When did the woman flee into the wilderness?

[tatwo]

8 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

9 hours ago, tatwo said:

Really...so the woman who flees into the wilderness in Revelation 12...is the Body of Christ...the saints...and it is from "her" that the Lord Yahshua is physically birthed forth...is that what you are suggesting here Steward?

Tatwo...:)

The imagery is twofold, the woman represents the Holy Spirit, and “her seed”are those who are “born of”the Holy Spirit.

Jesus the “man child”was conceived by the Holy Spirit (mother of the Living) Those saints who have the Holy Spirit in them are of the “woman’s seed.”

The seed is Spiritual, not natural.

You did not answer my question Steward...if I were to take your response as your answer...it makes no sense...How does the woman who flees into the wilderness...you referred to her as the saints...physically give birth to the Lord Yahshua Christ?

Just stop a minute...realize that maybe the Lord Yahshua is trying to connect with you...some of your written statements in this specific case are incoherent.

It is not the "woman's seed" she merely carries the "seed"...the obedient Sons who have the Holy Spirit are the seed of promise...the seed of their eternal Father. She is merely an incubator...a carrier of His seed which is exactly what Israel was.

Tatwo...:)

[abcdef]

On 6/17/2024 at 2:18 PM, Stewardofthemystery said:

In Revelation 12 we see a woman who gives birth to a man child, and the man child is caught up to God and to His throne, this of course of speaking of the Son of man Jesus Christ ascending up to the Father.  After this Satan and his evil angels are cast out of heaven, in verse 6 we see the woman fleeing from the face of the Dragon.  This woman, I will call Wisdom. The woman seen here represents those who are born of the “woman's seed” as shown in Genesis 3:15; as it is the Serpent's seed who persecutes and kills the “woman's seed” as Cain killed his righteous brother Abel.  This “woman's seed” also represents those who are born from above by the Holy Spirit, as Paul showed in the allegory in Galatians 4:26 that Jerusalem above is “the mother” of us all who are born of the Holy Spirit.  

 

To confirm the timing of “when” those who are of the woman's seed flee into the wilderness, we need to go to prophecy.  After the man child Jesus was crucified, the prophecy came to pass that they would “smite the shepherd” and the flock would be scattered in Zech 13:7. ..7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the Lord of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.

 

But God also, by the OT prophets had warned the children of Israel, that if they would not hearken to the voice of the Lord, nor keep His commandments that he would scatter them to the nations of the world, and God would sell them into the hands of their enemies.  

 

So not only were the early Christians forecast to be persecuted and killed, but also the Jews who had rejected Jesus as the Messiah. The woman fleeing into the wilderness is a sign of the saints fleeing into the Gentile Nations, where the woman was to be nourished during this time, times, and a half.  The start point of this fleeing happened after Jesus ascended and is also confirmed here in Luke 21:12-24. ..12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.19 In your patience possess ye your souls.

20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that

give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. (the Jews) 24 And they(the Jews) shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. (compare to Dan 11:33)

 

 

This time period from the AOD (destruction of Jerusalem in 70 ad) to "the fullness of the Gentiles" is symbolically shown as 1,260 days in scripture, but it is not to be taken at face value.  This time period is the first tribulation period, which is to the Jews as Paul said in Romans 2:9, and was forecast to last “many days” per Daniel 11:33….33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they (saints/Jews) shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days”. (compare to Luke 21:24)

 

The end of this time period is confirmed in many places in scripture, and shall be marked by the signs in the Sun, moon, and stars, and by the 6th seal events.  Then will begin the Great tribulation and the wrath of God upon the whole world.  But during this period in the wilderness, where the woman is fleeing from the Dragon trying to “carry her away”; during this time many of the saints were prophesied to be overcome.  Many would be “carried away” and led astray by many false teachers, the doctrines of men, and by taking up the beliefs, traditions, and the false idols of the Nations.  Basically, what happened to Israel in the OT has also happened to many Christians.  They, like Israel of old, would also play the Harlot with the ways of the world, and they would fall away from the faith.

 

That is why we see in Revelation 17:3 a woman who is being carried by the scarlet colored beast in the wilderness.   This woman's name I will call Wickedness, and she sits upon the heads of the beast.    

Rev 12, covers from 63 BC, until 1967.

---

Rev 12:1-6

63 BC, The Roman Dragon invades Israel.

1 AD, Herod waits to kill Jesus

33 AD, Jesus is caught up to heaven.

70 AD The woman flees.

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Rev 12:7-17

33 AD, The war in heaven after Jesus is caught up.

33 AD, The day of Pentecost when the kingdom and salvation comes. Satan is thrown down.

70 AD, The woman flees into the wilderness with Rome in pursuit

1967, The woman returns to Jerusalem.

------

The 3 1/2 times is symbolic of 1900 years, as history proves.

