The limitations of edification

[JohnD]

From Eden's Garden to the Day of Judgment the fallibility of man and human inability to understand have

limited Almighty God in his progressive revelation to man.

For example: the Apostle Paul spoke of the third heaven in 2 Corinthians 12 in a time when humanity had no

real understanding of cosmology:

 

Hence the use of metaphors to covey infinite points to finite minds.

Jesus described heaven as a house of the Father having many mansions. And as a far country. And that heaven is within. Of all the many attempts to describe heaven

(which always fall woefully short of their claim to definitively describe heaven) suffice it to say it is beyond our ability to fully grasp in this life, with our limited minds

having no reference points (other than the metaphors) to even describe heaven.  Heaven is above, hell is below, it is a kingdom, it is within and among us...

In our attempts at artistry (specifically writing things like science fiction) we imagine concepts which very well could be applied to heaven... as the universe, another 

dimension within this universe, multi-dimensional.

2 Corinthians 12:1–5 (KJV)
1 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
5 Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.

This is a humble testimony of the Apostle Paul describing what he could about a time when he was stoned and left for dead. Humble in that it does not mention his being raised from the

dead or that it was even him. Two take-aways

1. not lawful is more about beyond description than breaking any laws mentioning what he saw and heard.

2. the difference between being in a body and out of a body is apparently so insignificant as to be hard to distinguish (at least initially).

Another example is found in Luke 16:19-31 we read about the disembodied spirits of Abraham, Lazarus, and the Rich Man.

The account is not post-resurrection / judgment day.

It is Sheol the place of disembodied spirits of the dead at a time before the cross. Since the cross of Christ, all who die believing in Jesus go directly to heaven to be with him there in our

disembodied state (2 Corinthians 5:8). 

Note the similarities of the disembodied spirits and the functions of the human body:

1. sight

2. speech

3. hearing

4. sensing pain

5. sensing comfort

6. thirst / quenching thirst

7. recognition of others

8. the ability to speak to others across a great chasm / abyss (more a trait of spirit than body, I will grant you)

This could also have been metaphor / anthropomorphic speech (using human terms to describe a situation that

is beyond human understanding). Which I grant the possibility... but then again, what Paul said in 2 Corinthians 12

about being unable to determine if in the body or out of the body lends itself to the literal interpretation of Luke 16:19-31.

According to Ephesians 4:8-10 Abraham's Bosom was emptied out by Jesus the same day he died on the cross (according to

Luke 23:43). Henceforth:

2 Corinthians 5:8 (KJV)
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Amen.

[JohnD]

What will  heaven be like?

We must remember that the present heavens and earth will be done away with and a new heaven and new earth will be created in their place.

Since we will be with God directly in that eternal kingdom, it's just my opinion, but I believe the two (heaven and earth) will be fused into one

heaven-earth (in like manner we as individuals will be fused into one spirit-body where presently we are body, soul, spirit). 1 Corinthians 15 touches on

the subject of our spiritual body (which will be like Christ's resurrected body see 1 John 3:2).

 

Eternally:

Heaven has been described (in human terms) as being a mountain top where fiery stones and streets of gold and gates of pearl

exist. Mansions are prepared for those who reside there. We cannot perceive of the way heaven will be, not really. The one thing 

we can understand is that we will be with Jesus forever and forever and ever. And IMHO that is what makes heaven heaven.

 

[luigi]

Good day JohnD,

The kingdom of heaven is the same as the kingdom of God, which is within us (Luke 17:21). Heaven is spiritual. The reason the vast majority of us are not able to attain heaven, and are thus currently under Gods altar, is because of our other carnal interests.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

[Michael37]

10 hours ago, JohnD said:

(using human terms to describe a situation that

is beyond human understanding).

Ecc 3:11  He has made everything beautiful in its time. Also He has put eternity in their hearts, except that no one can find out the work that God does from beginning to end.

[D. Adrien]

9 hours ago, luigi said:

Good day JohnD,

The kingdom of heaven is the same as the kingdom of God, which is within us (Luke 17:21). Heaven is spiritual. The reason the vast majority of us are not able to attain heaven, and are thus currently under Gods altar, is because of our other carnal interests.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

But there is a battle raging within.

Mark 7:20-23

And he said, “What comes out of a person is what defiles him. For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”

Evil thoughts and foolishness cover everything else not specifically listed above. The Holy Spirit will need to deal with this in each one of us. Our part? submission and agreement.

Edit: There are times for me that submission is much easier than agreement when the Holy Spirit reveals sin and failings. Justification from me and not from God.

Edited April 18, 2024 by D. Adrien
Another thought.