OT. 
 

I certainly look forward to any of your thoughts and interpretations on Revelation. Are you intending to write your own commentary?

Thanks again Joe and best wishes always, Charlie 

[WilliamL]

On 12/7/2023 at 6:59 PM, Charlie744 said:

Could these 7 churches serve as the "structure" where the remaining chapters in Revelation are placed? I have a feeling the 7 seals, 7 trumpets and the 7 bowls might be 3 different views that take place during these 7 churches...?

Any thoughts?

Revelation 4:1 answers your question quite clearly:

Revelation 4:1 After these things I [John] looked, and behold, a door having been opened in heaven. And I heard the first voice which I [had] heard as of a trumpet speaking with me, saying, “Come up here, and I will show thee things which must take place after these things.”

After WHAT things? The things (thus the times) of the 7 churches. Ending with the Laodicean era:

" Immediately “after these things” of this materially-wealthy but spiritually-unprofitable church of Revelation 3, there will come the events of Revelation 4:1 and following, wherein God’s throne of judgment is set in place, being surrounded by the 24 Elders. We can reasonably conclude that those things are near to come, because this latter-day church has been corrupting itself and diminishing before our eyes. "

93. The 24 Elders of Revelation, Part 2: The Time of Their Appearance     https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/2946-the-24-elders-of-revelation-part-2-the-time-of-their-appearance/

[Guest Stormy Monday]

On 12/29/2023 at 2:20 AM, Charlie744 said:

Dougg, I believe you have this backwards. The papacy was considered the little horn up to the Reformation. The RCC commissioned a Jesuit priest named Ribera to construct an alternative interpretation to their being viewed as the little horn. Please google this priest - he is not a fabrication. 
 

There is no “anti-Christ” individual, but the evil one is very real - and God has identified him in Daniel 7,8,9, and 11. 

How can the papacy be the little horn when Daniel clearly specifies it to emerge from Greece?

Yes there is an anti-Christ individual.

First. This is the correct translation of 1John 2:18...

“Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that THE Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour”.

The word THE IS in the originals.

He Will Blaspheme God
He Claims to be God and is Worshiped

He Will Display Miraculous Powers

The Anti-Christ Comes Back to Life

The Anti-Christ Rules in Full Authority

The Anti-Christ will Control the Economy of the Arab World

The Anti-Christ Desecrates God’s Temple

The Anti-Christ’s Attempts the Destruction of Israel

He Causes Mid Eastern Armies to Fight Against Christ

The anti-Christ has a Final Destiny

________________________________________

Here are SOME of the names I found on-line attributed to the anti-Christ...

Ps. 5-6 The Bloody and Deceitful Man

Ps. 10:2-4 The Wicked One

Ps. 10:18 The Man of the Earth

Ps. 52:1 The Mighty Man

Ps. 53:3 The Enemy

Ps. 74:8-10 The Adversary

Ps. 111:6 The Head of Many Countries

Ps. 140:1 The Violent Man

Is. 10:5-12 The Assyrian

Is. 14:2 The King of Babylon

Is. 14:12 The Sun of the Morning

Is. 16:4-5 The Spoiler (also in Jer. 6;26)

Is. 22:25 The Nail

Is. 25:5 The Branch of the Terrible Ones

Ez. 21:25-27 The Profane Wicked Prince of Israel

Dan. 7:8 The Little Horn

Dan. 9:26 The Prince That Shall Come

Dan. 11:121 The Vile Person

Dan. 11:36 The Willful King

Zec. 11:16-17 The Idol Shepherd

2 Thess. 2:3 The Man of Sin

2 Thess. 2:3 The Son of Perdition

2 Thess. 2:8 The Lawless One

Rev. 9:11 The Angel of the Bottomless Pit

John 5:43 Another Coming in His Own Name

Dan. 8:23 The King of Fierce Countenance

Matt. 24:15 The Abomination of Desolation

Dan. 9:27 The Desolator

Ezek. 28:12 The King of Tyre

Jer. 4:6-7 The Lion

Jer. 4:6-7 The destroyer of the nations

Is. 14:12 Lucifer

Edited February 15, 2024 by Stormy Monday

[Guest Stormy Monday]

