Why many Christian Denominations doubt the divinity of Jesus

[Vine Abider]

3 hours ago, Neighbor said:

Huh? As the Spirit, the Holy Spirit? ???

How many Spirits are there? If you look at Romans 8 there's indication that all three from the godhead live in Born Again believers!

[Truswell]

1 hour ago, other one said:

That looks pretty close to denying the trinity.

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.  (1Th 5:23)
 

We are body, soul and spirit while being one, and so is God, so please don't let that get between us. :)

[Neighbor]

God the son did evidently manifest as an angel of God at least once within the OT, and did manifest once to date as a human being giving up his absolute power of God in order to take onto himself the consequence of all the faults (sin) of all those given Him By His Father, so that he may do what no one is able. He reconciles the books  of accord so that many may be found sinless in the sight of God the Father, Himself, and God the Holy spirit.

Jesus  has paid in full the full accounting of all the sins of all those individuals given him; as is shared  within the NT.  That accounting for sin against God is death, eternal separation from God ( Father Son and Holy Spirit). It is wiped out by the shed blood of Jesus the passover Lamb, soaked up into the earth so that there is no further account of sin against any human foreknown and predestined by God to come to see hear and heed the call by the Holy Spirit to worship Jesus as the one son of God the Father, the one and only son.

Jesus is the one that is worthy, none other can pay the price of sin except by the  eternal death of the sinner. The Holy Spirt has his own separate honor and duty within what is the triune nature of one God. He is the comforter who at this time is comforting those  born again saints in Christ Jesus that are given awareness of Jesus being  the scarlet thread of redemption the only way to eternal life with the one Triune God.  

Comfort from, and of, the Holy Spirit comes to the born again individual when the Holy Spirit indwells a human being as they are turned about from sin against God by the specific call to the individual by  the Holy Spirit to worship of God (Father,  Son, Holy Spirit).  

Born again humans are sustained by the Comforter the Holy Spirit, all while Jesus prepares a place, an eternal place for all that will be with God the Father for eternity  forward.

There will be a sudden calling for the Bride, the groom will come  as a thief in the night. There will be a honeymoon. There will be a new heaven and a new Earth and a New Jerusalem as all things present will pass away.

Yes God is triune, Father Son and Holy Spirit are one God. 

Maranatha!

[Neighbor]

20 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

How many Spirits are there? If you look at Romans 8 there's indication that all three from the godhead live in Born Again believers!

Hi,  sure there are many spirits. We are spirit and soul as well as flesh are we not? (Rhetorical question). There however are not multiple Holy Spirits.  

Nor are there multiple saviors that willingly sacrifice themselves on the cross at Calvary and leave us the one Holy Spirit as the comforter of each one of us called specifically and then indwelled by the Holy Spirit till his (Jesus) soon (quick) return. 

There is always one God;  consisting of one Father, one Son, and one Holy Spirit. There is not a changing where one becomes another leaving vacant any personage of the triune nature that is God at any time.

[Vine Abider]

6 hours ago, Neighbor said:

Huh? As the Spirit, the Holy Spirit? ???

 

3 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

How many Spirits are there? If you look at Romans 8 there's indication that all three from the godhead live in Born Again believers!

 

2 hours ago, Neighbor said:

Hi,  sure there are many spirits. We are spirit and soul as well as flesh are we not? (Rhetorical question). There however are not multiple Holy Spirits.  

Nor are there multiple saviors that willingly sacrifice themselves on the cross at Calvary and leave us the one Holy Spirit as the comforter of each one of us called specifically and then indwelled by the Holy Spirit till his (Jesus) soon (quick) return. 

There is always one God;  consisting of one Father, one Son, and one Holy Spirit. There is not a changing where one becomes another leaving vacant any personage of the triune nature that is God at any time.

Discussions regarding the Triune God are always fun, because in the end, God really is mysterious to us.  We have the Last Adam (Christ) becoming a life-giving Spirit in 1 Corinthians 15:45.  And Paul uses the phrase "the Spirit of Jesus Christ" (Romans 8:9) and Peter writes "the Spirit of Christ" (1 Peter 1:11).  Jesus tells us in John 14:17, "the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you know Him, for He lives with you and will be in you." (Colossians 1:27 and 1 Corinthians 13:5 specifically state that it is Christ in us.)

