" HE " ..............

[SACREDWARRIOR]

WHEN DID/DO THE END TIMES , AS SPOKEN IN THE BIBLE BEGAN/BEGAN?

popular belief #1, is an end time period of 7 years where both satan & Jesus duke it out for control of mankind. satans champion known as the anti-christ....

It May surprise you to know that a 7 year period of this nature CAN NOT BE FOUND WITHIN THE PAGES OF THE BIBLE!!!!!

The Prophet Daniel, speaks of a period of 70 weeks of years.....hence....7 year divisions per se. it is however not given emphatically as to how these weeks of years are to be split up......we know FROM SCRIPTURE When the 69th week began/concluded.....but again this is A WHOLE not a perfect mathematical divide.

the rest of the puzzle, wrests on how you interpret the "HE" IN DANIEL 9:27

[Dan 9:27 ]

27 "And he will confirm a covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week "HE" WILL PUT A STOP TO SACRIFICE AND GRAIN OFFERINGS; and on the wing of abominations [will come] the one who makes desolate, until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, gushes forth on the one who makes desolate."

after years of study and comparing scripture with scripture and following every passage...I CLEARLY SEE THE "HE" AS JESUS not the anti-christ which is a popular view......

you might say, "WHEN DID JESUS MAKE THE SACRIFICE & GRAIN OFFERINGS DESOLATE?"

[Matthew 27:51 NASB20] 51 And behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth shook and the rocks were split.

[Mark 15:38 NASB20] 38 And the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom.

[Luke 23:45 NASB20] 45 because the sun stopped shining; and the veil of the temple was torn in two.

APPLYING , the former to the latter, jesus himself put a stop to the sacrifice and offerings.....NOT A FUTURE ANTI CHRIST!!!

So using this principle, it can be understood why the new testament speaks ONLY OF A 3.5 YEAR PERIOD ALLOTTED TO SATAN AND HIS CHAMPION to have their attempt, Peter says,

[1Pe 4:12, 17]

12 Beloved, do not think it strange concerning the fiery trial WHICH IS TO TRY "YOU", as though some strange thing happened to you; ... 17 For the time [has come] for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if [it begins] with us first, what will [be] the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?

or you may prefer the biblical view of "SEPARATING THE WHEAT & TARES, I.E SHEEP AND GOAT JUDGEMENT"

THE BATTLE RAGES TIL THE LION ROARS

[luigi]

6 hours ago, SACREDWARRIOR said:

WHEN DID/DO THE END TIMES , AS SPOKEN IN THE BIBLE BEGAN/BEGAN?

popular belief #1, is an end time period of 7 years where both satan & Jesus duke it out for control of mankind. satans champion known as the anti-christ....

It May surprise you to know that a 7 year period of this nature CAN NOT BE FOUND WITHIN THE PAGES OF THE BIBLE!!!!!

The Prophet Daniel, speaks of a period of 70 weeks of years.....hence....7 year divisions per se. it is however not given emphatically as to how these weeks of years are to be split up......we know FROM SCRIPTURE When the 69th week began/concluded.....but again this is A WHOLE not a perfect mathematical divide.

the rest of the puzzle, wrests on how you interpret the "HE" IN DANIEL 9:27

[Dan 9:27 ]

27 "And he will confirm a covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week "HE" WILL PUT A STOP TO SACRIFICE AND GRAIN OFFERINGS; and on the wing of abominations [will come] the one who makes desolate, until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, gushes forth on the one who makes desolate."

 

The abomination who brings about desolations in Daniel 9:27, is the same little horn in Daniel 7 & 8 & 11, who brings about desolations. This individual (the abomination/transgression of desolation), the Lord also speaks of in the Olivet discourse, that when he appears in Jerusalem, the saints throughout the world will have already been experiencing great tribulation, even being put to death.

If you then realize that the abomination of desolation, who is the little horn, is associated with the beast who will be allowed to reign for forty two months (3.5 times), (in both Daniel 7 and Revelation 13);---the time then preceding these final forty two months in which the saints are experiencing great tribulation and death, would have to represent an additional period of time prior to the final forty two months.

Daniel 8:13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

[Diaste]

23 hours ago, SACREDWARRIOR said:

after years of study and comparing scripture with scripture and following every passage...I CLEARLY SEE THE "HE" AS JESUS not the anti-christ which is a popular view......

