Does God ONLY care about how much money you put in the collection plate?

[ExactionForce10]

3 minutes ago, Marathoner said:

You didn't answer the question. 

Yes I did.

[Retrobyter]

2 hours ago, ExactionForce10 said:

Dude, once anyone starts reading from the old covenant to me, they become suspect. Why? Because that is NOT gospel, that is not the gospel of Lord Jesus where all the glory is now.  Those statements are backed up by gospel.

Shalom, ExactionForce10.

Oh, really? Have you ever done a study on what constitutes the "gospel?" Where did the word come from? What does it mean? Do you think that Paul preached anything different than did the Messiah Yeeshuwa` (Christ Jesus)? If you do or you don't know, then you've got a few lessons to learn.

First, "gospel" is a word that comes down from Old English, "godspell," which means "good news." ("That's "god" as in "good," not as in "God," although He certainly is "good!") In the King James Version, the word is found in the following verses:

[Let me explain my coloring technique: I use GREEN for narration, RED for the words of the Messiah, ROYAL PURPLE for the words of YHWH God the Father, and BLUE for everyone else. If there is a quotation that would be in the same color, I add italics.]

Mat 4:23 KJV - 23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.
Mat 9:35 KJV - 35 And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.
Mat 11:5 KJV - 5 "The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them."
Mat 24:14 KJV - 14 "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."
Mat 26:13 KJV - 13 "Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached in the whole world, [there] shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her."
Mar 1:1, 14-15 KJV - 1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; ... 14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15 And saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand (not "present" but "within one's grasp"): repent ye, and believe the gospel."
Mar 13:10 KJV - 10 "And the gospel must first be published among all nations."
Mar 14:9 KJV - 9 "Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached throughout the whole world, [this] also that she hath done shall be spoken of for a memorial of her."
Mar 16:15 KJV - 15 And he said unto them, "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature."
Luk 4:18 KJV - 18 "The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,"
Luk 7:22 KJV - 22 Then Jesus answering said unto them, "Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached."
Luk 9:6 KJV - 6 And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where.
Luk 20:1 KJV - 1 And it came to pass, [that] on one of those days, as he taught the people in the temple, and preached the gospel, the chief priests and the scribes came upon [him] with the elders,
Act 8:25 KJV - 25 And they, when they had testified and preached the word of the Lord, returned to Jerusalem, and preached the gospel in many villages of the Samaritans.
Act 14:7, 21 KJV - 7 And there they preached the gospel. ... 21 And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and [to] Iconium, and Antioch,
Act 15:7 KJV - 7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, "Men [and] brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe."
Act 16:10 KJV - 10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.
Act 20:24 KJV - 24 "But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God."
Rom 1:1, 9, 15-16 KJV - 1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called [to be] an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, ... 9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers; ... 15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom 2:16 KJV - 16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Rom 10:15-16 KJV - 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!" {Isa. 52:7} 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, "Lord, who hath believed our report?" {Isa. 53:1}
Rom 11:28 KJV - 28 As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, [they are] beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Rom 15:16, 19-20, 29 KJV - 16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. ... 19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ. 20 Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation: ... 29 And I am sure that, when I come unto you, I shall come in the fulness of the blessing of the gospel of Christ.
Rom 16:25 KJV - 25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
1Co 1:17 KJV - 17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
1Co 4:15 KJV - 15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet [have ye] not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
1Co 9:12, 14, 16-18 KJV - 12 If others be partakers of [this] power over you, [are] not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ. ... 14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel. ... 16 For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel! 17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation [of the gospel] is committed unto me. 18 What is my reward then? [Verily] that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.
1Co 15:1 KJV - 1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2Co 2:12 KJV - 12 Furthermore, when I came to Troas to [preach] Christ's gospel, and a door was opened unto me of the Lord,
2Co 4:3-4 KJV - 3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
2Co 8:18 KJV - 18 And we have sent with him the brother, whose praise [is] in the gospel throughout all the churches;
2Co 9:13 KJV - 13 Whiles by the experiment of this ministration they glorify God for your professed subjection unto the gospel of Christ, and for [your] liberal distribution unto them, and unto all [men];
2Co 10:14, 16 KJV - 14 For we stretch not ourselves beyond [our measure], as though we reached not unto you: for we are come as far as to you also in [preaching] the gospel of Christ: ... 16 To preach the gospel in the [regions] beyond you, [and] not to boast in another man's line of things made ready to our hand.
2Co 11:4 KJV - 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him].
2Co 11:7 KJV - 7 Have I committed an offence in abasing myself that ye might be exalted, because I have preached to you the gospel of God freely?
Gal 1:6-9, 11 KJV - 6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. ... 11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
Gal 2:2, 5, 7, 14 KJV - 2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain. ... 5 To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you. ... 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as [the gospel] of the circumcision [was] unto Peter; ... 14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before [them] all, "If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?"
Gal 3:8 KJV - 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], "In thee shall all nations be blessed." (Genesis 12:1)
Gal 4:13 KJV - 13 Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first.
Eph 1:13 KJV - 13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 3:6 KJV - 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
Eph 6:15, 19 KJV - 15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; ... 19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery (secret) of the gospel,
Phl 1:5, 7, 12, 17, 27 KJV - 5 For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now; ... 7 Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart; inasmuch as both in my bonds, and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel, ye all are partakers of my grace. ... 12 But I would ye should understand, brethren, that the things [which happened] unto me have fallen out rather unto the furtherance of the gospel; ... 17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. ... 27 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;
Phl 2:22 KJV - 22 But ye know the proof of him, that, as a son with the father, he hath served with me in the gospel.
Phl 4:3, 15 KJV - 3 And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and [with] other my fellowlabourers, whose names [are] in the book of life. ... 15 Now ye Philippians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated with me as concerning giving and receiving, but ye only.
Col 1:5, 23 KJV - 5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; ... 23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and [be] not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, [and] which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
1Th 1:5 KJV - 5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.
1Th 2:2, 4, 8-9 KJV - 2 But even after that we had suffered before, and were shamefully entreated, as ye know, at Philippi, we were bold in our God to speak unto you the gospel of God with much contention. ... 4 But as we were allowed of God to be put in trust with the gospel, even so we speak; not as pleasing men, but God, which trieth our hearts. ... 8 So being affectionately desirous of you, we were willing to have imparted unto you, not the gospel of God only, but also our own souls, because ye were dear unto us. 9 For ye remember, brethren, our labour and travail: for labouring night and day, because we would not be chargeable unto any of you, we preached unto you the gospel of God.
1Th 3:2 KJV - 2 And sent Timotheus, our brother, and minister of God, and our fellowlabourer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you, and to comfort you concerning your faith:
2Th 1:8 KJV - 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 2:14 KJV - 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Ti 1:11 KJV - 11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
2Ti 1:8, 10 KJV - 8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; ... 10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
2Ti 2:8 KJV - 8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
Phm 1:13 KJV - 13 Whom I would have retained with me, that in thy stead he might have ministered unto me in the bonds of the gospel:
Heb 4:2 KJV - 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard [it].
1Pe 1:12, 25 KJV - 12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into. ... 25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
1Pe 4:6, 17 KJV - 6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. ... 17 For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God?
Rev 14:6 KJV - 6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