And probably my fav passage showing all three of the Godhead live in us is Romans 8:9-11   "You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of His Spirit who lives in you."

Fully comprehending this, as my dad might say, "Is like trying to corner Jello!"

[Tristen]

On 7/17/2024 at 7:46 AM, Peelo said:

John 14:28 cast doubt on the divinity of Jesus. Apologists have made some weak arguments trying to say that it doesn’t mean what it means.

John 10:30 Jesus is quoted as saying “the father and I are one”. Is this Jesus actually saying that he has Jehovah? 
 

In John 14:28 Jesus is saying that the father is greater than he is.

what do you think? Was Jesus God has many denominations believe Or was he simply a profit as the Muslims believe?

Jehovah’s Witnesses believe Jesus was an angel.

Mormons belief Lucifer and Jesus were brothers and one and the same.

The Jews are still waiting for the Messiah.

Agnostics and atheist do not believe that Jesus of Nazareth actually existed.

This is confusing for a lot of people.
 

 

The Eternal Deity of Christ if a fundamental doctrine of the Christian faith. That is, The Eternal Deity of Christ is a defining doctrine of Christianity. A "denomination" that does not subscribe to The Eternal Deity of Christ is therefore not a Christian "denomination".

The particular doctrine may be difficult (perhaps impossible) to fully comprehend. But there is no confusion about the place of this doctrine in Christian belief.

JWs, Mormons, Jews (Judaizers), agnostics and atheists are not Christian beliefs. Their opinions on Christian doctrine are irrelevant to Christianity. The topic is only "confusing" if you try to conflate Christian beliefs with non-Christian beliefs.

 

[Neighbor]

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

Is like trying to corner Jello!

Hey just freeze it first, in Gray Goose of course.

 

 

Did I  say that?

[enoob57]

The best understanding for me is Love as 1Cor 13 teaches requires minimum of two persons and is perfect in three or more...
 

1 John 4:16

16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
KJV
 

[Hopefully]

“So who is the liar? It is the one who says Jesus is not the Messiah. Whoever says that is the enemy of Christ—the one who does not believe in the Father or in his Son.

Whoever does not believe in the Son does not have the Father, but whoever accepts the Son has the Father too.

Be sure that you continue to follow the teaching you heard from the beginning. If you do that, you will always be in the Son and in the Father. And this is what the Son promised us—eternal life.

I am writing this letter about those who are trying to lead you into the wrong way.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2‬:‭22‬-‭26‬ ‭

With the above being said, should people split up who’s who? Because choosing the father over the son is a fail.

There is only one way.

 

 

 

Edited July 20, 2024 by Hopefully

[Retrobyter]

On 7/16/2024 at 5:46 PM, Peelo said:

John 14:28 cast doubt on the divinity of Jesus. Apologists have made some weak arguments trying to say that it doesn’t mean what it means.

John 10:30 Jesus is quoted as saying “the father and I are one”. Is this Jesus actually saying that he has Jehovah? 
 

In John 14:28 Jesus is saying that the father is greater than he is.

what do you think? Was Jesus God as many denominations believe Or was he simply a profit [prophet] as the Muslims believe?

Jehovah’s Witnesses believe Jesus was an angel.

Mormons belief Lucifer and Jesus were brothers and one and the same.

The Jews are still waiting for the Messiah.

Agnostics and atheist do not believe that Jesus of Nazareth actually existed.

This is confusing for a lot of people.

Shabbat shalom, @Peelo.

Yeeshuwa` ("Jesus") never called Himself "God," although He DID say, "Before Avraham was, I AM!" (John 8:58). And, the Jews were NOT ignorant of the implication! They picked up stones to stone Him to death for blasphemy!

