Overcome and sit with God on His Throne!

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, D. Adrien said:

Jesus loves everyone that is His. I'm not a teacher or a minister of the word. what I am is a student of the word that seeks to apply it into my life. I seek to practice Christianity. Sometimes, a person's past may interfere with how the word is received if they are opposing the Holy Spirit.

Yes Jesus loves everyone even the enemies of the Gospel and by default the enemies of his children. 

But he has some special love for everyone for the simple believer who has not learned to walk in the path of righteousness and for the student who has not learned to discern the difference from the old and the knew.

Because he has died for all He seeks to bring everyone to repentance unto Life and his Grace. 

[steve morrow]

LOVE  CONDITIONALLY 

JOHN 14:15  if you love  ME  keep  MY  commandments 

JOHN 14:21  he that hath MY commandments and keepeth them he it is that loveth  ME  and he that loveth  ME  shall be loved of  MY  FATHER  and I will love him and will manifest myself to him

 

JOHN 15:9  as  THE  FATHER  hath loved  ME  so have I loved you continue ye in  MY  love 

--15:10--  IF  YOU  KEEP  MY  COMMANDMENTS  --  you shall abide in my love even as I have kept  --MY  FATHERS  COMMANDMENTS  AND  ABIDE  IN  HIS  LOVE--

 

PROVERBS 15:9  the way of the wicked is an abomination unto  THE  LORD  but  HE  loveth him that followeth after righteousness 

 

PROVERBS 8:17  I love them ---that love  ME  and those that seek me early shall find  ME

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST

[tatwo]

Greetings again brother Vine Abider,

God has a call on your life friend...you already realize that...I know that. He is revealing Himself in the greater depths of His love to you my brother...I can see that here.

Thank you

There is much that can be said here this is a subject of eternal proportions...I will keep my thoughts brief...but allow me some mercy I would not waste yours or anyone else's time if I can help it.

On 7/3/2024 at 11:38 AM, Vine Abider said:

o when Jesus says, "sit with Me on My throne,"  I think this is a matter the spiritual realm with God's Spirit fully one with us!  And we have become the "one new man" with one Spirit.  God is in Christ and Christ is in us, and we have been made one in Him - we are being (or have been?) brought into this amazing spiritual oneness of the Triune God (Father/Son/Spirit)!

Well said brother…this paragraph contains “spiritual thoughts” that came from the mind of God to you Vine Abider…which is likely why you expressed that…this may be a…“feeble attempt”…at “spiritual words?” It is not…consider the almost limitless understanding surrounding this subject?

You are expressing your spiritual understanding openly…among many…you are talking about the “throne of God”…which is sorely misunderstood. So from a “natural” perspective or sense…as you yourself pointed out…anything that is associated with the supernatural spiritual throne of God is challenging to discern for most…and nearly impossible for the carnal and immature.

Realistically…this “throne” is symbolic of…in this case…the “King of kings”…and His power and authority…His rule…His Kingdom. The Lord Yahshua Himself said it like this…”All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth”…this is the picture He gave us of His throne…while telling them and by extension us…that He is ruling from His throne…right there at that moment…always has been…always will be.

In Him…the Lord Yahshua Christ…the Holy Spirit…the spiritual throne of God came to earth…becoming existent in the realm of the natural…in a Man...He has been here in man (male/female) since.

As you stated VA…“I think this is a matter the spiritual realm with God's Spirit fully one with us!” I hear you…and in as much as I understand you…I agree. Heaven is in fact invading earth as one reads this…few and only the mature actually discern this…thank God for you and them.

It is not a “physical or temporal throne” of any sort if…one understands the Scriptures on the subject. It is a symbol of ruler-ship…it was streamed into the created heavens and earth from eternity…from outside of creation if you will…by the Spirit of God the Father of creation.

Given that the “throne of God is eternal”…it cannot and is not fully contained within that which is created…the heavens and the earth…any more than the eternal God Himself can be wholly contained...He can be incarnate however. Something that is “created” is not eternal it has a beginning therefore it has an end.

All was created by God for His purposes...and when that which He created…has served His purpose…He ceases its existence…this goes for humanity as well. Now that’s likely to short circuit all natural human reason and confound all the sons of Greece…the sons of reason…in the crowd.

It is vital for us to see that the throne is the “symbol of the authority” that holds creation together. It did not just create things...it continues to hold it together for the purposes for which God created the heavens and the earth.

Tatwo...:)

[tatwo]

At the time of my writing this…07/08/24…30+ posts and 5 days of discussion of the subject as set in the title of the forum and the OP…“Overcome and sit with God on His Throne!” I noticed that there is only the slightest touch…in regards to the actual description of…and the sitting with…God on His Throne.