That's every occurrence of the term in the NT. Notice several things:

First, Yeeshuwa` preached the gospel SECOND! Yochanan the Immerser (John the Baptist) preached it before He did because Yochanan was Yeeshuwa`s FORERUNNER, His HERALD, the one who would come to a town and ANNOUNCE the coming of the KING!

Second, Yeeshuwa` preached the "gospel of the Kingdom!" And, Paul said several times that His gospel was "the gospel of Christ (or of the Messiah)!" 

Third, notice that the "gospel" wasn't explained at the first; there was no need to explain! The listeners were just told to BELIEVE it!

Fourth, the "gospel" is QUOTED from the Old Testament! That you don't know this, worries me! Why haven't you been properly instructed as to what the "gospel" is?!!!

Here it is again:

Rom 10:15-16 KJV - 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!" {Isa. 52:7} 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, "Lord, who hath believed our report?" {Isa. 53:1}

Let's look at the "Old Testament":

Isaiah 52:4-15 (KJV)

4 For thus saith the Lord GOD,

"My people went down aforetime into Egypt to sojourn there; and the Assyrian oppressed them without cause. 5 Now therefore, what have I here," saith the LORD, "that my people is taken away for nought? they that rule over them make them to howl," saith the LORD; "and my name continually every day [is] blasphemed.

6 "Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore [they shall know] in that day that I [am] he that doth speak: behold, [it is] I! 7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, 'THY GOD REIGNETH!'"

