I can do whatever and there is No Condemnation in Christ!

[FreeGrace]

On 7/13/2024 at 2:15 PM, D. Adrien said:

How do you reconcile your OP with the following?

Mat.7:21-23

I Never Knew You

21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

In v.21 Jesus is teaching that there will be those who think they will enter heaven but won't enter!!

In v.22 Jesus is referring to the GWT judgment (on THAT day) and the crowds who thought they will enter heaven appealing to Jesus on account of their works.

Notice in v.23 Jesus doesn't call them liars regarding their works, instead, He tells them He "never knew" them.  It seems farfetched to me that Jesus would ever say that He "never" knew anyone who believed in Him.  How could that be?  

The Greek word for 'never' here is ginosko, and means an intimate knowledge based on experience.  This is the word Mary said to Gabriel about carrying a child when she "did not know a man" (sexual intimacy).

We know that believers possess eternal life WHEN they believe, per John 5:24 and that Jesus Himself gives eternal life (to believers) and the result is that they shall never perish, per John 10:28.

So, Jesus would never said to anyone He gave eternal life to that He "never knew" them.

So v.23 shows that the people He is referring to have never believed in Him for eternal life.  In fact, v.22 shows clearly that they thought they could EARN heaven, which is blasphemy against His finished work on the cross FOR mankind.

[Marathoner]

7 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

I hear ye!  It is beyond comprehension how much shame one would have when coming face to face with the One who gave it all for us, and also equipped us to run the race, if we had not at least been "faithful in a few things."  (we don't want to set the bar too high, nor set it too low - in any case, it's His life and strength within us that will get us there . . . if we let Him operate in us)

A long time ago, I was so audacious that I simply asked the Lord for His judgment here and now. I desired to walk in the judgment of the Holy One so that nothing would leap upon me unawares, like the proverbial thief in the night. What happened?

Not only was the Lord pleased to grant my petition, but this served as my first example of what happens when we ask Him for things in accordance with His will. Walking in His judgment at all times is indeed a blessing that God is well-pleased to grant to those who are bold enough to ask such a thing of Him: 

Ask the Lord for wisdom, and He shall subject us to the fiery trial so we might learn the nature of this flesh which is perishing. 

Ask the Lord for strength, and we will endure tribulation so that we learn what it means to persevere in the face of fear and press on in the grip of terror.

Ask the Lord what He will have us do, and He will begin to teach us about His ways. 

Ask the Lord to destroy you, and He will strip away vainglorious pride and everything that you took for granted in this life; and, once His scourging is complete, He will lift you up from the ashes and fashion you into the man He desires you to be upon this earth.

Much like how there is no condemnation in the Lord --- He never condemns His beloved but rather, convicts us --- there is nothing too extreme nor audacious that we cannot ask for from Him. Everything I wrote about above, I asked of the Lord... and everything I asked for, He granted. I asked the Lord to destroy me?

I did indeed, and I remember that day as if it happened yesterday. I was almost dead. I pleaded with the Lord to destroy me and, when He revealed that everything except for my life had been taken away, I realized that He knew what I would ask for without the need for me to say a word. He granted my petition, only it didn't transpire in the way I expected it would. After all, I just wanted to finally expire so my suffering in this flesh would come to an end... 

The Lord had something else in mind. All of those things were taken away so that He might lift me from the ground in a manner pleasing to Him. It all started with teaching me how to speak and think again. God is so good that He never ceases to leave me speechless in wonder. 

He didn't condemn me for pleading to die. On the contrary, coming to the end of myself was precisely what I needed. There is no condemnation whatsoever in Christ Jesus!

Edited July 19, 2024 by Marathoner

[Your closest friendnt]

23 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

In v.21 Jesus is teaching that there will be those who think they will enter heaven but won't enter!!

Jesus is teaching about "the Kingdom of Heaven". That some believers who are in his righteousness and in his Atonement during the time of their sojourning on earth will not enter the Kingdom of heaven because they are walking in iniquity. 

Instant of receiving the blessings of the Kingdom and closeness in the fellowship of Jesus the opposite will happen to them. They will find themselves far away from the light of Jesus and the warmth of his fellowship because of the things they do which Jesus called works of iniquity. 

If Jesus does not do that to them they will think that it's ok to continue in their works of iniquity.

Jesus is distancing himself from them. He does not want to be associated with them in the wrong things they do.

Jesus points that he wants his people to abide in righteousness and do the works of righteousness.

They are not walking with him. Rather they want Jesus to walk with them and ignore the works of their iniquity.

Jesus put the record strait that they are not walking in his light but they are in some darkness and far away from him and he wants them to repent and change their ways and be restored to his fellowship. 

Then they will experience the things of the Kingdom of God in Jesus Christ which is peace and Joy and righteousness in his name the way he gives it to those who walk in his will and draw from the water of life springing from his well. 

 And to one church in Revelation 3: said that you are in danger of having your lambstant remove from before me because of what you are teaching and doing and the way you treat the believers.

We learn that they also did works of faith in his name.  Jesus did not say anything against that.

Edited July 19, 2024 by Your closest friendnt

[FreeGrace]

8 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

FreeGrace said:

In v.21 Jesus is teaching that there will be those who think they will enter heaven but won't enter!!

Jesus is teaching about "the Kingdom of Heaven". That some believers during the time of their sojourning on earth will not enter the Kingdom of heaven.

Jesus said that "whoever believes HAS eternal life" in John 5:24.  Both verbs are in the present tense, meaning;  the MOMENT one believes they possess eternal life.

Then, in John 10:28, He indicated that He is the Giver of the free gift of eternal life, and the result, in His own words, are that "they shall NEVER perish".  What you are claiming is in direct contradiction to what Jesus said.  

8 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Instant of receiving the blessings of the Kingdom and closeness in the fellowship of Jesus the opposite will happen to them.

They will find themselves far away from the light of Jesus and the warmth of his fellowship because of the things they do which are contrary to the will of the Heavenly Father.  

But they are still in the Love of Jesus Christ because Jesus Christ expects from them to come to repentance.

This doesn't agree with your opening paragraph, where you stated:  "That some believers during the time of their sojourning on earth will not enter the Kingdom of heaven."  I take "kingdom of heaven" to refer to salvation and being in heaven in eternity.  Maybe you meant something else.

8 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

If Jesus does not do that to them they thing that everything is OK that they can do those works of iniquity and still be in the Bosom of Jesus Christ in other words in his Love and in the light of his presence.

Again, Jesus didn't call them liars about what they were basing their appeal for entrance to heaven on.  But rather, called all those works they did, IN HIM NAME, as iniquity.

Why would Jesus do that?  Because, as unbelievers, who NEVER believed in Him for salvation, were doing these works from the energy of their own sinful flesh.  Unbelievers are quite capable of being quite moral.  But since the works were done in their own power, and not in the power of the Holy Spirit, Jesus called them sinful.

8 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

The point is for them to come to repentance. Because they are still alive and kicking. And long to be in the presence of Jesus Christ close to his light. 

The words "in THAT day" is a reference to the GWT judgment, which will be for every unsaved person in humanity. 

8 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Jesus Christ to bring them to their senses he withdraw his fellowship from them, they are not close to him anymore but far away in fellowship with him.

Since Jesus was real clear about having "NEVER knew them", He was indicating that they NEVER believed in Him as Savior.  In fact, that is seen by their appeal for entering the kingdom;  their own works.  

8 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

This is what Jesus said he will do to some of the church in Revelation 3: after warning them. And that church was one of the seven churches as He warned them that he will come back suddenly to pass judgment on them and that will happen if they do not do what he is asking them.

The letters to the 7 churches in Revelation are to believers, saved people.  Please cite the verses in chapter 3 that indicate any of them will lose salvation.