As long as some look at it as literal, they will never understand the timeline.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

12 hours ago, tatwo said:

Good question...

She is separated from Christ because she is a prostitute who has not been faithful to God...she is the "church"...the "Man-Child" is the Body of Christ who has been "called" out of her...do you understand "apostasy?"

Anyone remaining in the "woman" is "apostate"...in the wilderness she does not do well Steward...she continues her downward descent from "a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars" which means that at one time she was arrayed in splendor and the glory of God.

The last time we see this woman...she is upon this beast and she looks and acts just like him. Think about what I am saying for a moment.

There is more that is not said in all of this...perhaps we can get to it?

Tatwo...:)

You are getting the “woman’s seed”mixed up with the Harlot and the “serpents seed.”  The harlot is enjoined to the serpent by having “the same spirit.”  Just as the woman is enjoined to Christ by “the Holy Spirit.”

Those who are of the woman’s seed have “the Holy Spirit”, therefore they are not separated from God as you suggest, they are “enjoined by the Holy Spirit”even though they are still on this earth suffering persecution from the Dragon.

There is no resurrection of “the body of”Christ until it’s “fullness”, which at the “last trump” at “the last day”.

Ephesians 4:1-13

King James Version

4 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,

2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;

3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

4 There is ((one body, and one Spirit,)) even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, “and in you all.”

7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of “the body of”Christ:

13 “Till we all come”in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto “a perfect man”, unto “the measure of the stature of the fulness” of Christ:

Hebrews 11:40

God having provided some better thing for us, that “they without us should not be made perfect.”

 

 

 

 

Edited June 27, 2024 by Stewardofthemystery

[Stewardofthemystery]

9 hours ago, tatwo said:

The woman is "separated" from her son...by God...That woman from Revelation 12 is the harlot...a prostitute...she is unfaithful and because of that...she is sent away...just like Israel. 

Just look at the "woman sent to the wilderness" when she is next seen in Revelation 17...yes that's her...what other "woman is in the wilderness here in Revelation...and now she is sitting upon the beast and looks just like it.

The wilderness experience went for her much like it did for Israel...it ended in rebellion and disobedience...which is another word for being "apathetic"...and as a result...both this woman and Israel were and will be...separated from the Lord...this is apostasy.

Tatwo...:)

 

Again you are confusing the woman who gave birth to the man child to the Harlot.  That is like calling Light darkness.

Those who are of the “woman’s seed”are those who born of God’s “Holy Spirit.” Jesus was not born of a Harlot, that is foolishness.

Even though we ( the elect saints) are on earth, we are not “separated” from God or Christ as you suggest, we are “One with Him by the Holy Spirit.”

1 Corinthians 12:13

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

 

John 17:20-23

King James Version

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

21 That they all may ((be one;))as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may ((be one in us:))that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

23 ((I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one;)) and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.”

 

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

9 hours ago, tatwo said:

You did not answer my question Steward...if I were to take your response as your answer...it makes no sense...How does the woman who flees into the wilderness...you referred to her as the saints...physically give birth to the Lord Yahshua Christ?

Just stop a minute...realize that maybe the Lord Yahshua is trying to connect with you...some of your written statements in this specific case are incoherent.

It is not the "woman's seed" she merely carries the "seed"...the obedient Sons who have the Holy Spirit are the seed of promise...the seed of their eternal Father. She is merely an incubator...a carrier of His seed which is exactly what Israel was.

Tatwo...:)

I did answer the question, you just do not understand my speech.  If God is the Father figure, and His Word is the Son figure, then who is the woman figure who “gives birth” to the Son?

The answer is….The Holy Spirit.   How was Jesus conceived?

Matthew 1:20

But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is ((of the Holy Ghost))

 

How are the saints “born of God?”

 

We must be born again of “the Holy Spirit”

John 3:5

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of ((the Spirit,)) he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
 

This is why the Dragon and those who are of the Serpents seed are shown persecuting the woman’s seed….

 

Galatians 4:29

But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was ((born after the Spirit,))even so it is now.

[Stewardofthemystery]

8 hours ago, abcdef said:

As long as some look at it as literal, they will never understand the timeline.

 

That is the problem with both the preterist and futurist interpretations, in that they can only see that time of 1,260 days as being literal, taking it “naturally”at face value.  So they then try to force all end time prophecy into a small window of time, be it past, or yet future.

But they being yet carnally minded will also not understand the symbolic imagery shown in the Revelation because it is only to be “spiritually discerned” by the Holy Spirit.

In not understanding the “spiritual things” of God, they then corrupt themselves by their own carnal understanding because they only know what they know “naturally”.

