Breaking with tradition

[JohnD]

Have we in the Romanized Church done any better?

We can't officially determine that the crucifixion took place on

Wednesday and that the tomb was discovered empty on Sunday

morning (giving some apparent legitimacy to Sunday worship)

remember Constantine the architect of Roman Catholicism was a

sun worshiper... some believe until his death.

[JohnD]

The Eucharist replaced Passover Seder

and the Protestants ran with it from that

platform.

I could go on and on, sadly.

It matters only what the BIBLE (not man)

teaches under the tutelage of the Holy Spirit who wrote it

(2 Peter 1:20-21) because God commissioned it as the standard by which

eve He must abide:

Psalm 138:2 (KJV)
2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

Let that sink in.

What is more sacred than the name of God?

[JohnD]

We in the Body Christian love to think we have the corner on all truth,

but along comes a cultist and turns most believers into a doctrinal pretzel

without having half tried. Because we incorporated the untruth of human traditions

into "the truth" and that makes the real truth indefensible. Because you are defending

untruth along with truth as if both were truth.

So cultists can come along and pick off ignorant sheep (not meaning derogatorily but rather 

as simply uninformed) with the way they point out the actual flaws in the unbiblical traditions

that the Organized Church teaches... casting doubt overall and opening them up to the even worse 

untruths of the cults.

[JohnD]

I am not into Church bashing, but when people are heading straight for

an eternal precipice it is the Christian thing to warn them.

Matthew 7:21–23 (KJV)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Scariest passage in the Bible IMHO... to arrive at the judgment only to find you've barked up the wrong tree.

[D. Adrien]

On 5/8/2025 at 2:13 PM, JohnD said:

I am not into Church bashing, but when people are heading straight for

an eternal precipice it is the Christian thing to warn them.

Matthew 7:21–23 (KJV)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Scariest passage in the Bible IMHO... to arrive at the judgment only to find you've barked up the wrong tree.

Those being lawless and living in iniquity will know long before that day! The spectacular and emotional appeal of being the center of attraction by their partying buddies - in whatever pleasures of the world they are choosing to indulge in, takes priority over the relationship with God above.

[com7fy8]

On 5/8/2025 at 2:13 PM, JohnD said:

I am not into Church bashing, but when people are heading straight for

an eternal precipice it is the Christian thing to warn them.

 

For each of the seven churches in Revelstion, it seems Jesus had the same things to say for all the members of each church. Because they did have unity - they could all have the same faults and/or good things that Jesus says to each church.

But for doing God's will - He has us helping one another to get real correction and to grow in Jesus. So, righteously isolating ourselves is not an option. We need to submit to how God brings us together and coordinates us in His own peace >

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

So, I would say we need to get with God so He is personally sharing with us and guiding our relating with one another. 

"for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)

 Jesus Himself has claimed in prayer how our Father does this with us > John 17.

So, our true unity is deeper than doctrine and practice.

"Test all things; hold fast what is good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21)

Make sure with God about what He knows is "good", and He will join us with others who are submitting to God in His peace.

[Anne2]

On 5/8/2025 at 11:06 AM, JohnD said:

The Eucharist replaced Passover Seder

The Lord's supper is the seder from Christ.

[NConly]

A couple things confuse me some say The Old Law was until the Pentecost.

I read here the Old Law was until the cross.

I read in Luke 16:16

16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

and Matt 4

11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

12 Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison, he departed into Galilee;

13 And leaving Nazareth, he came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is upon the sea coast, in the borders of Zabulon and Nephthalim:

14 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,

15 The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles;

16 The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.

17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

So it seems the Old Law was until John; earlier than Pentecost and Cross. 

 

[Anne2]

34 minutes ago, NConly said:

A couple things confuse me some say The Old Law was until the Pentecost.

I read here the Old Law was until the cross.

I read in Luke 16:16

16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

and Matt 4

11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

12 Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison, he departed into Galilee;

13 And leaving Nazareth, he came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is upon the sea coast, in the borders of Zabulon and Nephthalim:

14 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,

15 The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles;

16 The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.

17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

So it seems the Old Law was until John; earlier than Pentecost and Cross. 

 

About that. One gospel phrases this in an interesting manner.

Mt 11:13  For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

****Even NOW BEFORE I bring them into the land.....

We see in the law (lev. and deut.) prophetic utterances of wrath and cursing that will come upon Israel.

Do we see this as part and parcel of the law being fulfilled? If not, why not?

Before they even went into the land it was prophesied that they would break the covenant.

Deut. 31:19  Now therefore write ye this song for you, and teach it the children of Israel: put it in their mouths, that this song may be a witness for me against the children of Israel.
20  For when I shall have brought them into the land which I sware unto their fathers, that floweth with milk and honey; and they shall have eaten and filled themselves, and waxen fat; then will they turn unto other gods, and serve them, and provoke me, and break my covenant.
21  And it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are befallen them, that this song shall testify against them as a witness; for it shall not be forgotten out of the mouths of their seed: for I know their imagination which they go about, even now, before I have brought them into the land which I sware. {against: Heb. before } {go … : Heb. do }
22 ¶  Moses therefore wrote this song the same day, and taught it the children of Israel.

John's baptism, an escape from the wrath prophesied in the law.....

Mt 3:7  But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Lu 3:7  Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?u 21:23  But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
Joh 3:36  He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

When we read these Gospels do we read it as the wrath prophesied in the law was coming? And Christ was a way of escape?

Whan we read the prophets do we read the corresping prophesies coming to pass as spoken in the law?

Or do we tend to read the prophetic utterances in the prophets of the remnant that escapes it?

Two different groups there. Two different outcomes.

The apostles were the remnant that escaped it AT THAT TIME, with John's baptism of repentance, preparing the way  of escape in Christ.

Therefore the Apostles, especially the apostles to the Jew's, being first. They were in a race to save Jew's of that prophetic wrath foretold in the law to those under the law.

Gentiles are also spoken of in these utterances. But it comes after he done with Israel. Based upon how we treated Isreal....Do we see this as part and parcel of the law being fulfilled? If not,why not?
 

Edited 22 hours ago by Anne2

[NConly]

26 minutes ago, Anne2 said:

When we read these Gospels do we read it as the wrath prophesied in the law was coming? And Christ was a way of escape?

Whan we read the prophets do we read the corresping prophesies coming to pass as spoken in the law?

Or do we tend to read the prophetic utterances in the prophets of the remnant that escapes it?

Two different groups there. Two different outcomes.

Speaking for myself when I read the gospels I see two groups

group 1 is made up of Jews and Gentiles that accept the one sent by God the Father

Jesus the Christ.

group 2 is as in John 10

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. This other group is Israel and Juda which God will ake into one nation and cause them to believe on  Jesus.

The other sheep Israel and Juda did not accept Jesus as savior however in Jere 30 

3 For, lo, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the LORD: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.

7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.

8 For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him: