The gathering of the Lords people

[RdJ]

13 minutes ago, luigi said:

In the end times, the Lords wrath will fall upon those who have persecuted the circumcised in heart Israel during the 3.5 times (1,260 days) tribulation period. This Israel are the gathered believers from the four corners of the earth, which will include a remnant of full blood Jews.

Yes both. All Israel and Jerusalem, all the tribes like Zecharia 12 says and all christians.

 It shall come to pass in that day That the Lord shall set His hand again the second time To recover the remnant of His people who are left, From Assyria and Egypt, From Pathros and Cush, From Elam and Shinar, From Hamath and the islands of the sea. He will set up a banner for the nations, And will assemble the outcasts of Israel, And gather together the dispersed of Judah From the four corners of the earth. Also the envy of Ephraim shall depart, And the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off; Ephraim shall not envy Judah, And Judah shall not harass Ephraim. But they shall fly down upon the shoulder of the Philistines toward the west; 
Isaiah 11 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/isa.11.9-16.NKJV

 

 

[luigi]

6 minutes ago, RdJ said:

Yes both. All Israel and Jerusalem, all the tribes like Zecharia 12 says and all christians.

 It shall come to pass in that day That the Lord shall set His hand again the second time To recover the remnant of His people who are left, From Assyria and Egypt, From Pathros and Cush, From Elam and Shinar, From Hamath and the islands of the sea. He will set up a banner for the nations, And will assemble the outcasts of Israel, And gather together the dispersed of Judah From the four corners of the earth. Also the envy of Ephraim shall depart, And the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off; Ephraim shall not envy Judah, And Judah shall not harass Ephraim. But they shall fly down upon the shoulder of the Philistines toward the west; 
Isaiah 11 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/isa.11.9-16.NKJV

 

 

The first gathering was from Egypt (Isaiah 11:16). The second gathering is forthcoming. And this gathering consists of all circumcised in heart believers, that will include a remnant of full blood Jews.

Isaiah 11:16 And there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt.

[RdJ]

33 minutes ago, luigi said:

The first gathering was from Egypt (Isaiah 11:16). The second gathering is forthcoming. And this gathering consists of all circumcised in heart believers, that will include a remnant of full blood Jews.

Isaiah 11:16 And there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt.

But remnant can't be christians from the gentiles. Remnant is always from Israel. Not only Juda. The other tribes mixed with the nations.

[luigi]

36 minutes ago, RdJ said:

But remnant can't be christians from the gentiles. Remnant is always from Israel. Not only Juda. The other tribes mixed with the nations.

Remnant survivors is from all believers during the great tribulation, which will take many lives (Revelation 6:9-11). 

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Edited April 25, 2024 by luigi

[RdJ]

5 hours ago, luigi said:

Remnant survivors is from all believers during the great tribulation, which will take many lives (Revelation 6:9-11). 

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

 I thought all christians get killed, because it says they have to wait until their brethren are also killed. The ac kills everyone with no mark and then the plagues come as judgement, but first the 144000 get sealed in Revelation 7 and later there's the uncountable multitude.

Israel has a safe place in the desert. That happens before this, at the beginning of the 3,5 years, so then they have already been brought there.

Maybe the ac lets them go there the first 3,5 years when he slimes to them and they think: this must be the messiah.

Revelation 12 Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child.

14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent.

15 So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood.

16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth.

17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

Revelation 7

After these things I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, on the sea, or on any tree. 2 Then I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God. And he cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, 3 saying, “Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” 4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:

After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 10 and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” 

13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”

14 And I said to him, “Sir, you know.”

So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 

Sounds like the gathering is to Him in heaven and not to Israel, because after this the plagues come.

 

Isaiah 11, the next verse in Isaiah 12:1 says:

And in that day you will say: “O Lord, I will praise You; Though You were angry with me, Your anger is turned away, and You comfort me.
Isaiah 12:1 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/isa.12.1.NKJV

That's about Israel, not about christians from the gentiles.

Isaiah 10, Jacob is Israel before he wrestled with God. That's not about gentile christians and the christians who are gentiles who just got saved in the trib don't return to God, because they never left Him.