8 Thy watchmen shall lift up the voice; with the voice together shall they sing: for they shall see eye to eye, when the LORD shall bring again Zion. 9 Break forth into joy, sing together, ye waste places of Jerusalem: for the LORD hath comforted his people, he hath redeemed Jerusalem. 10 The LORD hath made bare "his holy arm" in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see "the salvation of our God" (Hebrew: יְשׁוּעַת אֱלֹהֵינוּ = Yshuw`aah 'Eloheeynuw = "Yeeshuwa` of-our-God")! 11 Depart ye, depart ye, go ye out from thence, touch no unclean [thing]; go ye out of the midst of her; be ye clean, that bear the vessels of the LORD. 12 For ye shall not go out with haste, nor go by flight: for the LORD will go before you; and the God of Israel [will be] your rereward.

13 "Behold, 'my servant' shall deal prudently, he shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high. 14 As many were astonied at thee; HIS VISAGE WAS SO MARRED MORE THAN ANY MAN, AND HIS FORM MORE THAN THE SONS OF MEN: 15 So shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him: for [that] which had not been told them shall they see; and [that] which they had not heard shall they consider."

2 hours ago, ExactionForce10 said:

2 Cor 14 18  14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

You're misreading this passage of Scripture; so, you're attacking the wrong thing. It's not the Old Covenant (Old Testament) that you should be attacking, but the PEOPLE who have the veil over their hearts! Remember: Paul also said,

Romans 7:7-12 (KJV)

7 What shall we say then? [Is] the law (Torah) sin? God forbid! Nay, I had not known sin, but BY the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said,

"Thou shalt not covet." (Exodus 20:17)

8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence (strong sexual desire). For without (outside) the law sin [was] dead. 9 For I was alive without (outside) the law once [as a child]: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. 10 And the commandment, which [was ordained] to life, I found [to be] unto death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew [me]. 12 Wherefore THE LAW [IS] HOLY, AND THE COMMANDMENT HOLY, AND JUST, AND GOOD.

And, then, to further correct, one should NOT be attacking the people, but attacking the PROBLEM of "having a veil over their heart!"

Paul also said,

Romans 11:11-32 (KJV)

11 I say then, Have they [the children of Israel] stumbled that they should fall (permanently)? GOD FORBID!: but [rather] THROUGH their (TEMPORARY) fall salvation [is come] unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12 Now if the (temporary) fall of them [be] the riches of the world, and the (temporary) diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, (I magnify mine office): 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation [them which are] my flesh, and might save some of them. 15 For if the casting away of them [be] the reconciling of the world, what [shall] the receiving [of them be], but LIFE FROM THE DEAD? (RESURRECTION!) 16 For if the firstfruit [be] holy, the lump [is] also [holy]: and if the root [be] holy, so [are] the branches. 17 And if SOME of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in AMONG them, and WITH them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches! But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then,

"The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in."

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but FEAR!: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] LEST HE ALSO SPARE NOT THEE! 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which (temporarily) fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, IF thou continue in [his] goodness: OTHERWISE THOU ALSO SHALT BE CUT OFF! 23 And they also, IF they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for GOD IS ABLE TO GRAFF THEM IN AGAIN! 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: HOW MUCH MORE SHALL THESE, WHICH BE THE NATURAL [BRANCHES], BE GRAFFED INTO THEIR OWN OLIVE TREE? 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness IN PART is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26 And SO ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED: as it is written,

"There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins." (Isaiah 59:20-21; 27:9 (LXX); Jer. 31:33,34)

28 As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes: BUT as touching the election, [they are] beloved for the fathers' sakes. 29 For the gifts and calling of God [are] without repentance! (I.e., God does not renege on His gifts and calling!) 30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31 Even so have these also now not believed, that THROUGH YOUR MERCY THEY (the children of Israel, particularly the Jews) ALSO MAY OBTAIN MERCY. 32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

THIS should be our attitude toward the children of Israel, particularly the Jews (the children of Judah). They are to be TAUGHT that Yeeshuwa` ("Jesus") is THEIR MESSIAH! GOD'S ANOINTED ONE TO BE THEIR KING!

Keep in mind what Gabriel told Mary before Yeeshuwa` was even conceived:

Luke 1:30-33 (KJV)

30 And the angel said unto her,

"Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end."

2 hours ago, ExactionForce10 said:

Which actually brings to mind another problem I had with the prosperity gospel church that I have been referring to here, that is, they spend more time reading from the old covenant than from the gospels of Christ. I suppose that's because the old covenant is the one that talks about tithing being "law" and all that. Since that is all they care about, that is all they really want to talk about, so they read from the old covenant a lot. By contrast, they only seem interested in that which is material, meaning money and the things money can buy. 

I've noticed that a lot of the posts here are full of quotes from the old covenant. You will notice that any Bible quotes I posted in here are from the gospels. 

