I can do whatever and there is No Condemnation in Christ!

[Your closest friendnt]

14 minutes ago, grahampaul said:

 

 thank you, i did ponder at times on what "born of water" was actually refering to.

You are welcome I was too was wandering for a long time but I just understood that lately when I understood that obedience to the Law was not enough to participate in the Temple Holidays before the Lord. They had to be ceremonially clean. According to the book of Leviticus. Ceremonially clean they used water washing them selfs with water. Thank you for your comment.

Edited July 15, 2024 by Your closest friendnt

[Marilyn C]

Some people are thinking that we are like the Prodigal son who was a son and therefore can`t not be a son. However, that is NOT our case. God is our Creator and when we come to the Lord we are `adopted.`

`...having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ..` (Eph. 1: 5)

And adoption can be lost, not by the Lord but by us.

 

[Vine Abider]

2 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Some people are thinking that we are like the Prodigal son who was a son and therefore can`t not be a son. However, that is NOT our case. God is our Creator and when we come to the Lord we are `adopted.`

`...having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ..` (Eph. 1: 5)

And adoption can be lost, not by the Lord but by us.

 

That is one interpretation of the word "adoption." This word (Strong's g5206) is used about 5 times in the NT from what I see.  It carries with it a legal connotation. (it can also be translated as "sonship" or "placing of sons")

However, may I suggest to you that there is also something much deeper going on with regards to God's children, which is not just legal in nature, but rather an issue of the eternal life of God coming into us making those who are born-again a new creation from/with His very life in them?  This theme (zoe - spiritual life) is especially conveyed throughout the good news of John.  This is the meaning of being "born again," into Christ, and it is "of Him that you are in Christ Jesus."  No one, including us, can pluck us from His hand. (see 1 Cor 1:30 & John 10:28)

We may even sell our birthright*, but nowhere in God's creation does one stop being a child of their biological parents . . . and this is especially true of the new birth in Christ, because we have been born with His life.  

Consider the two sister verses of Romans 8:15 7 Galatians 4:6 

"You have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, 'Abba!, Father!'"

"Because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying out, 'Abba! Father!'"

From these verses we see that it is His Spirit coming into us, and this constitutes us, organically, children of God.  This rebirth is facilitated by the wonderful, all efficacious blood of Christ, which results in there being "no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus." We get into Christ and He gets into us via accepting Him and being reborn with His eternal life.  Since God has placed us in Christ (and He's in us), we cannot be condemned any more than Christ Himself can be. 

It is His doing - all we do is accept the free gift.  This is justification by faith in Christ alone, not of works, least any could boast.  If we think that once we're born again (as His children and by His life) we can do something to loose this new life (or to keep it) - then it is in the realm of our efforts and something we may boast of. But that is not the case . . . eternal life in Christ is a free gift.

* like Esau did, but he was still Isaac's son

[farouk]

3 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi VA,

I think the difficulty is in the concept of `born again.` We remember when Nicodemus went to Jesus and Jesus told him about being `born again.` Nicodemus had the view of entering into the womb again. However, Jesus corrected him saying -

`That which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of Spirit is spirit.` (John 3: 6) 

`He who believes in Him, is not condemned: but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.` (John 3: 18 - 21)

We are born of flesh and operate that way - carnal, fleshly. We have a body soul and spirit; the body relates to the world, the soul is self knowing but the spirit is dead, not conscience of God. 

When we receive Christ as Saviour our spirit becomes alive, conscience of God. We are to feed this by reading His word, praying, and walking by the Holy Spirit`s leading. As you know this takes time. If we are shown something wrong we need to repent, however, some do not and over time they continue to practice their evil deeds.  They hadn`t counted the cost when they said they believed in Jesus. Time revealed their motive of not dying to self but loving their evil deeds. Their spirit becomes darkened as they do not want to be exposed to the light. 

Thus.............

Great verses there quoted; it's a spiritual birth, indeed......