Name, Title, Symbol, Type for the Antichrist	Description	Scripture Reference
Abomination (G946) of Desolation (G2050)	Detestation of Idolatry that Lays Waste	Mat 24:15;
Abomination (H8251) that makes desolate (H8074)	Idolatry that Devastates	Dan 11:31;
Adversary (H6862)	Opponent, Antithesis of God and Good	Psalm 74:8-10; Isa 59:58-59; Lam 4:12; Amos 3:11
Angel (G32) of the Bottomless Pit (G12)	Angel destined for the center of the earth;	Rev 9:11;
AntiChrist (G473 + G5547)	An Opposite Messiah	1 Jn 2:22;
Assyrian (H804)	A potential source for the origin of the Antichrist	Isa 10:5; Isa 14:25:
Beast (G2342)	Wild Animal	Rev 11:7, 13; Rev 19:19-20;
Belial (H1100)	Wickedness, evil, worthless	Nah 1:11, 1;15
Bloody (H1818) man and Deceitful (H4820) Man	Bloody as loss to cause death	Psalm 5:6
Branch (H2159) of the Terrible (H6184)	A pruned twig of power, oppression and violence	Isa 25:5;
Chief (H7218) Prince (5387)	Head Ruler	Eze 38:2;
Crooked (H1281) Serpent (H5175)	The fugitive serpent	Job 26:13; Isa 27:1;
Cruel One (H394)	Terrible, Violent, Deadly	Jer 30:14;
Deceitful (H4820) Man	Deceiver, Falsehoods	Psalm 5:6
Destroyer (H4873) of the Gentiles (H1471(	Destroyer of foreign nations	Jer 4:7;
Enemy (H341)	Hater of God	Ps 55:3; Jer 30:14;
Evil (H7451) Man (H120)	Bad and evil man	Ps 140:1;
Father of lies	Originator of Deception	Jn 8:44; 2;
Great (G3172) Star (G792)	Mighty & Strong Star	Rev 8:10;
Head Over Many Countries	Leader of the earth	Psalms 110:6
Idol (H457) Shepherd (H7473)	Worthless good for nothing shepherd	Zech 11:17;
King (H4428)	World Ruler;	Dan 11:36;
King (H4428) of Princes (H8269)	Ruler of the underworld captains/rulers	Hos 8:10;
King (H4428) of Babylon (H894)	Ruler of Confusion and Chaos (Babel)	Isa 14:4-20;
King (H4428) of fierce (H5794) countenance (H6440)	Strong Face King	Dan 8:23;
Lion (H738)	Violent Beast	Jer 4:7;
Little (H2192) Horn (H7162)	Small Rising Ruler	Dan 7:8:11; Dan 7:21-26; Dan 8:9-12; Dan 8:23-25;
Man (G444) of Sin (G266)	Human of Offence/Sin	2 Ths 2:3
Man (H582) of the Earth (H776)	Mortal of Earth	Ps 10:18;
Merchant (H3667) with Balances of Deceit (H4820)	A Canaanite with unfair deceitful scales	Hos 12:7;
Mighty Man (H1368)	Powerful warrior	Ps 52:1;
Nail (H3489)	He who thought he was secure	Isa 22:25;
Prince (H5057) that shall come (H935)	Future Ruler	Dan 9:26;
Prince (H5057) of Tyrus (H6865)	Ruler of the Rock	Eze 28:2-10;
Profane (H2491) Wicked (H7563) Prince (H5387) of Israel (H3478)	Pierced King Israel	Eze 21:25-27;
Proud (H3093) Man (H1397)	Arrogant Warrior	Hab 2:5;
Rod (H7626) of (my) Anger	A Ruler with or of anger	Isa 10:5;
Son (G5207) of Perdition (G684)	Son of Ruin, Loss, Waste	2 Ths 2:3;
Son (H1121) of the Morning (H7837)	Lucifer son of early light (morning)	Isa 14:12;
Spoiler (H7703)	Large strong person	Isaiah 16:4;
Vile Person (H959)	Someone disesteemed	Dan 11:21:
Vine (G288) of the Earth (G1093)	False Vine of the Soil (a weed)	Rev 14:18);
Violent (H2555) Man (H376)	Incarnate man of violence	Ps 140:1, 11;
Wicked (G459)	Lawless Man	2 Ths 2:8;
Wicked One (H7563)	Morally wrong man	Ps 9:17; Ps 10:2; Isa 11:4; Jer 30:23;