Breaking with tradition

[JohnD]

This is intended to be a study about just how far the Church of God in Christ (the Body of Christ / Christianity) has strayed under the influence of the traditions of man.

Mark 7:13 (KJV)
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Mark 7:7 (KJV)
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Matthew 16:23 (KJV)
23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

From Matthew 16:23 we learn how easily man can slide into this satanic web, Peter having only a few verses prior been highly commended by the LORD Jesus for exactly the opposite:

Matthew 16:17 (KJV)
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

This study is not to slam anyone, but rather to point out error (tested / proved by the scriptures) to help resolve such error and restore truth and our pure relations / walk with Christ.

[JohnD]

An example of how easily misled mankind (human beings) are:

Hebrews 9:16–17 (KJV)
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

This innocuous passage prove that most Bibles and most Christian circles fail to even rightly divide the word of truth categorically:

2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV)
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

For tradition has placed the dividing line between Old and New Testaments between Malachi 4:6 and Matthew 1:1. Bibles, study Bibles, commentaries, Bible  software often contain bold title or even a title page between the two verses "NEW TESTAMENT" when clearly Hebrews 9:16-17 states the Old Testament did not end and the New Testament did not begin until the death of our LORD on the cross.

So what's the big deal?

It IS a big deal!

Everything prior to the death of the LORD Jesus on the cross is Old Testament and under the Law of Moses. Not understanding this or acknowledging this fact is a hole that legalism passes through to taint the theology of Grace.

Example:

Matthew 6:14–15 (KJV)
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

That is Old Covenant Old Testament law (Isaiah 58:5-6 / Exodus 23:21).

There are many such examples where legalism and the satanic mingling of the two covenants occurs by simply putting the dividing line between the two covenants in the wrong place.

And notice how universally misled the Church has been.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

New Covenant New Testament Grace is:

1. Christ died for all human sin (1 Timothy 4:10 / 1 John 2:2)

2. Faith alone in Christ Jesus alone activates this grace in our individual lives (John 3:16-18 Ephesians 2:8-10, John 6:29, John 16:27)

[Michael37]

28 minutes ago, JohnD said:

And notice how universally misled the Church has been.

The Wesley brothers sought to remedy the faults and failings they perceived.

[Neighbor]

1 hour ago, JohnD said:

And notice how universally misled the Church has been.

_________________________

A private interpretation?

Seems to me there has been no "the church" since as early as the reveal of Jesus to the seven churches as was given to John to share while at Patmos. Those churches were not universally misled. Already they each had their own quirks  and most except one had some serious rebuke coming.

[RdJ]

5 hours ago, JohnD said:

An example of how easily misled mankind (human beings) are:

Hebrews 9:16–17 (KJV)
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

This innocuous passage prove that most Bibles and most Christian circles fail to even rightly divide the word of truth categorically:

2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV)
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

For tradition has placed the dividing line between Old and New Testaments between Malachi 4:6 and Matthew 1:1. Bibles, study Bibles, commentaries, Bible  software often contain bold title or even a title page between the two verses "NEW TESTAMENT" when clearly Hebrews 9:16-17 states the Old Testament did not end and the New Testament did not begin until the death of our LORD on the cross.

So what's the big deal?

It IS a big deal!

Everything prior to the death of the LORD Jesus on the cross is Old Testament and under the Law of Moses. Not understanding this or acknowledging this fact is a hole that legalism passes through to taint the theology of Grace.

Example:

Matthew 6:14–15 (KJV)
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

That is Old Covenant Old Testament law (Isaiah 58:5-6 / Exodus 23:21).

There are many such examples where legalism and the satanic mingling of the two covenants occurs by simply putting the dividing line between the two covenants in the wrong place.

And notice how universally misled the Church has been.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

New Covenant New Testament Grace is:

1. Christ died for all human sin (1 Timothy 4:10 / 1 John 2:2)

2. Faith alone in Christ Jesus alone activates this grace in our individual lives (John 3:16-18 Ephesians 2:8-10, John 6:29, John 16:27)

John says if you hate your brother you are in darkness. The misleading is: go on and keep hating, don't repent and God will forgive you anyway. That's nonsense from Calvin who had people killed.

They will put you out of the synagogues; yes, the time is coming that whoever kills you will think that he offers God service. And these things they will do to you because they have not known the Father nor Me.
John 16:2‭-‬3 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/jhn.16.2-3.NKJV

 

Ian McCormack got saved just before he died. He had to forgive the men who refused to help him and let him die. Otherwise God could not forgive him.

 

If you can just hate the pharisees could have gotten 'saved' too.

 

10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. 11 For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another, 12 not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother’s righteous.

13 Do not marvel, my brethren, if the world hates you. 14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love [c]his brother abides in death. 15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

Edited May 23, 2024 by RdJ

[Indentured Servant]

9 hours ago, JohnD said:

This is intended to be a study about just how far the Church of God in Christ (the Body of Christ / Christianity) has strayed under the influence of the traditions of man.

