God's historic national rods of His wrath, discipline and purification of Israel and what that may portend.

[RdJ]

13 hours ago, Jonathan Dane said:

Which nation nearly conquered the entire world and killed six million Jews during WW2? 
Germany—arguably the most powerful nation on Earth at that time. (Certainly in Europe.)

Which nations has God consistently used to discipline and purify Israel since its inception? 
The most powerful nations on Earth.

Which nation will give rise to the Antichrist, who will be God's instrument of wrath and discipline against Israel in the coming years?
The most powerful nation on Earth.

Which nation is the most powerful on Earth?

???

God's instrument of wrath against Israel?

I think the ac will come from Europe, because that guy from France is in the Bilderberg club, in London was a meeting in 2005 with kings etc. where they planned covid. But Israel will get a safe place 3,5 years in the desert and the wrath is for the ones in the nations who refuse to repent.

And the Lord answered the angel who talked to me, with good and comforting words. So the angel who spoke with me said to me, “Proclaim, saying, ‘Thus says the Lord of hosts: “I am zealous for Jerusalem And for Zion with great zeal. I am exceedingly angry with the nations at ease; For I was a little angry, And they helped—but with evil intent.”
Zechariah 1:13‭-‬15 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/zec.1.13-15.NKJV

 

 

 

[Jonathan Dane]

14 minutes ago, RdJ said:

I think the ac will come from Europe, because that guy from France is in the Bilderberg club, in London was a meeting in 2005 with kings etc. where they planned covid. 

 

 

 

 

I appreiate that. Nonetheless, I take my cues from God's Word, not because so-and-so is part of some cabal of sinister men who supposedly drummed up a pandemic.

"Do not call conspiracy all that this people calls conspiracy, and do not fear what they fear, nor be in dread." (Isaiah 8:12)

Edited April 2 by Jonathan Dane

[RdJ]

45 minutes ago, Jonathan Dane said:

I appreiate that. Nonetheless, I take my cues from God's Word, not because so-and-so is part of some cabal of sinister men who supposedly drummed up a pandemic.

"Do not call conspiracy all that this people calls conspiracy, and do not fear what they fear, nor be in dread." (Isaiah 8:12)

Yes of course. I don't know all these texts and there are different theories with texts. Some said he was from Islam. Hal Lindsey said revived Roman empire, which is Europe, because of Daniel 9

And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary

That in combination with what they said in 2005 makes that it wouldn't surprise me if he was from Europe, but I may be wrong.

[Charlie744]

14 hours ago, Jonathan Dane said:

In 1500 B.C., which empire did God use to refine Israel? 
Egypt—the most powerful kingdom on Earth.

In 722 B.C., which empire took the 10 Northern Tribes of Israel captive? 
Assyria—the most powerful kingdom on Earth.

In 586 B.C., which empire took the Southern Kingdom of Judah into captivity? 
Babylon—the most powerful kingdom on Earth.

In 539 B.C., which empire began its rule over the Jewish exiles? 
Media-Persia—the most powerful kingdom on Earth.

In 187 B.C., which empire ruled during the Macobean Revolt? 
Greece—the most powerful kingdom on Earth.

In 70 A.D., which empire destroyed Jerusalem?
Rome—the most powerful kingdom on Earth.

Which nation nearly conquered the entire world and killed six million Jews during WW2? 
Germany—arguably the most powerful nation on Earth at that time. (Certainly in Europe.)

Which nations has God consistently used to discipline and purify Israel since its inception? 
The most powerful nations on Earth.

Which nation will give rise to the Antichrist, who will be God's instrument of wrath and discipline against Israel in the coming years?
The most powerful nation on Earth.

Which nation is the most powerful on Earth?

I am not understanding any of this! Rather than offer my understanding, which is so contrary to “today’s accepted opinions/thoughts, let me ask a few questions that maybe able to open your thoughts to me :

1) In Daniel, God gave us 12 prophetic chapters that would take us from 606 BC to the end of time (His second coming). Within these verses He brings forth 4 and only 4 kingdoms (theses are obviously not all or even most of the same important kingdoms that will be seen on the earth) but they DO reflect the 4 kingdoms God has determined we need to consider UNTIL His second coming. These are the ONLY kingdoms HE BROUGHT OUT OF THE EARTH OR THE SEA (chapter 7). Meaning, why are we “adding to” His Word by bringing in the US, Turkey, China,  or ANY other nation or power? 
 