You forgot to mention the Holy Spirit guided you to this conclusion.

Dan 9:26

Then after the sixty-two weeksh the Messiah will be cut off and will have nothing.

Dan 9:27

Then the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood, and until the end there will be war; desolations have been decreed. 27And he will confirm a covenant with many for one week,i but in the middle of the week he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of the temple will come the abomination that causes desolation,j until the decreed destruction is poured out upon him.k”

9:27 begins with, 

Then the people of the prince who is to come...

So after the Messiah is cut off, THEN, there is a 'prince who is to come'. This isn't the Messiah.

The 'prince who is to come' is the direct antecedent of 'he' here, "he will confirm a covenant" and here, "he will put an end to sacrifice and offering". 

Did Jesus put and end to sacrifice and oblation? No.

The Jews were still sacrificing in the Temple the day it was destroyed in 70 AD; the Temple being destroyed by the legion X Fretensis, made up of Syrian and other Arab conscripts, contrary to the orders of General Titus. 

Edited April 5 by Diaste

[R. Hartono]

On 4/4/2024 at 4:57 PM, SACREDWARRIOR said:

WHEN DID/DO THE END TIMES , AS SPOKEN IN THE BIBLE BEGAN/BEGAN?

popular belief #1, is an end time period of 7 years where both satan & Jesus duke it out for control of mankind. satans champion known as the anti-christ....

It May surprise you to know that a 7 year period of this nature CAN NOT BE FOUND WITHIN THE PAGES OF THE BIBLE!!!!!

The Prophet Daniel, speaks of a period of 70 weeks of years.....hence....7 year divisions per se. it is however not given emphatically as to how these weeks of years are to be split up......we know FROM SCRIPTURE When the 69th week began/concluded.....but again this is A WHOLE not a perfect mathematical divide.

the rest of the puzzle, wrests on how you interpret the "HE" IN DANIEL 9:27

[Dan 9:27 ]

27 "And he will confirm a covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week "HE" WILL PUT A STOP TO SACRIFICE AND GRAIN OFFERINGS; and on the wing of abominations [will come] the one who makes desolate, until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, gushes forth on the one who makes desolate."

after years of study and comparing scripture with scripture and following every passage...I CLEARLY SEE THE "HE" AS JESUS not the anti-christ which is a popular view......

you might say, "WHEN DID JESUS MAKE THE SACRIFICE & GRAIN OFFERINGS DESOLATE?"

[Matthew 27:51 NASB20] 51 And behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth shook and the rocks were split.

[Mark 15:38 NASB20] 38 And the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom.

[Luke 23:45 NASB20] 45 because the sun stopped shining; and the veil of the temple was torn in two.

APPLYING , the former to the latter, jesus himself put a stop to the sacrifice and offerings.....NOT A FUTURE ANTI CHRIST!!!

So using this principle, it can be understood why the new testament speaks ONLY OF A 3.5 YEAR PERIOD ALLOTTED TO SATAN AND HIS CHAMPION to have their attempt, Peter says,

[1Pe 4:12, 17]

12 Beloved, do not think it strange concerning the fiery trial WHICH IS TO TRY "YOU", as though some strange thing happened to you; ... 17 For the time [has come] for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if [it begins] with us first, what will [be] the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?

or you may prefer the biblical view of "SEPARATING THE WHEAT & TARES, I.E SHEEP AND GOAT JUDGEMENT"

THE BATTLE RAGES TIL THE LION ROARS

Jesus covenant of Salvation is everlasting and not that 7 years fake covenant of peace deal between Israel - arab enemies.

Edited April 5 by R. Hartono

[Charlie744]

On 4/4/2024 at 3:57 AM, SACREDWARRIOR said:

WHEN DID/DO THE END TIMES , AS SPOKEN IN THE BIBLE BEGAN/BEGAN?

popular belief #1, is an end time period of 7 years where both satan & Jesus duke it out for control of mankind. satans champion known as the anti-christ....

It May surprise you to know that a 7 year period of this nature CAN NOT BE FOUND WITHIN THE PAGES OF THE BIBLE!!!!!