8 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Jesus scolded them because they did not have good works as they should, and he said of their works of iniquity.

That is correct, but is irrelevant to Matt 7:21-23, where the crowd were all unbelievers at the GWT judgment.

8 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

In this example Jesus said he never knew them.

Proving that they NEVER believed.  How could Jesus say He NEVER knew anyone who had put their faith in Him as Savior.

8 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

It may be that from the beginning they were doing the works of iniquity and they were not in close fellowship with him because he is not endorsing and associate himself with their works.

No need to speculate here.  The 3 verses are quite clear.  They never believed, they had put their faith in their own works, and were unbelievers doing good works from their own sinful nature, which is iniquity.  God is not impressed with man's righteousnesses.  Isa 64:6 - All of us have become like one who is unclean,
and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

The Hebrew for 'filthy rags' is literally "used menstrual rags".  PEW!

Our own righteousness stinks to high heaven.  

8 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

We learn that they also did works of faith in his name.  Jesus did not say anything against that.

His condemnation of them was based on the FACT that He NEVER knew them.  They were NEVER believers.

Jesus couldn't say that for anyone who had ever believed in Him as Savior.

8 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

 

Unfortunately, none of my points were addressed.  Your post provides no evidence from Scripture that supports the claims being made.

[Your closest friendnt]

3 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Jesus said that "whoever believes HAS eternal life" in John 5:24.  Both verbs are in the present tense, meaning;  the MOMENT one believes they possess eternal life.

Then, in John 10:28, He indicated that He is the Giver of the free gift of eternal life, and the result, in His own words, are that "they shall NEVER perish".

There is never has been a dispute about the verses above from me. The meaning of the verses above is clear. 

Pay due attention that Jesus has not die on the Cross yet. The Atonement has not been made, he is not the Lord of all yet, the Gentiles have not been called to faith and he is not glorified and made the Judge of all people of the world. 

Jesus spoke of the things to come after his glorification after his death on the Cross prophetically before they happened. Because he is protrating himself as the Judge of all when he is not just yet.

And by protrating himself as the Judge of all he is telling them that he is the Messiah the Christ of God to come through whom God will judge all the people of the world including the Jews. The people should understand that the Father has apointed him to be their Judge or that they will be Judged by him.  That he is the one they were promised and they were waiting for. 

 

[FreeGrace]

8 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

There is never has been a dispute about the verses above from me. The meaning of the verses above is clear.

8 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

 

Pay due attention that Jesus has not die on the Cross yet. The Atonement has not been made, he is not the Lord of all yet, the Gentiles have not been called to faith and he is not glorified and made the Judge of all people of the world. 

I don't see any relevance to this.  We know He died for everyone, which was prophesied from the OT.  So it doesn't matter when He paid the sin debt.

8 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Jesus spoke of the things to come after his glorification after his death on the Cross prophetically before they happened. Because he is protrating himself as the Judge of all when he is not just yet.

Yes, He was speaking of His Millennial rule over the earth.

8 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

And by protrating himself as the Judge of all he is telling them that he is the Messiah the Christ of God to come through whom God will judge all the people of the world including the Jews. The people should understand that the Father has apointed him to be their Judge or that they will be Judged by him.  That he is the one they were promised and they were waiting for. 

Yes, the King will judge all believers at the Bema per 2 Cor 5:10 and all unbelievers at the GWT judgment per Rev 20:11-15.

