Michael37 Posted April 28 Group: Servant Followers: 21 Topic Count: 244 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 7,022 Content Per Day: 3.28 Reputation: 4,938 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/05/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/23/1954 Share Posted April 28 22 hours ago, Marilyn C said: Good to think upon these questions as they help us appreciate God`s character and His purposes. So...Why didn`t God cast Lucifer/Satan into the lake of Fire - 1. After he had sinned in the angelic realm and was cast out. 2. After he had deluded Adam and Eve. 3. After Christ rose from the dead. 4. After the tribulation. I recently heard a message emphasising that Satan is no threat to God and never has any advantage over Him. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vine Abider Posted April 29 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 6 Topic Count: 206 Topics Per Day: 0.36 Content Count: 3,485 Content Per Day: 6.15 Reputation: 2,334 Days Won: 3 Joined: 10/25/2022 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/01/2024 Share Posted April 29 @Marilyn C When it comes to these semi-esoteric questions about "Why did God . . .?" my thoughts turn to His character/primary motivations. God is love & light, so somehow an answer likely can be found along those lines. Love requires free will and wants relationships, so God creates beings with a free will capable of choosing. The devil made his choice, because he swelled with pride. Man used his free will to chose wrongly, and also got infected with pride (and supposed independence - from God, the source of life - resulting in death). But God, in His desire to show forth His great love, sent Christ to restore us. And we get restored through believing His substitutionary blood sacrifice and then His Spirit comes to indwell us and help us become fully restored/holy --> made into His image. So why leave the enemy around (and I would add the flesh in there)? In order to get stronger, everything needs resistance.* And rewards only come with adversity/resistance. Again, why leave the devil around? I would say because God loves us and wants to demonstrate how much: "This momentary light affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory that is beyond comparison." 2 Cor 4:17 * i.e., the enemy is a useful tool to that end - to help demonstrate through us the all-powerful riches we have in Christ! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted April 29 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 269 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,231 Content Per Day: 3.48 Reputation: 8,517 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Online Birthday: 10/06/1947 Author Share Posted April 29 Hi all, such great answers and some in great detail. I`ll just keep it short. Summary - God gave angels and man opportunity to rule righteously but they failed. God knew before hand; however we & angels need to see the proof as the motives are exposed over time. Jesus alone is shown to be the Worthy one to rule all of God`s great Kingdom. 1. Lucifer cast out of the angelic realm. God is not a dictator so Lucifer`s unrighteous rulership needs to be exposed. 2. Satan deludes Adam and Eve. Thus, they are `connected,` swayed by him and this needs addressing. 3. Christ ascended to glory. Satan`s connection to man is broken. Those who receive Jesus are now able to overcome Satan`s power. Satan`s unrighteous rulership of the world is exposed when he brings together his one world government under his leader. Attempting to annihilate God`s chosen nation, Israel, brings swift judgment. 4. After the Tribulation Satan is `chained,` and the Lord rules through Israel over the nations. Many walk in His ways but many join with Satan at the final battle. They are all destroyed. Man`s sinfulness is shown even when Satan was bound and the Lord`s rulership through Israel prevailed. Note: The gradual decline of Satan`s power and authority reveal his unrighteous rulership while God is shown to be just bringing judgment upon him and those who follow him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RdJ Posted April 29 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 68 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,189 Content Per Day: 0.38 Reputation: 677 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/11/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/25/1970 Share Posted April 29 4 hours ago, Marilyn C said: God gave angels and man opportunity to rule righteously but they failed. God knew before hand Man yes but angels I'm not certain of that. He declares the end from the beginning, but the beginning was when He created the earth and then satan already fell. Why does it say that the Lamb was slain before the foundation of the earth and not from eternity past or something? I may be totally wrong but I think it's possible that He did not know satan would fall. Because He created Adam in His image and Adam knew what was good and not, but he did not know how evil satan was. If he had known he would not have sinned. He got to know when he ate of the tree of knowledge by experience of good (God) and evil (satan). So how could God know evil by experience when He is Light and in Him there is no darkness at all, He never sinned and Adam was created like Him and Jesus is the innocent Lamb of God? I thought (but I made all this up to defend Him from a bunch of angry atheists): the only way for God who is only good to experience evil is by