The Prophet Daniel, speaks of a period of 70 weeks of years.....hence....7 year divisions per se. it is however not given emphatically as to how these weeks of years are to be split up......we know FROM SCRIPTURE When the 69th week began/concluded.....but again this is A WHOLE not a perfect mathematical divide.

the rest of the puzzle, wrests on how you interpret the "HE" IN DANIEL 9:27

[Dan 9:27 ]

27 "And he will confirm a covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week "HE" WILL PUT A STOP TO SACRIFICE AND GRAIN OFFERINGS; and on the wing of abominations [will come] the one who makes desolate, until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, gushes forth on the one who makes desolate."

after years of study and comparing scripture with scripture and following every passage...I CLEARLY SEE THE "HE" AS JESUS not the anti-christ which is a popular view......

you might say, "WHEN DID JESUS MAKE THE SACRIFICE & GRAIN OFFERINGS DESOLATE?"

[Matthew 27:51 NASB20] 51 And behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth shook and the rocks were split.

[Mark 15:38 NASB20] 38 And the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom.

[Luke 23:45 NASB20] 45 because the sun stopped shining; and the veil of the temple was torn in two.

APPLYING , the former to the latter, jesus himself put a stop to the sacrifice and offerings.....NOT A FUTURE ANTI CHRIST!!!

So using this principle, it can be understood why the new testament speaks ONLY OF A 3.5 YEAR PERIOD ALLOTTED TO SATAN AND HIS CHAMPION to have their attempt, Peter says,

[1Pe 4:12, 17]

12 Beloved, do not think it strange concerning the fiery trial WHICH IS TO TRY "YOU", as though some strange thing happened to you; ... 17 For the time [has come] for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if [it begins] with us first, what will [be] the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?

or you may prefer the biblical view of "SEPARATING THE WHEAT & TARES, I.E SHEEP AND GOAT JUDGEMENT"

THE BATTLE RAGES TIL THE LION ROARS

Very nice! You are indeed correct. The Messiah arrived exactly in time: He was baptized by John and anointed by His Father on the very first day of the 70th week of the 70 weeks of years prophecy. ALL of the physical elements (Temple, walls, streets, Sanctuary, etc., and ALL of the elements relating to the Levitical ceremonies, including the Sabbatical cycles, etc., HAD TO BE COMPLETED BEFORE the Messiah could arrive in the last week of the prophecy. 
 

The 490 years was a period of complete restoration for the Jews and His city. Consequently, God would ensure that everything that was destroyed by the Babylonians was fully restored in the reverse order they were taken away.

This is why everything had to be restored before He arrived- Jesus would represent the first piece of furniture taken away by Jeremiah- the Ark of the Covenant. Now, Jesus would be the last piece of furniture to be restored in that He would restore the presence of God back in the Sanctuary (He would be the “Ark of the Covenant”) restored. Now, God had specifically “set aside” the last week of the 70 for His Messiah to fulfill His God given mission (9:24).

So, the “he” in 9:27 years s indeed no other that Jesus, and He would confirm the Covenant identified in Jeremiah 31:31-34, AND, He would fulfill or complete this assignment DURING (not for) the last week or the last 7 years of the prophecy. 
 

His death would remove or do away with the need for having any further animal sacrifices or offerings. This would be accomplished in the “midst of the week” (crucified exactly 3.5 years INTO THIS FINAL 7 year period).

One of the most important misinterpretations is also found within these TRULY MESSIANIC verses: the “Abomination that causes desolation.” This term refers to the “cross.” It was such a horrific and “abominable” act that was done to THEIR Messiah. It was the Jews rejection and His crucifixion that defines the “Abomination that would CAUSE the complete desolation of the Jews from their God.

There is no act that could rise to a greater evil or level than their rejection and murder of their Messiah. And there is no greater punishment than for God to make “desolate” His relationship and THEIR ability to have access to THEIR GOD for the coming 2000 years. God would remove or make “desolate” His presence from His people. 
 

BUT, there is GOOD NEWS for God will NEVER abandon His people!!

After the time of the Gentile had come to an end, God will remove the blindness from the eyes of His people (it will be like the e  experience that Paul had), and they will recognize the One they had pierced. 

When this occurs, His people will go out into the world for exactly 3.5 years and preach the Word of God AND the Testimony of Jesus. 
 

This will do two things: after 3.5 years, it will bring in the second coming (Jesus can not return BEFORE His people complete THIS / THEIR FINAL ASSIGNMENT. The second thing also relates to this action by the Jews.