[steve morrow]

WHO  IS  IT  THAT  HATH  NO  CONDEMNATION 

the wicked or those that love  THE  FATHER  AND  THE  SON

 

MATTHEW 22:29  JESUS  answered and said unto them you do err --not knowing the scriptures --- NOR  THE  POWER  OF  GOD--

ISAIAH 55:2  wherefore do you spend money for that which is not bread and your labor for that which satisfieth not --hearken diligently unto  ME  and eat you that which is good -- and let your soul delight itself in fatness--

 

PSALM 145:20  THE  LORD  PRESERVETH  all them that love  HIM  but all the wicked will  HE  --destroy--

 

PSALM 37:28  for  THE  LORD  loveth judgment and forsaketh not  HIS  SAINTS  they are preserved forever ---  but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off

 

PSALM 28:3  draw me not away with the wicked and with the workers of iniquity which speak peace to their neighbors ---but mischief is in their hearts---

--28:4-- give them according to their deeds and according to the wickedness of their endeavors ---give them after the work of their hands render to them their desert

--28:5--  because they regard not the works of  THE  LORD  nor the operation of  HIS  HANDS  he shall --destroy-- them and not build them up 

 

    ***EPHESIANS 2:9  not of works lest any man should boast***

 

PSALM 33:4  for the word of  THE  LORD  is right and all  HIS  works are done in truth

 

PSALM 92:5  O LORD  how great are thy works and thy thoughts are very deep

--92:6--  a brutish man knoweth not --- neither doth a fool understand this --

 

PROVERBS 8:14  counsel is mine and sound wisdom --I  AM  UNDERSTANDING--

2 TIMOTHY  consider what I say and  THE  LORD  give thee understanding in   ALL  THINGS

PROVERBS 21:16  the man that wandereth out of the way of understanding --- shall remain in the congregation of the dead ---    

 

   

 ***DO  THE  COVETOUS  LOVE  THE  LORD***

 

JOHN 14:23  JESUS  answered and said unto him --IF-- a man love  ME  he will keep  MY  words and  MY  FATHER  will love him and we will come unto him and make our abode with him

 

PSALM 119:36  incline my heart unto thy testimonies and not to covetousness 

PSALM 119:138  THY  TESTIMONIES   ---   that thou hast commanded are righteous and very faithful

JOHN 5:34  but I receive not testimony from man but these things I say that you might be saved 

ISAIAH 2:22  CEASE  you from man whose breath is in his nostrils for wherein is he to be accounted of 

ISAIAH 8:20  to the law and to the testimony --IF--  they speak not according to this word it is because they have no light in them 

 

EZEKIEL 33:31  and they come unto thee as the people cometh and they sit before thee as  MY  people and they hear thy words  ---  BUT  --- they will not do them for with their mouth they show much love but their heart goeth after their covetousness 

 

MARK 7:21  for from within out of the heart of men proceed evil thoughts adulteries fornications murders

--7:22--  thefts  --COVETOUSNESS--  WICKEDNESS --  deceit lasciviousness an evil eye blasphemy pride foolishness

--7:23--  all these evil things come from within and defile the maN 

 

PSALM 10:3  for the wicked boasteth of his hearts desire and blesseth the covetous whom  THE  LORD  abhorreth 

 

EPHESIANS 5:5  for this you know that no whoremonger nor unclean person **nor covetous ** who is an idolater** hath any inheritance in the kingdom of  GOD

 

PSALM 119:155  salvation is far from the wicked for they seek not  MY  statutes

 

COLOSSIANS 3:5  mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth fornication uncleanness inordinate affection evil concupiscence ---and covetousness which is idolatry 

 

MATTHEW 12:35  a good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things 

--12:36--  but I say unto you that every idle word that men shall speak they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment 

--12:37--  for by thy words thou shalt be justified and by thy words thou shalt be  ---  CONDEMNED    ---

 

ISAIAH 41:14  behold you are of nothing and your work of naught an abomination is he that chooseth you

 

JAMES 1:12  blessed is the man that endureth temptation for when he is tried he shall receive the crown of life which  THE  LORD  hath promised --to them that love  HIM--

 

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST

 

 

 

[Cntrysner]

Can a dead man sin? If we, the old man, truly died in Christ, how is it that he can sin again and lose the promise of eternal life. The old man did not resurrect with Christ, it was a new creature raised to walk in newness of life without sin. Sin is transgression of the law yet the new creature is not under law. This new man can not walk after the flesh because God removed him from that sinful body and placed him into the body of Christ who is without sin, in other words, if your are in Christ you cannot sin. The new man is still tripartite via the Holy Spirit inside of him. The new man is not of this world thus not visible to the world, all they can see is flesh of the dead man. Christ can not reside in a body of sin yet believers still sin, God solved this problem with circumcision made without hands in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh. We should not sin in the flesh but when we do and we will, it does not affect the new creature created by the operations of God.