I'm no fan of "prosperity gospel" churches, but you're right that tithing (a 10%) of one's profits and goods, was mostly found in the TANAKH (Torah, Navi'iym [prophets], and Ketuviym [writings], the Old Testament); HOWEVER, I don't know that you'd want to go there, for in the B'rit Chadashah (the New Covenant or "Testament"), ALL of one's goods and money belongs to God! We are only His STEWARDS of that money and goods that He has LOANED us!

Ten percent of our earnings in a week is a good place for most to START; but, as we grow in the Messiah (in Christ), we should learn to be more generous with our earnings to Him, because "we can't outgive God!" He blesses the cheerful giver!

The goals are wrong, however, in the "prosperity gospel" teachings. That God blesses us with wealth, as He did with Abraham, is INCIDENTAL! Our MAIN goal is to DO GOD'S BIDDING with what He has blessed us!

[Neighbor]

What's a collection plate?

[RdJ]

16 hours ago, ExactionForce10 said:

Dude, once anyone starts reading from the old covenant to me, they become suspect. Why? Because that is NOT gospel, that is not the gospel of Lord Jesus where all the glory is now.  Those statements are backed up by gospel.

2 Cor 14 18  14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

Which actually brings to mind another problem I had with the prosperity gospel church that I have been referring to here, that is, they spend more time reading from the old covenant than from the gospels of Christ. I suppose that's because the old covenant is the one that talks about tithing being "law" and all that. Since that is all they care about, that is all they really want to talk about, so they read from the old covenant a lot. By contrast, they only seem interested in that which is material, meaning money and the things money can buy. 

I've noticed that a lot of the posts here are full of quotes from the old covenant. You will notice that any Bible quotes I posted in here are from the gospels. 

But the whole idea of giving is based on the O.T. My brother is a translator and ages ago he had to translate a book from Morris Cerullo about money and I wanted to make some money so we could help him translate that book. My goodness. I gave up after 3 pages. Way too complicated.

I saw on internet that a group of people got him on their heart to pray for, because one saw him in a dream in a prison of money and they prayed and he said: thanks guys! This could have meant my death. Btw Michael Brown warned Benny Hinn.

But he had a good point from the O.T. The people didn't pay anymore and the workers in the temple quit and went home to work on the land. I saw an article lately of a Dutch pastor. I have been to that church. It's a good church. He just said if you don't give then simply things can't be done. So and so needs help and prayer? Too bad. I agree with him. In Holland if you even dare preach about money people get mad. If a pastor has the nerve to say he would appreciate it to have an income (2000 euro for full time ministering to everyone and giving Bible schools etc) he has to shut up. So what you have now is some big churches with a paid pastor that flourish and the rest is like: bye bye my family comes first. I went to a church here. Great pastor. Looked it up on youtube. Went there. Awesome. Great teaching. Prayer afterwards!! Wow. And I heard him speak once. Next week sister so and so babbled about mother's day. Next week a guy talked about sex. He almost never preached. One woman whined that they started 5 mins too late. Guy said irritated: Hold your horses. We all work for free here. That's what you get when you're stingy. Or they simply quit and say hey why don't you go to that other church.

[Neighbor]

As I recall tithes over a three year rolling average would add up to 23.333 percent per year. Tithing did not prevent gifts separate from tithes.

Does God care what the heart of a believer and follower of my Lord and savior does financially as well as physically? Yes I  an certain God not only cares He blesses those that  have a heart to share of their own assets, doing so even sacrificially.

Do I resent churches with collection plates? No.

Do I resent any using  other than cash to receive contributions? No.

Do I resent mega size church bodies? No;  if I did I suppose I would resent many of the church bodies  described within the Bible.

Why would I consider making a goal in my own life the resentment  of church  donations made by others?  I can't imagine there being any good purpose  in it myself. It seems a pointless exercise.

God knows the heart. He blesses as He is also blessed, that  I believe does include the trust on God exercised in giving of what is utmost in the hearts of many  on earth, that being money.  

To not hold tightfisted onto money and instead share with those of the church body in many ways seems  pretty cool to me. I do think it is something one does quietly, without fanfare.

Actually I think  that over the many decades now I have seen that there is more a problem with receiving than with giving. So many in  need within the local church body just will not  share of their need that if known can be  overcome by the body of Christ at the local church.

Now God knows the needs, He has the provisions to meet the real needs too. Evidently some of  "us" have trouble with  what, pride? I don't know,  but it is like pulling teeth sometimes to find the real serious needs of some within the local body. 