satan sinning against Him. I just can't imagine that God knew and then made a splendid angel anyway, knowing he would become the first narcissist. Could be that He knew. It does not matter, but I am not convinced. Lexicon :: Strong's H1847 - daʿaṯ דַּעַת https://engediresourcecenter.com/2015/06/30/dat-elohim-knowledge-of-god/ : biblical concept called the “knowledge of God,” da’at elohim. A Westerner opens the Bible and wants to prove God’s existence and develop a theology about God’s nature, and would call that “knowledge of God.” But the Hebraic view is that “knowledge of God” is having a life in relationship with him. This is true spiritual wisdom: to know the Lord’s will and live it out. Funny thing is, at that time my son was 4 or 5 and he asked me similar questions every day. Why did God create vulcanoes? Vulcanoes are horrible and kill people. Why did God do that? Why did God create satan? So I gave him this answer and LOL he was like: oh yes of course. Because that age your mom is an all knowing oracle. And meanwhile those people online were not having any of my explanations and they just asked them to trick gullible naive christians to their forum, so I said: Didn't your mom tell you that when you were a kid? My mom said that my brother did it too as a kid, but she got annoyed and told him: go ask a reverend LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael37 Posted April 29 Group: Servant Followers: 21 Topic Count: 244 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 7,022 Content Per Day: 3.28 Reputation: 4,938 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/05/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/23/1954 Share Posted April 29 29 minutes ago, RdJ said: Man yes but angels I'm not certain of that. He declares the end from the beginning, but the beginning was when He created the earth and then satan already fell. Why does it say that the Lamb was slain before the foundation of the earth and not from eternity past or something? I may be totally wrong but I think it's possible that He did not know satan would fall. Because He created Adam in His image and Adam knew what was good and not, but he did not know how evil satan was. If he had known he would not have sinned. He got to know when he ate of the tree of knowledge by experience of good (God) and evil (satan). So how could God know evil by experience when He is Light and in Him there is no darkness at all, He never sinned and Adam was created like Him and Jesus is the innocent Lamb of God? I thought (but I made all this up to defend Him from a bunch of angry atheists): the only way for God who is only good to experience evil is by satan sinning against Him. I just can't imagine that God knew and then made a splendid angel anyway, knowing he would become the first narcissist. Could be that He knew. It does not matter, but I am not convinced. Lexicon :: Strong's H1847 - daʿaṯ דַּעַת https://engediresourcecenter.com/2015/06/30/dat-elohim-knowledge-of-god/ : biblical concept called the “knowledge of God,” da’at elohim. A Westerner opens the Bible and wants to prove God’s existence and develop a theology about God’s nature, and would call that “knowledge of God.” But the Hebraic view is that “knowledge of God” is having a life in relationship with him. This is true spiritual wisdom: to know the Lord’s will and live it out. Funny thing is, at that time my son was 4 or 5 and he asked me similar questions every day. Why did God create vulcanoes? Vulcanoes are horrible and kill people. Why did God do that? Why did God create satan? So I gave him this answer and LOL he was like: oh yes of course. Because that age your mom is an all knowing oracle. And meanwhile those people online were not having any of my explanations and they just asked them to trick gullible naive christians to their forum, so I said: Didn't your mom tell you that when you were a kid? My mom said that my brother did it too as a kid, but she got annoyed and told him: go ask a reverend LOL. Hi @RdJ Biblical Theology begins with God being Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Omniscient. This means that in Eternity and Infinity He always exists and always knows all that is knowable, so that each second of time and everything that exists in that second is examinable by God in Eternity and Infinity. If this were not so God would not be God. The fact that God put the Tree Of The Knowledge Of Good And Evil in the Garden of Eden proves He knew beforehand what evil was. God always knows everything regardless of time. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revelation Man Posted April 30 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 4,106 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 561 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/01/2016 Status: Online Share Posted April 30 (edited) On 4/27/2024 at 8:40 PM, Marilyn C said: Good to think upon these questions as they help us appreciate God`s character and His purposes. So...Why didn`t God cast Lucifer/Satan into the lake of Fire - 1. After he had sinned in the angelic realm and was cast out. Because he had God given rights to be judged, like we do, our lives last in our body roughly 70 years give or take, Satan had a Glorious body, he was cast out of heaven and I am pretty sure their glorious bodies were taken away, that is why they are now in Spirit form. But, God can not just say, following Lucifer is wrong, its a sin, its evil, how is that a Just God (even if true). God had to show why following Lucifer would lead to chaos and evil. So, we are a theatre for all to see, God created mankind, gave us freewill, and Satan stole Adam's birthright (Dominion over earth) by lying unto him. So, now the stage was set for all to see, the actions of human beings following Satan's ways will be allowed for 6000 years or so. Then Jesus rules on earth for 1000 years, and these two reigns over the earth will be what condemns Satan in the end by comparing the reigns. Men under Satan's rule were greedy, hateful, murderers, liars, perverts, thieves et al. Men under Christ will not desire to sin with Satan the tempter locked up, they will be like unto Christ in all of their ways, but alas God has to allow Satan out after the 1000 years to make sure no man who harbors rebellion & hatred towards God slips through the cracks, so those who never knew a time of Satan's rule must be tempted to try their hearts, then after those people follow Satan are destroyed by fire, (I think this earth will be HELL, Satan wins his prize, LOL, and God sets this earth and universe ablaze) God brings us into a New Heaven, and a New Earth, where we who love God will live forever. Amen. I think I just answered all four at once Edited April 30 by Revelation Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revelation Man Posted April 30 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 4,106 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 561 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/01/2016 Status: Online Share Posted April 30 On 4/28/2024 at 2:18 AM, ladypeartree said: How many times are we to forgive those that sin against us ? Why would God ask us to do what He is not willing to do ? Because we are Sinners who have been forgiven, God never sinned, he forgives us our sins but not Satan (Lucifer) and his 1/3 angels because they saw the Glory of God and rebelled. There is nothing they can ever learn from forgiveness, they SAW God in all his glory and perfection and still rebelled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlade Posted April 30 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 68 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 2,235 Content Per Day: 1.35 Reputation: 1,137 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/06/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/25/1961 Share Posted April 30 On 4/27/2024 at 7:40 PM, Marilyn C said: Good to think upon these questions as they help us appreciate God`s character and His purposes. So...Why didn`t God cast Lucifer/Satan into the lake of Fire - 1. After he had sinned in the angelic realm and was cast out. 2. After he had deluded Adam and Eve. 3. After Christ rose from the dead. 4. After the tribulation. Hy Marilyn. I heard this person (preacher) talking about hell. I don't believe it yet it does make one wonder. Well hell was made for Satan in other words there was no place as its written for him in heaven so hell made for Satan, this was God showing mercy to him. A place where nothing of God is there. We know hell will also be toss into the fire Reve 20. Your questions remind me why did God ask Adam "where you/who told you/did you eat of the tree I told you not to" Or "where's your brother why is his blood crying out to me from the ground" . Or when He came down talked to Abraham "the outcry for justice against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so blatant that I must go down and see if their wicked actions are as great as the outrage that has come to me, and if not, then I will know.” Well my point here is .. He's GOD didn't He already know :) Another story.. Jewish man didn't know God.. lived in Israel. Was in the USA having a really hard time.. God shows up where He GOD starts talking about His book and the Jewish man said what book? He said the lord laughed said " you don' t know about my book?". Sorry Marilyn.. I made it worse haha. Awesome questions though.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael37 Posted April 30 Group: Servant Followers: 21 Topic Count: 244 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 7,022 Content Per Day: 3.28 Reputation: 4,938 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/05/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/23/1954 Share Posted April 30 41 minutes ago, TheBlade said: Your questions remind me why did God ask Adam "where you/who told you/did you eat of the tree I told you not to" Or "where's your brother why is his blood crying out to me from the ground" . Or when He came down talked to Abraham "the outcry for justice against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so blatant that I must go down and see if their wicked actions are as great as the outrage that has come to me, and if not, then I will know.” Lawyers do this all the time, ask questions they know the answers to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted April 30 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 962 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,708 Content Per Day: 5.04 Reputation: 9,106 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted April 30 37 minutes ago, Michael37 said: Lawyers do this all the time, ask questions they know the answers to. They never ask of what they do not know to be the answer. God does the same thing does he not? Seems He asks many a rhetorical question. It's also kind of a Jewish mannerism to make a statement but to do so in question form. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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