Why there are no two Witnesses of Moses with Elijah and 144k Sealed Hebrew in modern Israel

[luigi]

1 minute ago, tatwo said:

Yes...yes as someone who has spent a considerable amount of time working through both the end of the age and more specifically the rule of the beast...I can agree with you here...nice work bro...thanks.

Have you "seen" the beast in action? Have you seen the witnesses? Just curious...

Tatwo...:) 

We have yet to see the beasts economic policies in full swing. We see from the OP, however, how consumerism has increased substantially throughout the world since 1980. 

In regards to when we will see the beasts policies come into play; we have to take into account scriptures describing preceding events. According to the Olivet discourse, the world will be experiencing the worst of economic times, where the faithful are being persecuted and killed throughout the world. I think this economic disastrous time represents the first 3.5 times, prior to when the beasts policies (for the final 3.5 times) are initiated throughout the world.

We are currently very close to the first 3.5 times. I say this because of news coming from many areas of the world. China is on the verge of economic collapse, with much of their society unemployed. It is also not much better in Germany, and Great Britain. You need to go to Youtube, however, to see what is going on abroad, as mainstream media appears to be keeping pretty much silent on these issues.

[other one]

It seems to me that the World Economic Forum (WEF) is very busy setting up the beast financial system

[luigi]

5 minutes ago, other one said:

It seems to me that the World Economic Forum (WEF) is very busy setting up the beast financial system

The WEF, and the worlds governments are very aware of the dire situations throughout the world, and so are being led to the first steps in initiating the beasts financial system.

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

45 minutes ago, tatwo said:

Why such an almost "fatalistic or perhaps better said dogmatic" perspective TFOC?

I understand that according to your admission "you" believe that you are not in what you define as "tribulation"...which is fine for you.

However at the same time there is an affliction upon the world that has never been seen before...and it grows and increases in strength day by day...it has gripped the entire world and is not stopping. I have followed it closely for nearly 20 years.

If you are "not currently in the tribulation" good for you friend...and it is either that or you simply cannot discern its source and effect.

As for those who bear the "mark" of the witnesses...they are here of course...once again...simply because "you" TFOC don't, can't or have not seen them does not mean they are not here...

I urge you to "soften" your approach to these things and gain some deeper understanding...and that would be for your own good...TFOC.

Tatwo...:)

The problem with your answer is that you are suggesting that because some people or even some countries are going through tribulation that means that the world is experiencing tribulation. Or at least that's how I understood your answer. I would say that that is incorrect of course. The tribulation mentioned in the Book of Revelation is not a tribulation of specific individuals or of specific countries. It is a tribulation of the entire planet all at once. It is also not a tribulation that anybody would have to explain and tell you that they are going through tribulation because every person on Earth will be affected by this tribulation when it occurs. There currently is no one world ruler as there will be in Revelation. The judgments listed in the seals trumpets and bowls also are not currently falling on the Earth which certainly suggests we are not yet in the tribulation. The two witnesses are not in Israel preaching and killing people and converting massive amounts of people around the world, so that certainly shows we are not in the tribulation. The 144,000 witnesses are not evangelizing the globe under special protection from God, so that shows we are not in the tribulation. And last but not least even though I could go on, the mark of the beast does not being forcibly administered to the world populace under threat of death. That shows we are not in the tribulation. So I would say it's very easy to decipher that we are not in the tribulation as absolutely none of the signs of the tribulation are currently going on right now. Yes there are wars and there are plagues and famines going on in the world, however these things have always gone on throughout all of human history. The tribulation all of these things will be on a global scale. I myself would know if we were in the tribulation because I would be going through tribulation. However I am part of the church which means I will not be part of the tribulation, so it's not really something I worry about.

[tatwo]

13 minutes ago, luigi said:

We have yet to see the beasts economic policies in full swing. We see from the OP, however, how consumerism has increased substantially throughout the world since 1980.

Sure indicating a gradual "tightening" of the economic noose...so to speak.

17 minutes ago, luigi said:

In regards to when we will see the beasts policies come into play; we have to take into account scriptures describing preceding events.

Important point!

17 minutes ago, luigi said:

According to the Olivet discourse, the world will be experiencing the worst of economic times, where the faithful are being persecuted and killed throughout the world. I think this economic disastrous time represents the first 3.5 times, prior to when the beasts policies (for the final 3.5 times) are initiated throughout the world.

Agreed...however Luigi...so often I see "Christians" (not you here) treat the scenario that you are laying out in the manner that one would flip a light switch on and off.

I just do not see it that way at all...and there's a good reason for that I might add. In order for the "world" to be "experiencing the worst of economic times"...there is a "run up"...a gradual "spin up" where all the pieces are being organized and systematically put in place.

It is my observation that this "world" is ever so deep in that process already. Much deeper than nominal "Christianity" even care to consider.

Additionally I might add...many nations are currently in a depth of economic disaster that they will never recover...as that nation.