Isn’t God using these 4 and only 4 kingdoms to present His prophecies? They are not the story but serve as , borders, time elements and guide rails that allow us to interpret these prophecies. 
 

2) Why the continued hate against Israel ..  or  need to punish them AGAIN at the end times? Did God  punish them in the worse possible way for the last 2000 years because they rejected and crucified their Messiah? He made them completely “desolate” from His presence. This is referred to as the “Abomination (cross) that causes complete desolation  longere will they (Jews) have access to their God for 2000 years. It will end when the “time of the Gentiles is finished.”Then, God will divinely remove the blindness from their eyes (Damascus like experience), and they will be back with their God. So, why the continued need to punish them at the time of the end?

3) There is no longer Jew nor Greek… God does not see us based on OUR man made borders or boundaries or what politics or religions we choose. Isn’t the battle that has begun after the Cross a  battle with us having ONLY 2 choices - whether we accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior (Jew or Gentile), or those that reject Him?

4) I don’t understand why everyone is watching / waiting / expecting the coming of a LITERAL “anti-Christ” figure at the end times. The very few verses in the NT speak ONLY of  “spirit of an anti-Christ,” NOT a LITERAL PERSON. And this brings in the final question, did not God specifically identify the “evil one”, the “little horn” who would do ALL THE WORK THINGS AGAINST HIS people, His church, His saints of the Most High and speak pompous things against God Himself (chapters  7 and 8). Did not God tell us exactly when he will come on to the scene (4th kingdom of Rome)?  Did God reveal the 4th kingdom of Rome (pagan Rome) would be slain and its body destroyed (chapter 7), meaning this little horn HAD TO ARRIVE BEFORE THE DEMISE OF PAGAN ROME IN 467 AD?

Yes, a very different form of “Rome” would continue until the end of time which also reinforces God has brought forward ONLY 4 kingdoms… He established His earthly kingdom at the cross and this began His Church. But His  was appropriated by this same little horn who would also gain power  over the other kingdoms in the image and also in secular matters. If we stay inside these 4 kingdoms that God brought forward from the earth or the sea, and honor His borders and boundaries that He established in 2, will we find a need to place OUR PUZZLE PIECES (US, Turkey, EU, China or a mythical anti-Christ figure) onto His prophetic puzzle picture? 
 

 

 

[RdJ]

 

From Gotquestions:

According to various interpretations of the books of Daniel and Revelation, the Revived Roman Empire is either a generic world political system or a specific nation under a specific ruler.

https://www.scribd.com/document/57376105/I-Saw-the-Tribulation-Ken-Peters-Prophecy

He spoke of the "new times" upon us as human beings, new directives for

global peace and the need to give up current citizenship for world citizenship

".•This man constantly spoke of "

World Order

" and the benefits of all men dwelling together in peace.

 

This was very strange. There were

almost no sovereign individual

nations.

 

The world was now divided into

global regions

 — no longer as continents and countries.

 

REV 17:13 

These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

 

 

 

Edited April 2 by RdJ

[Michael37]

44 minutes ago, RdJ said:

According to various interpretations of the books of Daniel and Revelation, the Revived Roman Empire is either a generic world political system or a specific nation under a specific ruler.

Rome is the 4th beast of Daniel and the 6th power head/mountain-kingdom of Revelation. The German Second and Third Reichs are so called due to the primacy of the Roman Empire which they sought to revive. Imperial Rome as it was with its Caesar worship, expansionist ideology, and syncretism of culture and religion, is a demonic type and template for similar empires, leading ultimately to one final global empire. (See Revelation 17 and diagram below))

The fourth beast in Daniel 7 is described as indescribable because it was unlike any other animal that Daniel had seen before. It was dreadful and terrifying and had large iron teeth that crushed and devoured its victims ¹. The beast was also extremely strong and had ten horns ²¹. The horns symbolized the power and fearsomeness of the beast ². The fourth beast is believed to represent the Roman Empire, which emerged as the dominant force in the world and ultimately led to the crucifixion of Jesus Christ ³. 