And it shall come to pass in that day That the remnant of Israel, And such as have escaped of the house of Jacob, Will never again depend on him who defeated them, But will depend on the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, in truth. The remnant will return, the remnant of Jacob, To the Mighty God. For though your people, O Israel, be as the sand of the sea, A remnant of them will return; The destruction decreed shall overflow with righteousness. For yet a very little while and the indignation will cease, as will My anger in their destruction.”

It shall come to pass in that day That his burden will be taken away from your shoulder, And his yoke from your neck, And the yoke will be destroyed because of the anointing oil. As yet he will remain at Nob that day; He will shake his fist at the mount of the daughter of Zion, The hill of Jerusalem.
Isaiah 10:20‭-‬22‭, ‬25‭-‬27‭, ‬32 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/isa.10.20-32.NKJV

Ezekiel 37 is not about christians:

 Then He said to me, “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. They indeed say, ‘Our bones are dry, our hope is lost, and we ourselves are cut off!’ 12 Therefore prophesy and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Behold, O My people, I will open your graves and cause you to come up from your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13 Then you shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and brought you up from your graves. 14 I will put My Spirit in you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I, the Lord, have spoken it and performed it,” says the Lord.’ ”

 

Edited April 25, 2024 by RdJ

[JohnD]

The OP has discovered the inclusion factor of the Spirit House of Israel / Judah (Romans 2:28-29 / Romans 9:6 / Philippians 3:3) which applies the New Covenant to all people (Jeremiah 31:31-34). But the OP has mistakenly interpreted this to mean it replaces physical Jews (which is does not). Even in unbelief in this life the physical Jews (heirs of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob) are still the chosen / elect / circumcision of this world. They alone are entitled to the land grants of God in Eretz Israel (Ezekiel 46:16-18).

Our inheritance is the New Jerusalem (Galatians 4). We are the chosen / elect / circumcision from above.

Replacement theology of any kind is heresy.

We who are born Gentiles who came to the faith in the Jewish Messiah are grafted into that vine spiritually (Romans 11).

The regathering of the Jews in Ezekiel 37 is about 1948 and beyond. The Jewish people in the Holy Land are those inhabitants and the rightful owners / heirs to the land.

[luigi]

On 4/25/2024 at 2:06 AM, RdJ said:

 I thought all christians get killed, because it says they have to wait until their brethren are also killed. The ac kills everyone with no mark and then the plagues come as judgement, but first the 144000 get sealed in Revelation 7 and later there's the uncountable multitude.

Israel has a safe place in the desert. That happens before this, at the beginning of the 3,5 years, so then they have already been brought there.

Maybe the ac lets them go there the first 3,5 years when he slimes to them and they think: this must be the messiah.

Revelation 12 Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child.

14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent.

15 So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood.

16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth.

17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

Revelation 7

After these things I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, on the sea, or on any tree. 2 Then I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God. And he cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, 3 saying, “Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” 4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:

After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 10 and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” 

13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”

14 And I said to him, “Sir, you know.”

So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 

Sounds like the gathering is to Him in heaven and not to Israel, because after this the plagues come.

 

Isaiah 11, the next verse in Isaiah 12:1 says:

And in that day you will say: “O Lord, I will praise You; Though You were angry with me, Your anger is turned away, and You comfort me.
Isaiah 12:1 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/isa.12.1.NKJV

That's about Israel, not about christians from the gentiles.

Isaiah 10, Jacob is Israel before he wrestled with God. That's not about gentile christians and the christians who are gentiles who just got saved in the trib don't return to God, because they never left Him.

And it shall come to pass in that day That the remnant of Israel, And such as have escaped of the house of Jacob, Will never again depend on him who defeated them, But will depend on the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, in truth. The remnant will return, the remnant of Jacob, To the Mighty God. For though your people, O Israel, be as the sand of the sea, A remnant of them will return; The destruction decreed shall overflow with righteousness. For yet a very little while and the indignation will cease, as will My anger in their destruction.”