[enoob57]

I get so tired of this rambling on and on .... if God enters a heart and God hates sin what do you think that heart will be influenced toward sin... the pleasure in things God put there- satan twists to make it look like God is trying to keep us from that but reality God designed that pleasure in only a certain way... to go any other way~ well we see the result of that in our world! The child of God will never accept sin as right yet those might get caught up in the pleasure of sin in flesh and God will either turn them back in repentance or will take them home.... but they will never not be His child...

[Marilyn C]

2 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

That is one interpretation of the word "adoption." This word (Strong's g5206) is used about 5 times in the NT from what I see.  It carries with it a legal connotation. (it can also be translated as "sonship" or "placing of sons")

However, may I suggest to you that there is also something much deeper going on with regards to God's children, which is not just legal in nature, but rather an issue of the eternal life of God coming into us making those who are born-again a new creation from/with His very life in them?  This theme (zoe - spiritual life) is especially conveyed throughout the good news of John.  This is the meaning of being "born again," into Christ, and it is "of Him that you are in Christ Jesus."  No one, including us, can pluck us from His hand. (see 1 Cor 1:30 & John 10:28)

We may even sell our birthright*, but nowhere in God's creation does one stop being a child of their biological parents . . . and this is especially true of the new birth in Christ, because we have been born with His life.  

Consider the two sister verses of Romans 8:15 7 Galatians 4:6 

"You have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, 'Abba!, Father!'"

"Because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying out, 'Abba! Father!'"

From these verses we see that it is His Spirit coming into us, and this constitutes us, organically, children of God.  This rebirth is facilitated by the wonderful, all efficacious blood of Christ, which results in there being "no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus." We get into Christ and He gets into us via accepting Him and being reborn with His eternal life.  Since God has placed us in Christ (and He's in us), we cannot be condemned any more than Christ Himself can be. 

It is His doing - all we do is accept the free gift.  This is justification by faith in Christ alone, not of works, least any could boast.  If we think that once we're born again (as His children and by His life) we can do something to loose this new life (or to keep it) - then it is in the realm of our efforts and something we may boast of. But that is not the case . . . eternal life in Christ is a free gift.

* like Esau did, but he was still Isaac's son

I agree that no one can take us from Christ, however as Paul says

`I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.....now the works of the flesh are evident,

which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, Idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those WHO PRACTICE SUCH THINGS will not inherit the kingdom of God.` (Gal. 5:16 - 21)

Now this scripture does NOT say that those who practice such things will not get their reward but that they will NOT inherit the kingdom of God. 

`Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for what ever a man sows, that he will reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.`(Gal. 6:7 & 8)

Clearly God`s word tells us that if we sow to the flesh, continually practice such things (as mentioned above) will reap CORRUPTION. And Paul is talking to believers.

[farouk]

4 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

I agree that no one can take us from Christ, however as Paul says

`I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.....now the works of the flesh are evident,

which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, Idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those WHO PRACTICE SUCH THINGS will not inherit the kingdom of God.` (Gal. 5:16 - 21)

Now this scripture does NOT say that those who practice such things will not get their reward but that they will NOT inherit the kingdom of God. 

`Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for what ever a man sows, that he will reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.`(Gal. 6:7 & 8)

Clearly God`s word tells us that if we sow to the flesh, continually practice such things (as mentioned above) will reap CORRUPTION. And Paul is talking to believers.

Hi @Marilyn C  When I saw the title, my mind went immediately to Ephesians 6, a quite similar passage to Galatians 5.

[Cntrysner]

5 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

I agree that no one can take us from Christ, however as Paul says

`I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.....now the works of the flesh are evident,

which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, Idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those WHO PRACTICE SUCH THINGS will not inherit the kingdom of God.` (Gal. 5:16 - 21)

Now this scripture does NOT say that those who practice such things will not get their reward but that they will NOT inherit the kingdom of God. 

`Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for what ever a man sows, that he will reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.`(Gal. 6:7 & 8)

Clearly God`s word tells us that if we sow to the flesh, continually practice such things (as mentioned above) will reap CORRUPTION. And Paul is talking to believers.

I believe God removed sin and it’s penalty before placing us in Christ’s Body because God can not allow sin to corrupt His Body. We are weak in the flesh and always will be so God resolved this problem with circumcision which removes our body of flesh thus creating a new creature that can not sin. We wait in our shell of flesh which wars against the Spirit that God placed in us, as Paul said, I die daily and to be absent from his body of flesh is to be present with the Lord.  Whether by death or rapture we will leave this shell revealing the Spirit inside of us and be clothed in Christ and no longer at war with the flesh. 

Col 2:10  And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 
Col 2:11  In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 
Col 2:12  Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 
Col 2:13  And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 

1Jn 3:8  He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 
1Jn 3:9  Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 

2Co 3:18  But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord. 
 

Edited July 16, 2024 by Cntrysner

[Truswell]

15 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Hello @Cntrysner this passage is addressing the status of Nicodemus as he was a Jew. Jesus was talking to Nicodemus before the Cross. Nicodemus believed in him because the Jews at that time they had study the prophetic scriptures that the Messiah will be identified by his doing of miraculous works. And the Holy Spirit was at work with him and his eyes of understanding were open and this is why he said to Jesus: no one can do those miraculous works unless it is given to him from God. 

Jesus when he said to him Unless a man be born of water was referring to the status of Nicodemus as a Jew in obedience to the Law and in adherence to the cleansing laws of the law. Nicodemus in that state in obedience to the Law before the Cross and in obedience to the cleansing laws was eligible to participate in the blessings of the Celebrations in the Temple before the Lord. Which Jesus acknowledged. And then Jesus for the first time as we know said something to him in private and not in public as usual he let Nicodemus know about the things to come and that the Life will come to people from him but he had to die first. Jesus said to a man who believed in the same way like his disciples that the Messiah will live forever that this will happen but he had to die first and he gave him the sign of the Bronze Serpent Moses had lifted up in the dessert. 

Remember what God said to Moses that time that he will send healing to them from the strings of death through someone else and not from him directly. 

That was the Bronze Serpent given to them from God. The Bronze Serpent healed them He gave them Life and was some power from God. The representation of what will happen when Jesus Christ die. That he has to die first for the Life to come to those who are perishing. 

After that the Israelites put the Bronze Serpent in the Temple with the Lord and they burned insence to him.

They offered worship to him just like a God. Think of the parallel of what happened to Jesus Christ who was exalted to the Throne of the Heavenly Father in the Heavenly and we worship him together with God. 

The time came and the Lord said to Moses: pount the Bronze Serpent to dust and mix it with water and make the people to drink it. JESUS CHRIST IN US. 

Not at that time Nicodemus understood what Jesus was telling him after everything happened to him and was raised from the dead and lifted up to Heaven to be with God and the Life of the Savior Jesus Christ making his abode to us in his name. 

There is more on Nicodemus and JOHN 3:4-7 here:-

JESUS AND NICODEMUS - General Discussion - Worthy Christian Forums

Edited July 16, 2024 by Truswell

[Vine Abider]

9 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those WHO PRACTICE SUCH THINGS will not inherit the kingdom of God.` (Gal. 5:16 - 21)

Now this scripture does NOT say that those who practice such things will not get their reward but that they will NOT inherit the kingdom of God. 

`Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for what ever a man sows, that he will reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.`(Gal. 6:7 & 8)

Clearly God`s word tells us that if we sow to the flesh, continually practice such things (as mentioned above) will reap CORRUPTION. And Paul is talking to believers.

Sister - this says they will not inherit the kingdom, it doesn't say they will stop being an eternal child of God.  One must be a child to inherit.  Being a child is a matter of life; being an heir is a matter of rewards.

No loving father kills his children for misbehaving, but they may loose their inheritance.