One church I was associated with for over 20 years had a substantial benevolent fund available to be at the ready for church body needs. Yet  even when some faced serious issues they would be  most hesitant to let anyone know. I do think it is harder to be a gracious receiver than a generous giver.  

One way to get help out though was through a team of widows and orphans work day parties. Often it was to fix a screen door or mow a lawn, but other times it was replace a septic system, put in handicap facilities and ramps, or even air conditioners. Volunteers were young and old of the church, often led by trades people with expertise in their work field. Was always a blast to have those work days! A sweaty blast but none the less a grand time.

Praise God for the opportunities that come to his own to  share with others of the local church body and to receive  through the body  of Christ to His glory.

Such awesome memories come to mind this morning. Thanks for the thread that triggered such remembrences.

 

[RdJ]

19 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

Actually I think  that over the many decades now I have seen that there is more a problem with receiving than with giving. So many in  need within the local church body just will not  share of their need that if known can be  overcome by the body of Christ at the local church.

Now God knows the needs, He has the provisions to meet the real needs too. Evidently some of  "us" have trouble with  what, pride? I don't know,  but it is like pulling teeth sometimes to find the real serious needs of some within the local body. 

One church I was associated for over 20 years with had a substantial benevolent fund available to be at the ready for church body needs. Yet  even when some faced serious issues they would be  most hesitant to let anyone know. I do think it is harder to be a gracious receiver than a generous giver.  

 

They do that at my office. People give money to a fund for those who need it. I had debts but I have a flat and I don't starve. That fund is for the poor. So not for me. Then they sent an email to tell ppl that they had that fund. You didnt get money but an interest free loan. So hmm if you insist. Okay then. Turned out that they helped for instance a woman who had a big house and was like hey lets renew this nonsense for fun for a few thousand. Oh golly now I don't have a lot of money anymore. People from the fund! Help me! And they did. Unbelievable. I thought it was for the poor.

Once on christian forums in a group for singles I just mentioned that I had nothing to eat. I was just venting. I helped a young guy via pm's cause he needed some dating advice. He was long distance dating girls from the Phillipines who tried to pull him into filth and he had already given one 10.000. NOOOOOOOO! He read that I had nothing to eat and wanted to give me 25.000 dollar. NOOOOOO! Keep it. Don't give that away! I just had a too expensive holiday for the kids so now I eat little 3 months to pay the debts back. There's nothing the matter. He was too good for this world.

 

[Neighbor]

1 hour ago, Neighbor said:

What's a collection plate?

I ask , mostly as a joke, but also because so many churches have no such thing as a collection as a part of their worship services. None!

Individuals have to decide on their  own if they are or may be led to contribute to the operation of the local church body.

 I attend one in the mountains of Appalachia USA that has no  official membership at all, no rooster of members. I guess there are about 250 of us at any given time attending. Just a guess, as there is  no tally. Want to worship there fine, but if not okay,  not an issue  come when led if led, by the Holy Spirit. And God bless one and all y'all.

[RdJ]

I have seen that at one church. They also have no info on how you can give.

[Michael37]

46 minutes ago, RdJ said:

I have seen that at one church. They also have no info on how you can give.

Handling cash was an inconvenience when I was Treasurer. Providing supplies of attractive offering envelopes and keeping track of cheques and cash offerings so that tax refund receipts could be issued each financial year was time consuming.

Banks and businesses no longer accept cheques here, and cash use is becoming more limited. 

Church websites will have details for making online payments, and Eftpos cards are used in house.

[RdJ]

1 hour ago, Michael37 said:

Handling cash was an inconvenience when I was Treasurer. Providing supplies of attractive offering envelopes and keeping track of cheques and cash offerings so that tax refund receipts could be issued each financial year was time consuming.

Banks and businesses no longer accept cheques here, and cash use is becoming more limited. 

Church websites will have details for making online payments, and Eftpos cards are used in house.

Yes normally you get a thing on a screen and then you can do it online. This church, I just looked at their website, there is no such thing, no bank account number, nothing. Only this:

Sponsoring
Charity plays an important role in the Christian faith. Because we want to teach this to the children, we save for 2 poor children abroad. Our savings go to clothing, food and school fees/materials. Every Sunday we therefore visit the lower and upper grades with the piggy bank. We also want to keep the children informed about the developments of these children, if any. They are discussed a few times a year, so that the children are reminded of who they are saving for.

 

No financial compensation is given since 2017.

Financial year report: Negative. 3,60 came in via app. No money asked during the service.

 

I have the idea that those elders pay it all. They also have a regular job.

 

 

Edited June 16, 2024 by RdJ