What’s more astounding is that the initial reference in the OP…Revelation 3:21…”He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne”…is only 1 verse from Revelation chapter 4 in which the Lord gave John an “excellent picture” of what that might be like and of His throne in the highest of the created heavens. This is via a totally scriptural & symbolic reference...let’s take a slight peak at it shall we?

I’ll include a light commentary with the intension of assisting with some understanding of the extraordinary elements contained in this chapter. For further understanding and revelation the reader is going to have to press in…

Revelation 4 NASB  “After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven, and the first voice which I had heard, like the sound of a trumpet speaking with me, said, "Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after these things." 

John is taken to the highest heaven by the Holy Spirit through an open door…so he can get the prophetic picture of Yahshua’s “pre-creation” plans for the consummation of this creation from that day…forth. Yeh…these things had not yet happened when John was getting them because that is exactly what the Lord tells him…the Lord is prophesying to John. Additionally the Lord Yahshua is going to give him a picture of the transition into subsequent ages as well.

The voice sounds like a trumpet…there are a few references in scripture to His voice sounding like a trumpet…symbolically there is meaning in this...perchance we kick it up?

(2)  Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne was standing in heaven, and One sitting on the throne.  

He was “in the Spirit”…not the flesh which is the mind of his soul…but the Spirit…and in heaven no less…so they are inseparable. In order to understand the heavenly Spirit realm of God…one must be in the Spirit…of course.

Once there…John sees “One” sitting on the throne…and then he proceeds to describe what he saw.

(3) And He who was sitting was like a jasper stone and a sardius in appearance; and there was a rainbow around the throne, like an emerald in appearance. 

Jasper, sardius, rainbow, emerald…all symbolic…all referenced previously in Scripture...in detail…and…the understanding of these “elements” as I’ll call them…is required for a more complete interpretation of this picture of the “One actually sitting on the throne with God.”

Tatwo...:)

[tatwo]

Revelation 4 continued...

(4)  Around the throne were twenty-four thrones; and upon the thrones I saw twenty-four elders sitting, clothed in white garments, and golden crowns on their heads. 

“Around the throne”…24 thrones, 24 elders, clothed in white with golden crowns on their heads…these symbols are the keys to spiritually interpreting this picture.

I’ll offer you this…the Kingdom of God is both in the heavens and upon the earth…the number 12 along with throne is associated with “rule.” These are in the place of rule…in the heavens…around the throne of God…and upon the earth. Just think about it…

White garments are associated with the holiness, righteousness and purity of God. The golden crowns here are referenced as “stephanos” a crown of victory as in overcoming.

The symbolic picture of the elders seems to be that of “rulers that have overcome” and perhaps they are in both the heavens and upon the earth simultaneously…right now.

(5)  Out from the throne come flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder. And there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God; 

This is awesome…how does one discuss sitting upon the throne of God without this entire picture? This is what it looks like on the throne in heaven…right now.

This description…”flashes of lightening sounds and peals of thunder” These are typically the descriptors of that “throne of God” environment in heaven…similar all throughout the Scripture.

One might gain an understanding of the “seven lamps of fire and the seven Spirits of God” from a look at the first part of Isaiah 11 where it keys on “spiritual discernment” as the only method to interpret the invisible realm of God.

Tatwo...:)

[tatwo]

Revelation 4 continued...

(6)  and before the throne there was something like a sea of glass, like crystal; and in the center and around the throne, four living creatures full of eyes in front and behind. 

“Sea of glass like crystal” again this is typical with Scriptural accounts of the throne in heaven…they are symbolic as well…and carry important meaning…for the sake of brevity here…the reader can chase these things out on their own if they are so called to do so.

Now…in the center…in the midst…and around the throne…this is not the 24 elders. Think concentric circles if you will…in the center is the throne and “these” who are “in the center” perhaps “upon and around” the throne…then…there are the 24 elders on thrones…and then in chapter 5 we will see that myriads of angels are around the elders…something like a “circle within circles.”

This is somewhat of a picture of the throne room in heaven…the throne of God…and those upon…in the center of…and around the throne…which is the subject of the forum and the OP.

Enter these “four living creatures full of eyes in front and behind” This is not the first Scripture that reveals these “beings”…they are seen in the organizing of Israel to move into the wilderness…and they are referenced in Ezekiel 1 & 10 in very similar terms.

“eyes in front and in back” means they could see in every direction. Seeing in every direction means you can see the past…the present…and the future. So these four living creatures are perfectly aware of what is in the mind of God from long ages past, where those events are in present time, and where they are going in the future.