Tatwo...:)

[tatwo]

30 minutes ago, luigi said:

We are currently very close to the first 3.5 times. I say this because of news coming from many areas of the world. China is on the verge of economic collapse, with much of their society unemployed. It is also not much better in Germany, and Great Britain. You need to go to Youtube, however, to see what is going on abroad, as mainstream media appears to be keeping pretty much silent on these issues.

Agreed indeed...and just a note...there are better sources than YouTube which has become so censored.

Perhaps we start a forum on this very subject and compare notes?

Tatwo...:)

[Shilohsfoal]

39 minutes ago, tatwo said:

Perfectly in other words there are no options here for you?

And of course here is "your perfect understanding" correct?

You have these two witnesses going forth "tormenting and killing anyone they choose" to whom then...are they bearing witness? The reason I ask is because I cannot see the Lord Yahshua Christ or any of the sons of God ever doing such a thing. 

Essentially that could be seen as undermining the Gospel of the Kingdom of God on earth...really. Additionally that type of action is uncharacteristic of the Lord Yahshua.

Perhaps we can "sharpen" your "perfect understanding"...or not?

Tatwo...:) 

Your right.

If those two witnesses are tormenting others ,and killing some then that would be undermining the gospel.

 

¹⁰ And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

 

⁵ And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

 

"fire proceedeth out of their mouth,"

"he must in this manner be killed."

Fire commands are oral orders issued by leaders to focus and distribute fires as required achieving decisive effects against the enemy. They allow leaders to rapidly and concisely articulate their firing instructions using a standard format (Refer to TC 3-20.31-4 for more information).

 

 

 

I know people who have power that fire proceeds from their mouths and kills their enemies.They are serving in the king of the norths armed forces.Many of them are evangelicals.They arrive in Jerusalem 3.5 years before the time of the end .

 

[tatwo]

1 hour ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

The problem with your answer is that you are suggesting that because some people or even some countries are going through tribulation that means that the world is experiencing tribulation. Or at least that's how I understood your answer. I would say that that is incorrect of course.

Well yes and no…”yes” that I see what you have suggested here people and countries going through tribulation. “No”…that is not “singularly” how I define tribulation. I do see this definition as pointing to an “underlying” cause.

1 hour ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

The tribulation mentioned in the Book of Revelation is not a tribulation of specific individuals or of specific countries. It is a tribulation of the entire planet all at once.

While this can be one way to define the tribulation as in Revelation or for that matter the words the Lord Yahshua spoke concerning the end of the age. Yes there is a culmination point I see that.

However…to think that this just happens in the fashion that you and so many others describe…which seems like “one day there is no tribulation and the next day the whole world is engulfed in tribulation”…this is not an accurate depiction TFOC…not at all and this is not how the scripture lays it out…as you may see.

Tatwo...:)

[tatwo]

1 hour ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

It is also not a tribulation that anybody would have to explain and tell you that they are going through tribulation because every person on Earth will be affected by this tribulation when it occurs.

Again…you are correct when it reaches that point which you describe and all will know something’s up? Additionally I noticed that you TFOC and most others always point to “tribulation” as a “temporal and physical” reality and it most certainly is…however that is not “all” it is.

1 hour ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

There currently is no one world ruler as there will be in Revelation. The judgments listed in the seals trumpets and bowls also are not currently falling on the Earth which certainly suggests we are not yet in the tribulation. The two witnesses are not in Israel preaching and killing people and converting massive amounts of people around the world, so that certainly shows we are not in the tribulation.

Perhaps…assuming that your deconstruction and discernment of the elements you have listed is correct…right?

1 hour ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

So I would say it's very easy to decipher that we are not in the tribulation as absolutely none of the signs of the tribulation are currently going on right now. Yes there are wars and there are plagues and famines going on in the world, however these things have always gone on throughout all of human history. The tribulation all of these things will be on a global scale.

Well there you go…as long as “you” do not “see” the “physical signs” with your “physical eyes”…those which you have determined are in fact the “official physical temporal” signs of tribulation…we are all fine. I am not trying to be facetious here…no…not at all.

I am simply posting my interpretation of what I believe you are telling me. That we may understand each other and proceed if that is in fact what we do.

Tatwo...:)

[tatwo]

1 hour ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

I myself would know if we were in the tribulation because I would be going through tribulation. However I am part of the church which means I will not be part of the tribulation, so it's not really something I worry about.

You have left me no choice but assume that you are giving me an accurate depiction of your belief in the matter…so I will do just that. In the course of updating my understanding of your position I can see that you have neglected the basis for tribulation at any level.

As I have said before…you seem to base your discernment upon the “temporal realm” of life on earth…just like most of “Christianity.” I understand that…perhaps at one time I was in that place myself…however I am not there any longer…I have grown in my understanding of things in the invisible realms…light and darkness.

Just look at your own description of your own view TFOC everything you base your discernment upon is observable physically to the human eye. If that is where you feel the complete understanding for all matters of tribulation comes from…so be it.

However allow me to remind you that there are invisible forces at work in the “world” of which you do not mention. Indeed...these are invisible elements and factors that you either just do not include in your dissertation or perhaps do not see. These are the absolute basis for tribulation in creation and on this earth…and where any and all tribulation flows forth from.

Tatwo...:)