Holiness, anyone?

[enoob57]

30 minutes ago, Ausie 52 said:

Paul tells us though,"And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires" Gal 5:24 NKJV.

Paul's own witness of this:
Romans 7:18 (KJV)

[18] For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

[19] For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

[20] Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

[21] I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

[22] For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

[23] But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

[24] O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

[25] I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

This is why the edification from Paul here:
Galatians 5:16 (KJV)

[16] This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

[17] For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

 

[D. Adrien]

Walking in holiness has a carnal component otherwise why would the mark of the beast be a problem? To exclude a physical aspect would negate the laws of immorality as well. Sexual immorality would be no big deal.

[Ausie 52]

23 minutes ago, D. Adrien said:

Walking in holiness has a carnal component otherwise why would the mark of the beast be a problem? To exclude a physical aspect would negate the laws of immorality as well. Sexual immorality would be no big deal.

Could you explain what you mean. I don't want to misunderstand you.

[D. Adrien]

Sure.  A person seeking to walk in holiness cannot ignore the need for being a doer of the law. The law is spiritual as magnified by Jesus in Mat. 5,6 and 7. James also says that it is the doer of the law that is justified. If seeking to spiritualize the holiness of walking with God is taken to the extreme the physical requirement of practicing Christianity is ignored. (Phil. 4:8-9).

I hope this clarifies what I'm trying to articulate and I hope I do not come across as combative, it is not my wish to.

[Ausie 52]

46 minutes ago, D. Adrien said:

Sure.  A person seeking to walk in holiness cannot ignore the need for being a doer of the law. The law is spiritual as magnified by Jesus in Mat. 5,6 and 7. James also says that it is the doer of the law that is justified. If seeking to spiritualize the holiness of walking with God is taken to the extreme the physical requirement of practicing Christianity is ignored. (Phil. 4:8-9).

I hope this clarifies what I'm trying to articulate and I hope I do not come across as combative, it is not my wish to.

True holiness will be very practical. Just look at the ministry of the Wesley brothers. They emphasized holy living in their preaching and the results were lives changed by the Gospel, schools established, orphanages started. It has been said that the revival started by the Wesley's save England from revolution.

[Neighbor]

Hi Aussie, 

There is a recent article, a short dissertation  by Michael Bird on Holiness that might make for a basis of discussion on the subject of holiness and the pursuit of it;

PRACTICAL THEOLOGYSPIRITUAL FORMATIONTHEOLOGY

Holiness: A Short Guide to a Complicated Doctrine

Michael F. Bird  a 21 min read  from 6 months ago and available online at the Logos Bible Study App.

"Michael F. Bird (PhD University of Queensland) is Deputy Principal at Ridley College, Melbourne, Australia. He is an Anglican priest and the author of over 30 books about the New Testament and Theology."

Are you perhaps a follower of his blog?  

 

[deva1]

I think holiness is very much linked with the fear of the Lord. If we walk in the spirit , we won't fulfill the lusts of the flesh. If the fear of the Lord was preached more I think it would help in this area. Not being perfect, not works, but loving God and being fearful of grieving Him . Knowing He sees everything we do and think . 

[RdJ]

4 hours ago, enoob57 said:

Paul's own witness of this:
Romans 7:18 (KJV)

[18] For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

[19] For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

[20] Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

[21] I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

[22] For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

[23] But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

[24] O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

[25] I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

This is why the edification from Paul here:
Galatians 5:16 (KJV)

[16] This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

[17] For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

 

 

But Romans 7 is not the normal christian experience would Torben Sondergaard say. He had to read Romans 6 over and over until it dawned on him that he really died with Christ and didn't have to sin anymore then he came in Romans 8, which is victory over sin. Romans 7 yes indeed we can't change ourselves, so we call out to God and then you come in Romans 8 or in John the stages baby, young men and then the fathers have overcome the wicked one.

For instance Corrie ten Boom could not forgive a former SS guard from the concentration camp where her sister died. He asked her to forgive himand she could not, but she could ask God for help and then she felt His love flow when she shook his hand.

 

[RdJ]

11 hours ago, Ausie 52 said:

I have noticed that there is a silence on this most vital subject. The subject of holiness is all through the Bible, especially in the New Testament.

Jesus said only the pure in heart will see God. The writer to the Hebrews said , without holiness no man shall see the Lord.

 I believe that the great need of the Church today is the holiness of its members. But, when was the last time you had a sermon on the subject? When was the last time you heard a testimony by someone who had a holiness experience?

Your thoughts?

Steve Hill preached on it and Torben Sondergaard preaches on it. David Wilkerson, Derek Prince preached on it. Last time I heard it was when I watched Torben on youtube I think.

[enoob57]

19 minutes ago, Renskedejonge said:

But Romans 7 is not the normal christian experience would Torben Sondergaard say. He had to read Romans 6 over and over until it dawned on him that he really died with Christ and didn't have to sin anymore then he came in Romans 8, which is victory over sin. Romans 7 yes indeed we can't change ourselves, so we call out to God and then you come in Romans 8 or in John the stages baby, young men and then the fathers have overcome the wicked one.

For instance Corrie ten Boom could not forgive a former SS guard from the concentration camp where her sister died. He asked her to forgive himand she could not, but she could ask God for help and then she felt His love flow when she shook his hand.

 

I believe it is ... those who think not just moved the goal line for themselves... 
Philippians 3:12 (KJV)

[12] Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

1 John 1:10 (KJV)

[10] If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.