One of the differences that I have noticed between Ezekiel’s encounter and John’s encounter with these “four living creatures” is…that Ezekiel sees them in a spiritual vision and they seem to be upon the earth…John of course…is actually in the Spirit and seeing them in heaven where he is. In either case their proximity to the “throne” is very noticeable.

Described as “full of eyes in front and behind” this is likely in reference to the idea that these who are in the center or midst of and around the throne see everything…I’ll call it “eternal vision”…remember we are talking about those who “overcome and sit with God on His throne.”

Tatwo...:)

[tatwo]

(7)  The first creature was like a lion, and the second creature like a calf, and the third creature had a face like that of a man, and the fourth creature was like a flying eagle.

Lion, calf, man, eagle…all highly symbolic scripturally…in basic let’s consider their scriptural significance…remember these are on and around the throne…and we know there is only “One” on the throne…not “four”…perhaps these are “attributes” or “characteristics” of the “One” on the throne.

The “Lion”…here He is the “overcomer”…in physical creation and in heaven, is referred to as the conqueror.

The “calf or Ox” a clean surefooted animal does not deviate…”stubborn as an ox”…one that is not easily distracted, persistent, unyielding…One can revisit the Scripture when Paul wrote, “Be you therefore steadfast and unmovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord.”

The “Man” now isn’t that interesting…one of the attributes of the “four living creatures” who is in the midst of and around the throne of God is “Man”…man. In other words, these characteristics are representative of that which God raised up from the earth in order to bring forth…in the end of the age…that which was in the image and likeness of God.

The eagle…is often seen as a prophetic creature…being borne on the winds of time. This eagle is flying, it is in action, it is seeing. This is the prophetic spirit that sees. The flying eagle depends upon the winds of the Spirit. He is moving in the realm of the spirit. This is how the prophetic operates. It is borne up on the invisible but real presence of the Spirit of God as John noted.

Tatwo...:)

[tatwo]

Revelation 4 continued...

(8)  And the four living creatures, each one of them having six wings, are full of eyes around and within; and day and night they do not cease to say, "HOLY, HOLY, HOLY is THE LORD GOD, THE ALMIGHTY, WHO WAS AND WHO IS AND WHO IS TO COME." 

This forum and the OP are a focus upon those who…“Overcome and sit with God on His Throne!”…and here we are looking at highly detailed and prophetically symbolic picture of the throne in heaven and the throne room environment there as well. What better description could there be?

That’s why it was included in the scriptures…and…because of its highly symbolic descriptions…all of which are defined in the entirety of the text of scripture and illuminated by the Holy Spirit…some will see and see….hear and hear…and they will understand…the rest need to grow and mature in their spiritual discernment…or it is plainly hidden from them like a parable.

“Six wings”, again the mention of “full of eyes around and within” this is not the physical “creature” any more that the Lamb of God has seven physical eyes and seven physical horns…these are symbolic references or attributes of a true spiritual reality that exists in heaven…and dare I say in the Spirit upon the earth…today?

Six wings…denoting perhaps mobility and the ability to move rapidly in every and all directions...see Ezekiel's accounting for more detail. Again “eyes” everywhere denoting a full spectrum vision…past, present, future…of course…they are in the center, the midst of and around the throne of God. Notably they are in a constant chorus of the praise and acclaim of God also.

That’s as far as I can go with this…here at this point. I gave you something to consider…something to envision your spirit…something yet incomplete…something of more depth perhaps…something for you to reject in favor of a more “sons of Greece” style of reasoning according to earthly human wisdom.

This utterly attacks modern church doctrine and dogma...so it will upset a few I am sure.

The “sons of God” do not rely upon earthly human reasoning…their understanding is of a “higher realm”…higher than mans understanding…it’s called “revelation” and it comes only from the Holy Eternal Spirit of the One true living God as seen and experienced in the Lord Yahshua Christ…right now today…who is the unending “Word” of God Himself.

In Revelation chapter 5 we see an increased view into the throne room and the throne along with the intensified worship of the Lamb by the four living creatures…24 elders…and now we are given the addition of myriads of angels around the elders…all of which are in utter worship of the Lamb.

In chapter 6 as the Lamb breaks the first four seals…who is it but these four living creatures who are giving the orders in a “voice of thunder” which is consistent when God speaks btw…and dispatching as it were…the four horsemen of the apocalypse?

Who is it then…that when they…“Overcome and sit with God on His Throne?” Well…even with a simple and honest look at the throne as I have presented to you here…the plausibility of it being these four living creatures symbolizing "Christ...Head and Body" really jumps out…not to everyone...but definitely to those who can speak and understand the heavenly spiritual language of the Spirit Kingdom of God on earth and in heaven.