It shall come to pass in that day That his burden will be taken away from your shoulder, And his yoke from your neck, And the yoke will be destroyed because of the anointing oil. As yet he will remain at Nob that day; He will shake his fist at the mount of the daughter of Zion, The hill of Jerusalem.
Isaiah 10:20‭-‬22‭, ‬25‭-‬27‭, ‬32 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/isa.10.20-32.NKJV

Ezekiel 37 is not about christians:

 Then He said to me, “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. They indeed say, ‘Our bones are dry, our hope is lost, and we ourselves are cut off!’ 12 Therefore prophesy and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Behold, O My people, I will open your graves and cause you to come up from your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13 Then you shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and brought you up from your graves. 14 I will put My Spirit in you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I, the Lord, have spoken it and performed it,” says the Lord.’ ”

 

Good morning Rdj,

I don't know if all of the faith in Christ who believe in love, truth, and justice, get killed during the beasts 42 month reign, but it certainly is the vast majority, with only a remnant indicated coming away with their skins following the beasts 42  month reign. These remnant believing survivors (including a remnant of full blood Jews), are whom the beast, the false prophet and Satan will come to make war against in Armageddon (Revelation 16). This event occurs after the Lord has gathered these remnant believers from the four corners/winds of the earth, bringing them to the Middle East which will earlier have been desolated by the Abomination of Desolation. Revelation 14 (in retrospect to following chapters of Revelation), indicates the first harvest of the earth being they who believe in love, truth, and justice. I believe these faithful first harvest are those killed in Armageddon. The second harvest is of the nonbelieving, who are unloving, lying, and unjust, who are they in Revelation 16, who experience all of Gods wrath. 

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

[luigi]

On 4/25/2024 at 5:09 AM, JohnD said:

The OP has discovered the inclusion factor of the Spirit House of Israel / Judah (Romans 2:28-29 / Romans 9:6 / Philippians 3:3) which applies the New Covenant to all people (Jeremiah 31:31-34). But the OP has mistakenly interpreted this to mean it replaces physical Jews (which is does not). Even in unbelief in this life the physical Jews (heirs of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob) are still the chosen / elect / circumcision of this world. They alone are entitled to the land grants of God in Eretz Israel (Ezekiel 46:16-18).

Our inheritance is the New Jerusalem (Galatians 4). We are the chosen / elect / circumcision from above.

Replacement theology of any kind is heresy.

We who are born Gentiles who came to the faith in the Jewish Messiah are grafted into that vine spiritually (Romans 11).

The regathering of the Jews in Ezekiel 37 is about 1948 and beyond. The Jewish people in the Holy Land are those inhabitants and the rightful owners / heirs to the land.

I suspect you are aware that during the first gathering of Israel from Egypt, that included among the Exodus were many others who were not physically born Jews, who were assimilated into the new nation to be. As such, how do you explain these non born of Jacob, Israelites, (including Moses' wife), being of Abraham?

Edited April 26, 2024 by luigi

[luigi]

On 4/25/2024 at 2:06 AM, RdJ said:

 

 

Isaiah 11, the next verse in Isaiah 12:1 says:

And in that day you will say: “O Lord, I will praise You; Though You were angry with me, Your anger is turned away, and You comfort me.
Isaiah 12:1 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/isa.12.1.NKJV

That's about Israel, not about christians from the gentiles.

 

 

Hi again Rdj,

While you believe Isaiah 12 is solely about full blood Jews; I on the other hand believe these to be composed of all who believe in the Way of Christ (the remnant survivors, including full blood Jews), whom the Lord shall have gathered from the four corners of the earth, and four winds of heaven, to place them in the desolated lands of Israel and other desolated Middle Eastern nations, following the Abomination of desolations carnage. 

[RdJ]

4 hours ago, luigi said:

Hi again Rdj,

While you believe Isaiah 12 is solely about full blood Jews; I on the other hand believe these to be composed of all who believe in the Way of Christ (the remnant survivors, including full blood Jews), whom the Lord shall have gathered from the four corners of the earth, and four winds of heaven, to place them in the desolated lands of Israel and other desolated Middle Eastern nations, following the Abomination of desolations carnage. 

Why would the remnant survivors cry over Him like a first born if they are not from Israel? It may be that also gentile believers will live there, cause He got rid of the middle wall and every believer who died is in Jerusalem that comes down from heaven I suppose or they follow Him, but I don't see why someone who converts from the gentiles would weep over Him as a first born and why does it say everyone from the tribe of .. and their women. Makes no sense if you make that about spiritual Israel. What tribe are they from then?