The 70 weeks of years prophecy was COMPLETELY FULFILLED BY BOTH PARTIES DURING THE TIME OF THE MESSIAH. Jesus fulfilled ALL 6 requirements in 9:24 (spiritual requirements), and the Jews fulfilled ALL their requirements BEFORE the first day of the 70th week. But, because they rejected their Messiah exactly 3.5 years of the remaining 490 years (also the last week was shorted by these last 3.5 years). The 4th and final Great Jubilee could not be finished. This FINAL Great Jubilee was ALSO SCHEDULED to be completed at the end of the last week of the 490 year prophecy. Consequently, it MUST BE COMPLETED BEFORE THE MESSIAH CAN RETURN.

And this is a requirement OF THE JEWS, not God! And this is the manner that God had designed at the end time for His people to once again return to Him and complete the time requirement (3.5 years) remaining for the 4th and final Great Jubilee. 
 

Long way of answering your question, but Jesus will and can not return UNTIL HE RESTORES THEIR SIGHT and they recognize He was their Messiah and they preach for 3.5 years. 
 

By the way, the “people” of the prince to come represent the Roman people headed by Titus in 70 AD when they will destroy everything. The “prince who is to come” is the “little horn” of Daniel 7 and 8 who will come to full power AFTER pagan Rome (4th beast kingdom) is slain and its body is destroyed (chapter 7). Then the little horn (papacy) will replace pagan Rome and he “papacy” will appropriate His church and the “state” after pagan Rome and “will continue” until he is destroyed without human hands. 
 

 

 

[JoeCanada]

18 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

By the way, the “people” of the prince to come represent the Roman people headed by Titus in 70 AD when they will destroy everything.

Hi Charlie,

The "prince to come" is an angelic being.... (demonic)

We know this from the angel Gabriel's words to Daniel:

                                 "But the prince of the kingdom of Persia was withstanding me for twenty-one days; then behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left there with the kings of Persia."...Dan 10:13

                                  "Then he said, “Do you understand why I came to you? But I shall now return to fight against the prince of Persia; so I am going forth, and behold, the prince of Greece is about to come."...Dan 10:20

                                   "“However, I will tell you what is inscribed in the writing of truth. Yet there is no one who stands firmly with me against these forces except Michael your prince."....Dan 10:21

Jerusalem is destroyed by people related to the ruler to come.....ie: "the prince to come".

We know from history that Jerusalem was actually destroyed in 70 AD by Syrian and Arabian men fighting as soldiers.....in Roman uniform..... in the Roman auxiliaries and legions. The two main legions that set fire to the temple were the Legio X Fretensis and Legio X11 Fulminata. The soldiers in these Legions were Syrians and Arabs.

The Syrian Legion X11 Fulminata had an intense hatred for the Jews especially after their humiliating defeat at the Battle of Beth Horon in AD 66.............. they were looking for revenge.

So.... NO..........  the people of the prince who is to come do not represent the Roman people.

The people of the prince who is to come, those who destroyed the temple, represent the Arab people.....Syrians.

 

 

Edited April 7 by JoeCanada

[JoeCanada]

19 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

there is no greater punishment than for God to make “desolate” His relationship and THEIR ability to have access to THEIR GOD for the coming 2000 years. God would remove or make “desolate” His presence from His people. 

Charlie.... 

This is a rather "strong" statement.

Are you referring to "national Israel"?..... Those unrepentant Jews?..... The Pharisees?...... 

Certainly God will never turn away a repentant sinner, whether Jew or Gentile. All have access to the Throne. 

19 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Long way of answering your question, but Jesus will and can not return UNTIL HE RESTORES THEIR SIGHT and they recognize He was their Messiah and they preach for 3.5 years. 

????? 

[Charlie744]

46 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

Hi Charlie,

The "prince to come" is an angelic being.... (demonic)

We know this from the angel Gabriel's words to Daniel:

                                 "But the prince of the kingdom of Persia was withstanding me for twenty-one days; then behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left there with the kings of Persia."...Dan 10:13

                                  "Then he said, “Do you understand why I came to you? But I shall now return to fight against the prince of Persia; so I am going forth, and behold, the prince of Greece is about to come."...Dan 10:20

                                   "“However, I will tell you what is inscribed in the writing of truth. Yet there is no one who stands firmly with me against these forces except Michael your prince."....Dan 10:21

Jerusalem is destroyed by people related to the ruler to come.....ie: "the prince to come".