Jude 1:10

But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they “know naturally”, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

 

[luigi]

The Lord provides numerous correlations of His Word throughout the bible. We are to use these correlations in scriptures so that we may correctly interpret what is being described. In Micah 5 we see the same travailing woman that is in Revelation 12. In Micah 5:3, we see described the Lord Jesus, having given up His days on earth, until she which is travailing (during the great tribulation period-1,260 days) brings forth. Recognizing these correlations as described thereby indicates the male child born in Revelation 12:5 and 12:17 are the saints following the great tribulation of 1,260 days. It seems to me that they who seeing this correlation of scriptures, but continue to advocate the male child in Revelation 12 being Jesus, prefer darkness over light.

Micah 5:3 Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.

[tatwo]

Steward...consider your own words as I quote them...perhaps you can clear this up some. Without accountability friend...you are reed swaying in the wind. 

In the very first sentence of your OP Steward you write…

On 6/17/2024 at 2:18 PM, Stewardofthemystery said:

In Revelation 12 we see a woman who gives birth to a man child, and the man child is caught up to God and to His throne, this of course of speaking of the Son of man Jesus Christ ascending up to the Father.

You “said”…the woman in Revelation 12 is the “mother – gives birth to” the “Son of Man” thereby specifying Jesus Christ. That is none other than “Mary”…”Mary”…as you have stated is the “woman and mother” of the Lord Yahshua in His flesh…impregnated with the spiritual “seed of the Father” which she…Mary bore. So you have the woman of Revelation 12 as being Mary the mother of Yahshua.

You are saying…the woman in Revelation 12 is “Mary”…and the “Man Child” she bore is “Jesus Christ.”

On 6/17/2024 at 2:18 PM, Stewardofthemystery said:

This “woman's seed” also represents those who are born from above by the Holy Spirit

So…continuing on with your definition of the “woman” of Revelation 12 from your first sentence…(we are still reading from the first paragraph of your OP)…who you openly state is “Mary” the mother of the “Son of Man” Jesus Christ.

Here you are saying that “this woman’s seed” (Revelation 12) the woman being “Mary”…this blessed “human woman”…is also the “womb” that brings forth the spiritual “seed” known as the “Body of Christ – Sons of God” and its many members…as it is these alone…who constitute those who are “born from above by the Holy Spirit.”

That’s interesting…because at the point of “Mary” bringing forth the Lord Jesus Christ as an infant in Bethlehem…He was the “only one” in creation at that time who was born from above by the Holy Spirit. Mary physically gave birth to the only “Lamb of God”…the “first born” of many brethren…He is the “only begotten from the Father.”

Tatwo...:)

[tatwo]

23 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

So the woman who flees into the wilderness are the saints who are born from Jerusalem above, “the mother”of all those who are born of God’s Holy Spirit.

I will reiterate that the “woman you have already defined as Mary” whom you say is the woman in Revelation 12…who you also said is the “woman/mother” of all those who “are born from above of the Holy Spirit”…and you are now saying that…she “this woman” is the “saints that flee into the wilderness” all in reference to this one woman from Revelation 12.

So you have said that the woman from revelation 12 is “Mary” the human mother of the flesh of the Lord Jesus Christ…additionally this same woman the mother of our Lord…“Mary” as you have put it…brought forth those who are born from above of the Holy Spirit…and here you say…that it is “Mary” who flees into the wilderness and that somehow she is no longer “Mary”…”she is the saints who are born from above.”

Ok fine…think what you want Stewardofthemystery…you and I are judged by the same measure…Christ.

The transition of “Mary” from the human mother of the Lord Yahshua…to the spiritual mother of those who “are born from above of the Holy Spirit”…the Body of Christ…to this woman who “becomes the saints” themselves…who flees into the wilderness…is not found in Truth nor the Scripture friend.

Tatwo...:)

[Stewardofthemystery]

39 minutes ago, tatwo said:

You are saying…the woman in Revelation 12 is “Mary”…and the “Man Child” she bore is “Jesus Christ.”

So…continuing on with your definition of the “woman” of Revelation 12 from your first sentence…(we are still reading from the first paragraph of your OP)…who you openly state is “Mary” the mother of the “Son of Man” Jesus Christ.

Here you are saying that “this woman’s seed” (Revelation 12) the woman being “Mary”…this blessed “human woman”…is also the “womb” that brings forth the spiritual “seed” known as the “Body of Christ – Sons of God” and its many members…as it is these alone…who constitute those who are “born from above by the Holy Spirit.”

That’s interesting…because at the point of “Mary” bringing forth the Lord Jesus Christ as an infant in Bethlehem…He was the “only one” in creation at that time who was born from above by the Holy Spirit. Mary physically gave birth to the only “Lamb of God”…the “first born” of many brethren…He is the “only begotten from the Father.”

Tatwo...:)

I have never said the woman in Revelation 12 is Mary, that is a FALSE accusation.😊