Mark 7:13 (KJV)
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Mark 7:7 (KJV)
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Matthew 16:23 (KJV)
23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

From Matthew 16:23 we learn how easily man can slide into this satanic web, Peter having only a few verses prior been highly commended by the LORD Jesus for exactly the opposite:

Matthew 16:17 (KJV)
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

This study is not to slam anyone, but rather to point out error (tested / proved by the scriptures) to help resolve such error and restore truth and our pure relations / walk with Christ.

First century "love feasts" are now represented as a ritual ordinance called "communion."

Communion was a "food & drink" activity when people would openly express the manifestations of the Spirit given to them and scripture was discussed amongst them.

Western church format dictates that one person speaks, the others listen and react. "Gifts" are suppressed in the assemblies and only used sparingly outside the confines of an audit. 

Traditions of man prevent many manifestations of the Spirit to be silenced when there is a solitary person leading a "teaching" based on scripture. The Spirit used to lead the assemblies... Now, a program dictates how church assemblies can, or can't, interact.

Paul taught in great detail how we are supposed to meet. I've experienced no western church methodology that incorporates biblical instruction on how to organize the communing with one another and God in its assemblies.

[steve morrow]

THEOLOGY  ---  TRUTH  /  UNRIGHTEOUSNESS  ---  RIGHTEOUSNESS

 

ROMANS 1:18  for the wrath of  GOD  is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men ---WHO  HOLD  THE  TRUTH  IN  UNRIGHTEOUSNESS---

 

2 JOHN 1:9  --WHOSOEVER--  transgresseth and abideth not in the doctrine of  CHRIST  --HATH  NOT  GOD--  he that abideth in the doctrine of   --CHRIST--   he hath both the father and the son---

 

PROVERBS 4:19  THE  WAY  OF  THE  WICKED  IS  AS  DARKNESS  ---THEY  KNOW  NOT  AT  WHAT  THEY  STUMBLE---

 

LUKE 12:10  and  --WHOSOEVER--  shall speak a word against the   SON  OF  MAN   it shall be forgiven him  ---but unto him that blasphemeth against the holy spirit it shall not be forgiven---

 

ACTS 3:22  for moses truly said unto the fathers a prophet shall  THE  LORD  YOUR  GOD  raise up unto you of your brethren like unto me ---HIM  SHALL  YOU  HEAR  IN  ALL  THINGS  WHATSOEVER  HE  SHALL  SAY  UNTO  YOU---

--3:23--  AND  IT  SHALL  COME  TO  PASS  THAT  --EVERY  SOUL--  WHICH  WILL  NOT  HEAR  THAT  PROPHET  ---SHALL  BE  DESTROYED  FROM  AMONG  THE  PEOPLE---

 

JOHN 6:63  it is the spirit that quickeneth --THE  FLESH  PROFITETH  NOTHING-- the words that I speak unto you they are  --SPIRIT  AND  THEY  ARE  LIFE--

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST

[D. Adrien]

The fruit of the Spirit is the character of God, but because of the evil within man God has to reserve a time for judgement which of course includes banishment of all rebels to the very place that the god of this world will reside at eventually. God will grant every rebel their desire to rule themselves - which will not be in Paradise.

[timf]

If we use the yardstick of what was supposed to happen for each Christian (grow into Christ-likeness), it is difficult to see in most Christian practice any "Success";

Eph 4:11  And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12  For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13  Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Eph 4:14  That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Eph 4:15  But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
Eph 4:16  From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Some of the major mistakes we have made might be viewed as;

1. Administering Christianity as an organizational system. This tends to reduce Christianity to a mechanical series of event, programs, classes, rituals, and activities.

2. Presenting Christianity as agreement with doctrinal bullet points rather than the transformative power of trusting in Jesus.

3. Seeing Christianity as divorced from real life such as something only relevant for a couple of hours on Sunday mornings.

 

[Michael37]

21 minutes ago, timf said:

If we use the yardstick of what was supposed to happen for each Christian (grow into Christ-likeness), it is difficult to see in most Christian practice any "Success";

Eph 4:11  And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12  For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13  Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Eph 4:14  That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Eph 4:15  But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
Eph 4:16  From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Some of the major mistakes we have made might be viewed as;

1. Administering Christianity as an organizational system. This tends to reduce Christianity to a mechanical series of event, programs, classes, rituals, and activities.

2. Presenting Christianity as agreement with doctrinal bullet points rather than the transformative power of trusting in Jesus.

3. Seeing Christianity as divorced from real life such as something only relevant for a couple of hours on Sunday mornings.

 

Hi @timf 

How do you estimate Online Assemblies like this one fare in terms of Christian Life and Service?