[Jonathan Dane]

39 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

I am not understanding any of this! Rather than offer my understanding, which is so contrary to “today’s accepted opinions/thoughts, let me ask a few questions that maybe able to open your thoughts to me :

JD: Perhaps your novel understanding of eschatology "so contrary to today's accepted opinions/thoughts" is the issue.
Before you accuse me of hypocrisy, my theological interpretation of Daniel aligns squarely with current, present, and past biblical scholarship. Where I split is on a very nuanced opinion of the AC's identity.

1) In Daniel, God gave us 12 prophetic chapters that would take us from 606 BC to the end of time (His second coming). Within these verses He brings forth 4 and only 4 kingdoms (theses are obviously not all or even most of the same important kingdoms that will be seen on the earth) but they DO reflect the 4 kingdoms God has determined we need to consider UNTIL His second coming. These are the ONLY kingdoms HE BROUGHT OUT OF THE EARTH OR THE SEA (chapter 7). Meaning, why are we “adding to” His Word by bringing in the US, Turkey, China,  or ANY other nation or power? 

JD) I and nearly every other futurist scholar see the 4th Kingdom in two manifestations: Rome past and a future end-time kingdom. When compared to Daniel 11 and 12, there is clearly an end-of-the-Age parallel. I believe your interpretations are a form of preterism, which I, along with most other premillennialists, reject.

Your "interpretation" does not contitute "the Word." I am adding to nothing.

Isn’t God using these 4 and only 4 kingdoms to present His prophecies? They are not the story but serve as , borders, time elements and guide rails that allow us to interpret these prophecies. 

2) Why the continued hate against Israel ..  or  need to punish them AGAIN at the end times? Did God  punish them in the worse possible way for the last 2000 years because they rejected and crucified their Messiah? He made them completely “desolate” from His presence. This is referred to as the “Abomination (cross) that causes complete desolation  longere will they (Jews) have access to their God for 2000 years. It will end when the “time of the Gentiles is finished.”Then, God will divinely remove the blindness from their eyes (Damascus like experience), and they will be back with their God. So, why the continued need to punish them at the time of the end?

JD) "Why the continued hate against Israel?" That is incendiary language I reject. Why the need to "punish" them again? Well, you must take that up with God and His "Jewish" prophets who prophesied these things. (That's like asking, "Why does God eternally punish in Hell?") God makes clear that He will purify them with fire to burn away the dross to bless the gold and silver (His remaining elect Jews) in His Millennial Kingdom.

19Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: Because you have all become dross, therefore, behold, I will gather you into the midst of Jerusalem. 20As one gathers silver and bronze and iron and lead and tin into a furnace, to blow the fire on it in order to melt it, so I will gather you in my anger and in my wrath, and I will put you in and melt you. 21I will gather you and blow on you with the fire of my wrath, and you shall be melted in the midst of it. 22As silver is melted in a furnace, so you shall be melted in the midst of it, and you shall know that I am the LORD; I have poured out my wrath upon you.”
(Ezekiel 22:18)

3) There is no longer Jew nor Greek… God does not see us based on OUR man made borders or boundaries or what politics or religions we choose. Isn’t the battle that has begun after the Cross a  battle with us having ONLY 2 choices - whether we accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior (Jew or Gentile), or those that reject Him?

JD) "There is no longer Jew or Greek..." comes from Galatians 3:28, which also states that there is no longer "male or female." So, when someone asks you your personal pronoun, do you respond with "neither?" The reason I suspect you are confused about eschatology is the very reason I suspect you are confused about Galatians 3, the context of which has to do with how a person is saved. (The word saved/salvation is mentioned 14 times in the chapter.) It no more nullifies the distinctions between Jews and Gentiles than it does males and females. We must always study the context, whether that be a paragraph, chapter, or, in some cases, an entire book (as in Daniel). 