1- The law was removed thus no sin. (Rom 6:14)
2- The old man died with Christ thus cannot sin. (Rom 6:6-7)
3- Circumcision of Christ removed the body of flesh. (Col 2:11)
4- Creation of new creature not of sinful world. (2Co 5:16-19) (Joh 15:19) 

1Jn 3:4  Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 
1Jn 3:5  And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 
1Jn 3:6  Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 
1Jn 3:7  Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 
1Jn 3:8  He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 
1Jn 3:9  Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Col 2:10  And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 
Col 2:11  In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 
Col 2:12  Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 
Col 2:13  And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 

Eph 2:5  Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) 
Eph 2:6  And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 
Eph 2:7  That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.  
 

[steve morrow]

WHY  THEN  DO  SO  MANY CONTINUE  TO  DO  WORKS  IN  UNRIGHTEOUSNESS  --SIN--  NOT  ACCEPTING  GODS  SUFFICIENCY  OF  GRACE  --SIN--

 

PSALM 33:4  for the word of  THE  LORD  is right and all  HIS  works are done in truth 

 

ROMANS 8:1  there is therefore now no condemnation to them which are ***IN  CHRIST  JESUS*** who walk not after the flesh but after the spirit

 

MARK 1:14  now after that John was put in prison  JESUS  came into Galilee preaching the gospel of the kingdom of  GOD 

--1:15--  and saying the time is fulfilled and the kingdom of  GOD  is at hand repent you and believe the gospel

1 PETER 1:25  but the word of  THE  LORD  endureth forever and this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you 

 

 

2 CORINTHIANS 7:10  for godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of  ---  but the sorrow of the world worketh death

--7:11--  for behold this selfsame thing that you sorrowed after a godly sort what carefulness it wrought in you yea what clearing of yourselves yea what indignation yea what fear yea what vehement desire yea what zeal yea what revenge in all things you have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter

 

REVELATION 2:21  and I gave her space to repent of her fornication and she repented not 

--2:22-- behold I will cast her into a bed and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation ---except they repent of their deeds ---

--2:23--and I will kill her children with death and all the churches shall know that I am  HE  which searcheth  the reins and hearts and I will give unto everyone of you --- according to your works 

 

PSALM 145:17  THE  LORD  is righteous in all  HIS  ways and holy in all  HIS  works

 

TITUS 2:11  for the grace of  GOD  that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men

--2:12--  teaching us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts we should ---live soberly -- righteously -- and godly -- in this present world 

 

ROMANS 1:18  for the wrath of  GOD  is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who hold the truth in unrighteousness 

TITUS 1:1  Paul a servant of  GOD  and an apostle of  JESUS  CHRIST   according to the faith of  GODS  elect and the acknowledging of the truth --which is after godliness--

 

2 PETER 3:18  but  ***grow in grace*** and in the knowledge of our  LORD  and  SAVIOUR  JESUS  CHRIST  to  HIM  be glory both now and forever --- AMEN

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST

[Jaydub]

On 7/16/2024 at 3:01 PM, Vine Abider said:

It seems to me there are three basic ways Christians look at this matter of eternal life/salvation:

1. Saved, but through actions can loose salvation

2. Saved eternally as God's children, and through no actions can salvation be lost

3. Agrees with #2, but also sees consequences and Bema judgement for actions of God's children after being saved

I think it boils down to there are two types of Christians those saved and those who think they are saved. If someone continues to walk in sin then there is a very good chance they are not saved, they were never really born again