JoeCanada Posted February 18 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 76 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,251 Content Per Day: 0.55 Reputation: 673 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/26/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted February 18 Revelation 22:2 states, “…through the middle of the street of the city; also, on either side of the river, the tree of life with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. THE LEAVES OF THE TREE ARE FOR THE HEALING OF THE NATIONS." Throughout Church history, many have struggled wondering how to make sense of the problem that we are told that the “leaves of the Tree of Life” would be for the healing of the nations when, according to the traditional view, the New Jerusalem does not come down out of heaven until AFTER the Millennial Kingdom (i.e., only later, in the so-called “Eternal State”, where there is no death or sickness) The problem is that, in the Eternal State, there would be no need for “healing of the nations” since only “immortals” would enter into the Eternal State. However, the leaves of the Tree of Life “for the healing of the nations” makes perfect sense in this passage if, in fact, the New Jerusalem (which will contain the Tree of Life) is actually present throughout the Millennial Kingdom, in which case, the leaves from the Tree of Life could be transported outside of the New Jerusalem and given to “mortals” who will be alive in the “nations” during the Millennium and could provide for actual “physical healing” of any infirmities mortals might have during the 1000 years. Thoughts?” ................. Terry Zeyen...... eschatos ministries........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilohsfoal Posted February 18 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 153 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5,881 Content Per Day: 2.47 Reputation: 330 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/22/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted February 18 2 hours ago, JoeCanada said: Revelation 22:2 states, “…through the middle of the street of the city; also, on either side of the river, the tree of life with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. THE LEAVES OF THE TREE ARE FOR THE HEALING OF THE NATIONS." Throughout Church history, many have struggled wondering how to make sense of the problem that we are told that the “leaves of the Tree of Life” would be for the healing of the nations when, according to the traditional view, the New Jerusalem does not come down out of heaven until AFTER the Millennial Kingdom (i.e., only later, in the so-called “Eternal State”, where there is no death or sickness) The problem is that, in the Eternal State, there would be no need for “healing of the nations” since only “immortals” would enter into the Eternal State. However, the leaves of the Tree of Life “for the healing of the nations” makes perfect sense in this passage if, in fact, the New Jerusalem (which will contain the Tree of Life) is actually present throughout the Millennial Kingdom, in which case, the leaves from the Tree of Life could be transported outside of the New Jerusalem and given to “mortals” who will be alive in the “nations” during the Millennium and could provide for actual “physical healing” of any infirmities mortals might have during the 1000 years. Thoughts?” ................. Terry Zeyen...... eschatos ministries........... Ezekiel shows the trees by the river upon earth and the river running down into the dead sea and healing the dead sea so that there are fish in it. Anyways the leaves are mentioned there too and it corresponds with revelation taking place after Gog invades Israel after the millinium. Ezekiel 47 12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Hartono Posted February 18 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 771 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,938 Content Per Day: 3.06 Reputation: 1,979 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted February 18 The fruit may have disease healing property and ever young benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted February 20 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 267 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,207 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,497 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted February 20 On 2/18/2024 at 12:30 PM, JoeCanada said: Revelation 22:2 states, “…through the middle of the street of the city; also, on either side of the river, the tree of life with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. THE LEAVES OF THE TREE ARE FOR THE HEALING OF THE NATIONS." `healing,` is the HEALTH of the nations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdHoc Posted February 20 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,038 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 1,454 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/29/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted February 20 On 2/18/2024 at 2:30 AM, JoeCanada said: Revelation 22:2 states, “…through the middle of the street of the city; also, on either side of the river, the tree of life with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. THE LEAVES OF THE TREE ARE FOR THE HEALING OF THE NATIONS." Throughout Church history, many have struggled wondering how to make sense of the problem that we are told that the “leaves of the Tree of Life” would be for the healing of the nations when, according to the traditional view, the New Jerusalem does not come down out of heaven until AFTER the Millennial Kingdom (i.e., only later, in the so-called “Eternal State”, where there is no death or sickness) The problem is that, in the Eternal State, there would be no need for “healing of the nations” since only “immortals” would enter into the Eternal State. However, the leaves of the Tree of Life “for the healing of the nations” makes perfect sense in this passage if, in fact, the New Jerusalem (which will contain the Tree of Life) is actually present throughout the Millennial Kingdom, in which case, the leaves from the Tree of Life could be transported outside of the New Jerusalem and given to “mortals” who will be alive in the “nations” during the Millennium and could provide for actual “physical healing” of any infirmities mortals might have during the 1000 years. Thoughts?” ................. Terry Zeyen...... eschatos ministries........... First, let define the leaves. A garment