He mostly referred to Himself as "the Son of man," identifying Himself as a human being. The Greek phrase "ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου" = "ho huios tou anthroopou" comes from the Hebrew phrase "בֶן־אָדָם" = "ben 'Aadaam," "a-son of-Adam." "The man," with the definite article attached, "הָאָדָם" = "the red-[man]," formed from "הָאֲדָמָה" = "the-red-[ground]," Genesis 2:7, is first found in Genesis 1:27, and this word gave rise to the man's "name" in Genesis 5:2 (which was actually the name of BOTH Adam and Chavah, or "Eve," together).

Occasionally, He was identified as "the Son of God," the Greek phrase "υἱὸς θεοῦ" or "ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ θεοῦ" = "[the] son of-[the]-God," but then, so was Adam in Luke 3:38. John describes His origin best:

John 1:1-3, 14 (KJV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
...

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Later, we read this from the SAME CHAPTER:

John 1:19-34 (KJV)

19 And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him,

"Who art thou?"

20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed,

"I am not the Christ."

21 And they asked him,

"What then? Art thou Elias?"

And he saith,

"I am not."

"Art thou that prophet?"

And he answered,

"No."

22 Then said they unto him,

"Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself?"

23 He said,

"I [am] 'the voice of one crying in the wilderness, "Make straight the way of the Lord,"' as said the prophet Esaias (Isaiah)." 

24 And they which were sent were of the Pharisees. 25 And they asked him, and said unto him,

"Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?"

26 John answered them, saying,

"I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; 27 He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose."

28 These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing. 29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith,

"Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world! 30 This is he of whom I said, 'After me cometh a man which is preferred before me': for he was before me (even though Yochanan was 6 months older). 31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water."

32 And John bare record, saying,

"I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. 33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, 'Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.' 34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God (οὗτός ἐστιν ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ θεοῦ)."

So, he was indeed the Word (Greek: ho Logos), who was God. The question is: Is He still God? As I read the above, He wasn't just "put in flesh" (incarnated); He "was MADE flesh!" He BECAME flesh!

We read this exchange between Gavri'eel ("Gabriel") and Miryam ("Mary") before she even conceived Yeeshuwa`,

Luke 1:26-38 (KJV)

26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, 27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name [was] Mary. 28 And the angel came in unto her, and said,

"Hail, [thou that art] highly favoured, the Lord [is] with thee: blessed [art] thou among women!"

29 And when she saw [him], she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be. 30 And the angel said unto her,

"Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God! 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS (Greek: IEESOUS = Hebrew: YEESHUWA`). 32 He shall be great, and shall be called 'the Son of the Highest (God)': and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end!" 

34 Then said Mary unto the angel,

"How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?"

35 And the angel answered and said unto her,

"The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called 'the Son of God.' 36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren. 37 For with God nothing shall be impossible!"

38 And Mary said,

"Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word."

And the angel departed from her.

We're not told the details, but I believe that the רוּחַ - הַקֹּדֶשׁ = Ruwach - haQqodesh ("the Holy Spirit" or "the Holy Ghost" or "the-Wind of-the-Holy-[One]") came upon Miryam very soon after that message. Therefore, we can see that Yochanan the Immerser ("John the Baptist") was around 6 months older than Yeeshuwa`, for 'ElisheVet ("Elisabeth") was about to go into the third trimester with Yochanan, when Yeeshuwa` was about to be conceived.

Yeeshuwa`, who was and still is the Word, is no longer infinite in omnipresence, nor is He the Ruler of the Universe. His Father, God (God the Father) has that role. He is now LOCALIZED by being "a BODY of flesh and bones" after His Resurrection (Luke 24:39), and He has become the Mediator between God and man (1 Timothy 2:5)! That's His role now, and His realm is THIS EARTH (AND THE NEXT)! That city, of which many call its description "Heaven," is actually the New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:1-22:5). This will be a LITERAL, PHYSICAL city that will exist upon the earth after it has been remade! Yeeshuwa`s Kingdom is NOT just for a "thousand years!" It will exist throughout ETERNITY! "The Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: and HE SHALL REIGN OVER THE HOUSE OF JACOB FOR EVER; and OF HIS KINGDOM THERE SHALL BE NO END!"