We know from history that Jerusalem was actually destroyed in 70 AD by Syrian and Arabian men fighting as soldiers.....in Roman uniform..... in the Roman auxiliaries and legions. The two main legions that set fire to the temple were the Legio X Fretensis and Legio X11 Fulminata. The soldiers in these Legions were Syrians and Arabs.

The Syrian Legion X11 Fulminata had an intense hatred for the Jews especially after their humiliating defeat at the Battle of Beth Horon in AD 66.............. they were looking for revenge.

So.... NO..........  the people of the prince who is to come do not represent the Roman people.

The people of the prince who is to come, those who destroyed the temple, represent the Arab people.....Syrians.

 

 

As you know, the word “prince” is used in Daniel a few times and they do not represent the same person. 
 

The “people” of the “prince to come”are those who will destroy the Temple and murder the Jews in 70 AD. They are within the pagan Roman Empire after the cross when the Jews rebelled against pagan Rome from 66-70 AD. 
 

But the “prince to come” is the one who comes out of pagan Rome (the 4th beast kingdom) in the future. He will not become this “prince” over the “people of pagan Rome” until pagan Rome is destroyed and its body is slain (chapter 7). 
 

In chapter 7, the “little horn” is first found to come out of this 4th beast kingdom but only after the 10 horns come out of the 4th beast kingdom. He follows right behind these 10 horns for the next 400 years. By the time pagan Rome is destroyed around 467 AD, the little horn has amassed great power over the Christian church. Soon, the 10 horns AND the little horn will be found to “sit atop” the 4th beast kingdom, meaning they will have come to full power and rule over both church and state. 
 

Michael is indeed referred to in Daniel as one of the “chief princes,” and there is two other “princes” (Persia and Greece) mentioned later in Daniel. However, none of these refer to a “prince” that would come to rule over the “literal people” who would destroy Israel.

The one, Gabriel is obviously an angel of God while the other two are followers of Satan. 

 

[JoeCanada]

15 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Michael is indeed referred to in Daniel as one of the “chief princes,” and there is two other “princes” (Persia and Greece) mentioned later in Daniel. However, none of these refer to a “prince” that would come to rule over the “literal people” who would destroy Israel.

Who then, is this "prince" that will rule over the people who would destroy Israel. Do you mean Jerusalem?

[Charlie744]

59 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

Charlie.... 

This is a rather "strong" statement.

Are you referring to "national Israel"?..... Those unrepentant Jews?..... The Pharisees?...... 

Certainly God will never turn away a repentant sinner, whether Jew or Gentile. All have access to the Throne. 

????? 

Joe, it is a very strong statement. Remember, approximately 2600 years earlier at the time of Daniel, God, who had given His people so many chances to repent from their disobedience and idolatry, had finally had enough and sent them into captivity in Babylon for 70 years. AND God also punished His people by allowing the Babylonians to COMPLETELY destroy His Temple, the walls and streets of Jerusalem and take away the holy vessels. EVERYTHING WAS COMPLETELY DESTROYED AT THAT TIME.

Fast forward these 2600 years and we find, not just His people disobeying Him, BUT here they LITERALLY REJECT HIM AND CRUCIFY HIM!!! 
 

Don’t you think their actions and decisions to reject and crucify their Messiah was SO MUCH GREATER THAN ANYTHING THEY COULD HAVE DONE? What could they have done against God that could be a greater sin or transgression?
 

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! No sin or transgression could ever be as great as this… consequently, this level of punishment would far surpass that which was done to His people in 606 BC. 
 

As a direct result of their rejection AND His crucifixion God would remove His presence from His people. They would no longer have access to Him. Now, you also realize that this “desolation” He would impose on His people for the next 2000 years (until the times of the Gentiles is finished), is imposed only on those Jews who would CONTINUE to reject Him after the Cross. Obviously, Paul, John, even Peter and ALL the Jews who would accept Jesus (after the Cross) would NOT be “made desolate” (Pentecost), so unless they accepted Jesus as their Messiah, He would turn from them. 
 

But as the say, “God will NEVER abandon His people.” He will once again restore the sight of those who rejected Him and they will be heard saying, “Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord… “