in parable is one's works (Rev.19:7-8). Jesus, by His works, created a righteousness that God accepts. They also achieved things like His death was a propitiation for sins. The Tree of Life is Jesus Christ and His Kingdom of LIFE and the leaves are His works that can be applied externally. The Nations refused, or did not hear the gospel, so they do not have eternal life intrinsically. After resurrection a Christian is sustained by his human spirit, but which possesses eternal life (Jn.3:6). The Nations, including the Nation of Israel are also resurrected, and the Adamic nature is gone. But they do not possess eternal life. They must be sustained by something. Eternal Life is the nature of God. Believers receive it INTERNALLY. Everlasting life is a life that never ends because it is sustained. The resurrected receive it EXTERNALLY. We have a hint of this in in Hebrews 6. The normal Christian life in this age is that "signs follow". That is, miracles are the exception rather than the rule. Hebrews 6:3-5, among other things, gives a hint of the rate of miracles in this age as opposed to the next age. 3 And this will we do, if God permit. 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come ..., The author is in the middle of a warning, which would take too much time to explain, but the meaning is clear. We will "TASTE" of "powers of the age to come". But in the next age we will not "taste". We will have a full diet of them. That is, in the Millennial Kingdom, miracles in the name of Jesus will be the order of the day. These, from the blind seeing to resurrection, are all works of Jesus. We have no intrinsic power ourselves. All are works by Jesus. Thus, the "Leaves ... will sustain, heal and supply the Nations." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeCanada Posted February 23 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 76 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,251 Content Per Day: 0.55 Reputation: 673 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/26/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 23 On 2/20/2024 at 1:36 PM, AdHoc said: First, let define the leaves. Revelation 22:2 states, “…through the middle of the street of the city; also, on either side of the river, the tree of life with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. THE LEAVES OF THE TREE ARE FOR THE HEALING OF THE NATIONS." Hi AdHoc. Is it truly fair to pick one word out of an entire passage and assign a symbolic meaning to that one word? In all likely hood it would change the meaning of the message the author is trying to convey in the passage. If a person says that "leaves" are symbolic, and only the leaves, then what about: " the street "...... what does this represent? " City "........ " " river "..... " " tree of life "....... " " twelve kinds of fruit ".... " Revelation 22:2 states, “…through the middle of the street of the city; also, on either side of the river, the tree of life with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month" .................. I think that we can take that to be literal. Rev 21 shows us the City of God, and describes it in great detail, and since there are no chapter breaks, Rev 22 just carries on and describes was John saw through the middle of the street. I think that a person reading this could easily conclude that the city of God is an actual city, that there is a river that runs through the city, and that there are actual fruit trees on either side of the river...... and that the fruit of the Tree of Life is actual fruit...... BUT...... then the LEAVES of the tree aren't really LEAVES but are something else? I have to say that it's a stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeCanada Posted February 23 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 76 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,251 Content Per Day: 0.55 Reputation: 673 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/26/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 23 On 2/17/2024 at 7:57 PM, Shilohsfoal said: On 2/17/2024 at 7:57 PM, Shilohsfoal said: Anyways the leaves are mentioned there too and it corresponds with revelation taking place after Gog invades Israel after the millinium. Hi Shilohsfoal, "revelation taking place after Gog invades Israel after the millinium." The floor is all yours..... Do tell....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilohsfoal Posted February 23 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 153 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5,881 Content Per Day: 2.47 Reputation: 330 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/22/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted February 23 1 hour ago, JoeCanada said: Hi Shilohsfoal, "revelation taking place after Gog invades Israel after the millinium." The floor is all yours..... Do tell....... It corresponds with revelation . It takes place after Gog invades Israel after the millinium. 1-The first resurection takes place.Revelation 20:4-6 and Ezekiel 37 2-Gog invades Israel and is destroyed.Revelation 20:8-9 and Ezekiel 38-39. 3- New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven , the tabernacle of God is with men.Revelation 21:2-3 and Ezekiel 40-48 from which the river flows.Ezekiel 47:2-5 and revelation 22:1-2 Revelation 20 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. 7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. 11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. 21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdHoc Posted February 23 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,038 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 1,454 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/29/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted February 23 5 hours ago, JoeCanada said: Revelation 22:2 states, “…through the middle of the street of the city; also, on either side of the river, the tree of life with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. THE LEAVES OF THE TREE ARE FOR THE HEALING OF THE NATIONS." Hi AdHoc. Is it truly fair to pick one word out of an entire passage and assign a symbolic meaning to that one word? In all likely hood it would change the meaning of the message the author is trying to convey in the passage. If a person says that "leaves" are symbolic, and only the leaves, then what about: " the street "...... what does this represent? " City "........ " " river "..... " " tree of life "....... " " twelve kinds of fruit ".... " Revelation 22:2 states, “…through the middle of the street of the city; also, on either side of the river, the tree of life with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month" .................. I think that we can take that to be literal. Rev 21 shows us the City of God, and describes it in great detail, and since there are no chapter breaks, Rev 22 just carries on and describes was John saw through the middle of the street. I think that a person reading this could easily conclude that the city of God is an actual city, that there is a river that runs through the city, and that there are actual fruit trees on either side of the river...... and that the fruit of the Tree of Life is actual fruit...... BUT...... then the LEAVES of the tree aren't really LEAVES but are something else? I have to say that it's a stretch. Hello Joe, and thanks for your reply. You have a very strong argument and I'm aware that a large contingent of students agree with you. I too try always to take the Bible literally. My rules, and those of many serious students, are that we are forced to consider the allegorical approach when (i) it says that it is so - like Hagar and Sarah in Galatians, (ii) when it is obvious that the literal will not fit, and (iii) when the literal leads to absurdity. I do believe I can make a compelling case for New Jerusalem being a sign. Right off; 1. Revelation 1:1 says that the things in the Book are revealed by "signs" 2. Galatians 4:26 says Heavenly Jerusalem is a MOTHER. Revelation 21 has her severally as a City, a Wife, a Tabernacle and a Cube 3. The Cube is 12,000 furlongs, or 1,500 miles. Human blood boils (ebullism) at 63,000 ft or barely 12 miles That might not be enough for you, so let me show what else. First, your quoted verse. Romans 1:18-20 says that we can know the things of God through nature. That does not mean that God is in nature, but things like the Vine, the sun (of righteousness) and roaring wind describe divine events. If you examine Revelation 22:2 a tree cannot, at the same time, be in the middle of a street and on both sides of a river. Next, In Eden were certain materials. We are not told then why, but 1st Corinthians 3 makes it clear that these materials are for building God's House. The bdellium becomes redundant because sin came in, and is replaced by silver. But when resurrection of all mankind is accomplished and the Adamic nature is dissolved, Silver, the price of the woman to be redeemed, is replaced by Pearls. Now, while the Body of Christ is literal and physical (2nd Cor.5:17), we being His members, God's House is a "spiritual House" (1st Pet.2:4-5). Again, an absurdity is created if you take the materials as literal. You cannot build something of spirit substance with literal materials, especially if God has commanded us to shun the riches of this life. Finally, and probably most important, God had a plan in Genesis. Him, being ALL-mighty, He cannot have His councils thwarted. He laid forth FOUR things for man to do; 1. Be in His image and likeness 2. Be a companion up to the standard of Jesus 3. Subdue first and then rule the earth and it environs 4. Bring the Garden of fellowship to order New Jerusalem is a magnificent, all-explaining consummation of this fourfold plan 1. Be in His image and likeness - It has the glory of God 2. Be a companion up to the standard of Jesus - It is the Wife of Christ (bone of His bone etc....) 3. Subdue first and then rule the earth and it environs - It rules with all problems subdued (22:5) 4. Bring the Garden of fellowship to order - It has a high wall and nothing defiling comes in Gold is the nature of God, Pearls - the righteousness ascribed the fulfilling of the Law (Israel), Precious Stones the completed transformation of men into the image of Christ (Rom.8:28-29). 12 - the number of God's People, a Cube, the shape of the Holy of Holies, The Tree of Life - Jesus, the most precious stone - Jesus, the River of Life - Jesus, the Light of the world - Jesus, the 12-fold supply of the Tree of Life - Jesus, the Husband - Jesus, the King - Jesus ... and more. I got the picture from tourofheaven.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdHoc Posted February 23 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,038 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 1,454 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/29/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted February 23 On 2/18/2024 at 2:30 AM, JoeCanada said: The problem is that, in the Eternal State, there would be no need for “healing of the nations” since only “immortals” would enter into the Eternal State. However, the leaves of the Tree of Life “for the healing of the nations” makes perfect sense in this passage if, in fact, the New Jerusalem (which will contain the Tree of Life) is actually present throughout the Millennial Kingdom, in which case, the leaves from the Tree of Life could be transported outside of the New Jerusalem and given to “mortals” who will be alive in the “nations” during the Millennium and could provide for actual “physical healing” of any infirmities mortals might have during the 1000 years. Thoughts?” Your thoughts are well ordered. What I think is that we have been erroneously taught that the Millennium will be a Utopia. But 1st Corinthians 15:23-26 indicates that this is the time that our Lord rules AND subdues God's enemies. Since only resurrected men "put on immortality", the Nations will still be in the flesh. Though they might fawn at Christ politically, they will still be implacable enemies. The rule of the rod of iron will no doubt exact its death toll until lessons are learned, and Noah's Covenant is still in effect, which will no doubt end badly for some. Added to this, the torment of those in the Lake of Fire (the Beast, etc.) will go up as smoke and even among restored Israel, some will be in disgrace (Dan.12:2). After a thousand years of unbending justice, those born to the Nations, but which never knew Satan's rule, will be ripe for a rebellion and gladly follow Magog. The slaughter at this battle will probably surpass Armageddon. But there is another consideration. At the Bema many Christians will not make it into the Kingdom. It is the time of their chastisement (Matt.7, 22 & 25, 1 Cor.6:9-10, Gal.5:21, Eph.5:5). At least until they have bought the required oil, there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. It is obvious that the Millennium will not be utopia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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