4) I don’t understand why everyone is watching / waiting / expecting the coming of a LITERAL “anti-Christ” figure at the end times. The very few verses in the NT speak ONLY of  “spirit of an anti-Christ,” NOT a LITERAL PERSON. And this brings in the final question, did not God specifically identify the “evil one”, the “little horn” who would do ALL THE WORK THINGS AGAINST HIS people, His church, His saints of the Most High and speak pompous things against God Himself (chapters  7 and 8). Did not God tell us exactly when he will come on to the scene (4th kingdom of Rome)?  Did God reveal the 4th kingdom of Rome (pagan Rome) would be slain and its body destroyed (chapter 7), meaning this little horn HAD TO ARRIVE BEFORE THE DEMISE OF PAGAN ROME IN 467 AD?

JD) "The very few verses in the NT speak ONLY of 'spirit of an anti-Christ,' NOT a LITERAL PERSON."
Not true. 1 John 4 calls it "the spirit of the antichrist" that "is coming."  It's not a "spirit of a spirit." It is a "spirit (or type) of the personage that is coming."

Yes, a very different form of “Rome” would continue until the end of time which also reinforces God has brought forward ONLY 4 kingdoms… He established His earthly kingdom at the cross and this began His Church. But His  was appropriated by this same little horn who would also gain power  over the other kingdoms in the image and also in secular matters. If we stay inside these 4 kingdoms that God brought forward from the earth or the sea, and honor His borders and boundaries that He established in 2, will we find a need to place OUR PUZZLE PIECES (US, Turkey, EU, China or a mythical anti-Christ figure) onto His prophetic puzzle picture? 
 

 

 

I am unsure how to copy and paste boxed sectioned quotes into this window as I have seen others do. Perhaps you could instruct me?

For now, I will respond into your message above using bold text.

[Jonathan Dane]

42 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

Rome is the 4th beast of Daniel and the 6th power head/mountain-kingdom of Revelation. The German Second and Third Reichs are so called due to the primacy of the Roman Empire which they sought to revive. Imperial Rome as it was with its Caesar worship, expansionist ideology, and syncretism of culture and religion, is a demonic type and template for similar empires, leading ultimately to one final global empire. (See Revelation 17 and diagram below))

The fourth beast in Daniel 7 is described as indescribable because it was unlike any other animal that Daniel had seen before. It was dreadful and terrifying and had large iron teeth that crushed and devoured its victims ¹. The beast was also extremely strong and had ten horns ²¹. The horns symbolized the power and fearsomeness of the beast ². The fourth beast is believed to represent the Roman Empire, which emerged as the dominant force in the world and ultimately led to the crucifixion of Jesus Christ ³. 

Interesting you critique me for my double application of Rome. And I look at your chart, and what do I see?—a double manifestation of Rome (7 and 8). 

Meanwhile, we have the self-proclaimed messiah himself posting the day before Easter Sunday: THE CRUCIFIXION OF DONALD TRUMP

 

Edited April 3 by Jonathan Dane

[Charlie744]

24 minutes ago, Jonathan Dane said:

I am unsure how to copy and paste boxed sectioned quotes into this window as I have seen others do. Perhaps you could instruct me?

For now, I will respond into your message above using bold text.

What I do, and there may be a better way, but I go to the end of the text I want to comment on and click the “return” button (sometimes twice).

I hope Michael37 reads this his and can offer the proper way!

[Jonathan Dane]

59 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

Rome is the 4th beast of Daniel and the 6th power head/mountain-kingdom of Revelation. The German Second and Third Reichs are so called due to the primacy of the Roman Empire which they sought to revive. Imperial Rome as it was with its Caesar worship, expansionist ideology, and syncretism of culture and religion, is a demonic type and template for similar empires, leading ultimately to one final global empire. (See Revelation 17 and diagram below))

The fourth beast in Daniel 7 is described as indescribable because it was unlike any other animal that Daniel had seen before. It was dreadful and terrifying and had large iron teeth that crushed and devoured its victims ¹. The beast was also extremely strong and had ten horns ²¹. The horns symbolized the power and fearsomeness of the beast ². The fourth beast is believed to represent the Roman Empire, which emerged as the dominant force in the world and ultimately led to the crucifixion of Jesus Christ ³. 

Sorry Michael, I confused your comment with Charlie's. My bad. I would delete my response, but I am not sure how.