To those whom this is pure fantasy...ok...I understand...it has to be this way and you all realize this...few are holy unto God the rest hang in the balance of their own choice...anyone who reads and studies Scripture understands this reality. For those on the fence...the day of choice is upon you...is it flesh or is it Spirit that you will worship?

Tatwo...:)

Edited July 8, 2024 by tatwo
Words

[tatwo]

On 7/3/2024 at 11:38 AM, Vine Abider said:

Do you see what I'm feebly trying to convey here?  I don't see it real clearly, but I sense something supremely glorious is here! 

I do…I cannot say I see it with utter clarity either…however…I can see it more now than I ever have.

On 7/3/2024 at 11:38 AM, Vine Abider said:

"That all of them may be one, Father, just as You are in Me and I am in You. May they also be in Us so that the world may believe that You have sent Me. I have given them the glory that You gave me, that they may be one as We are one— I in them and You in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity."

John 17:21-23

Yes…the picture of the throne is “One” or “oneness”…among a multitude…One New Man…in the image and likeness of God the Father of creation…as previously seen in the character and nature of the Lord Yahshua Christ Himself. It’s the purpose for creation in the first place…to bring forth the Son of God in all His glory and full of grace and love.

That is precisely what this dark tormented “world” is going to encounter unto the end of the age brother Abider…a Body the “sons of God”…every bit as loving, holy, righteous, merciful, gracious, forgiving, beautiful…whose power and authority are completely underwritten by the throne of God…as the Lord Yahshua Himself.

He is here on the earth in His Body…which is being measured as one reads this…and is being raised to the full stature of Christ Yahshua Himself. This is what is meant by..."fulfill the earnest expectation of creation which eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God."

This to the utter destruction of all the works of the dragon…just as the Lord Yahshua did…He defeated death, hell and the grave…now we can never die…to live is Christ, to die is gain…and this son of God under the leadership of His glorious Head…will reconcile men to God…if it yet be possible near the end.

The question is…are you going to trust in the flesh…one's human reasoning of the scriptures…or put your faith in the Spirit borne Revelation of the One who took John to heaven?

Living in the Spirit is…that…which is supremely glorious Mr. Vine Abider…because there is no end!

Have you seen the “open door” into the heavens and to the throne? Have you recognized the Father’s obsession with you? Grasped His eternally and unique divine call to your spirit?

Tatwo...:)

P.S. I would like to humbly state...let me know if in any way I might be able to assist anyone with any of this.

[steve morrow]

THE  REBELLIOUS

 

JOHN 5:40  and you will not come to  ME  that you might have life 

--5:41--  I receive not honor from men 

--5:42-- but I know you that you have not the love of  GOD  in you

--5:43-- I am come in  MY  FATHERS  name and you receive  ME  not  ---if another shall come in his own name him you will receive--

--5:44-- how can you believe which receive honor one of another ---and seek not the honor that cometh from  GOD  only---

 

PROVERBS 17:15  he that justifieth the wicked and he that condemneth the just even they both are abomination to  THE  LORD---

ISAIAH 41:24  behold you are of nothing and your work of naught an abomination is he that chooseth you 

 

PSALM 5:5  the foolish shall not stand in thy sight thou hatest all workers of iniquity 

ISAIAH 57:17  for the iniquity of his covetousness was I wroth and smote him I hid  ME  and was wroth and he went on frowardly in the way of his heart

PSALM 119:36  incline my heart unto thy testimonies and not to covetousness 

PSALM 119:24  thy testimonies that thou hast commanded are righteous and very faithful

EZEKIEL 33:31  and they come unto thee as the people cometh and they sit before thee as  MY  people and they hear thy words but they will not do them for with their mouth they show much love but their heart goeth after their covetousness

 

*******EPHESIANS 5:5  for this you know that no whoremonger nor unclean person --nor covetous man --- who is an idolater--  HATH  ANY  INHERITANCE  IN  THE  KINGDOM  OF  CHRIST  AND  OF  GOD*******

 

ISAIAH 40:13  who hath directed the spirit of  THE  LORD  or being his counsellor hath taught  HIM 

--40:14--  with whom took  HE  counsel and who instructed  HIM  and taught  HIM  in the path of judgment and taught  HIM  knowledge and showed to  HIM  the way of understanding

 

PSALM 66:7  HE  RULETH  BY  HIS  POWER  FOR  EVER  HIS  EYES  BEHOLD  THE  NATIONS  ---LET  NOT  THE  REBELLIOUS  EXALT  THEMSELVES---  selah

 

PSALM 89:7  GOD  is greatly to be feared in the assembly of the saints and to be  --HAD  IN  REVERENCE-- of all that are about  HIM

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST