Are we saved by faith alone?

[Cyoder]

This is something I have trouble understanding.  I see so many say all we need is Faith in Jesus to be saved.  Reading the sermon on the mount, Jesus does not say this at all.  It seems like his sermon would have been thirty seconds.  Have faith I am the Christ and you shall be saved.  The end.  I understand works will not get you to heaven but like a qoute I read, even satan believes in Jesus and I know he won't be in heaven. 

Jesus laid out a specific path for all of us to follow to the best of our ability with the help of God if I understand it correctly.  I know it's impossible to follow perfectly and that's where Jesus comes in and from what I would think repentance?  If all we need is faith, does it matter?  Can we just live in sin, without repent, have faith and be good to go?  This doesn't sound right to me at all.  But then the thief of the cross next to Jesus was saved.  He just believed and I'm guessing repented.  Say he was let down and lived five more years.  If he went back to stealing without any regrets, would he still be saved?

I am just kind of writing what I'm thinking so you understand where I'm coming from. I've seen both sides of this argument and I don't exactly know what to think.  I'm still working my way through the Bible for the first time.

[Sower]

16 minutes ago, Cyoder said:

Can we just live in sin, without repent, have faith and be good to go?  This doesn't sound right to me at all.

Well, I was raised in the catholic church from infancy for 30yrs. In that religion it is all about works.
Like most all other religions. I also had a problem like you at first. I heard the good news. I began to study the word.
I ask many questions. My mind/heart changed, my thinking changed, I was receiving the light of God's word!

This changed thinking is called repenting. Repent and be saved. What does repent mean?
The term “repent” in the Bible is translated from the Greek word “metanoia”, which means “change of mind”. Therefore, the meaning of “repent” encompasses not just feeling sorry for your sins, but a complete change in how one thinks and lives.

Every born again believer has to have repented, changed their thinking, in order to be saved. This change in thinking comes about through downloading in their mind the Light, the word, from the bible. This Light chases out darkness, untruth.

This understanding gives birth to belief . Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the WORD. Made alive.
Not just a sinners prayer, but an understanding of what God has done by offering his life as the perfect sacrifice demanded by our just Father for the sins of the world to who so ever believes. The switch is then cut on, and the spirit draws, and the boldness of belief enables you to believe in your heart and profess with your mouth believing in faith, Jesus is Lord!

                          "because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord
                        and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead,
                                           you will be saved"                     Romans 10:9

                                          The just  live by faith.
                           "For by grace you have been saved through faith.
                       And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
                             not by works, so that no one can boast.    Ephesians 2:8-9

 Then!  
Remember. IF we repented (changed thinking) in our thinking, then our actions show the evidence. VIOLA!!
We work out our own salvation. NOT to be saved. But, because we were saved by God's free gift, Amazing Grace.
Now, we WANT to 'do the right things', and find pleasure in pleasing the Father.

And we will screw up over and over. But God's grace is sufficient, and conviction to do better comes. (for true believers)
It doesn't happen over night as Paul pointed out in scriptures.
 

56 minutes ago, Cyoder said:

If all we need is faith, does it matter?  Can we just live in sin, without repent, have faith and be good to go?  This doesn't sound right to me at all. 

Yes/NO.

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus.      Romans 8:1
The Father chastizes those whom he loves. (Getting a whooping from God means you have sinned) (also means you are his child)
If someone never left living in sin I would question their faith.
A born from above child will desire to please the father though falling down over and over. We all sin. But there should be growth.
God says we all still sin. He knows we are weak. But we grow (Born again believers, not wanna be's)

                 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

All our sins have been forgiven, past present future. But we still sin, and Jesus is our advocate with the Father.
I confess my sins whenever I sin immediately. I make no excuses, the devil or nobody else caused me to sin.
I confess quickly because God has made a way to agree with him my understand of not measuring up to his mark, his high standard. This confessing, agreeing, programs my mind to know the right way verses the wrong way. Not being just casual.
When I confess I'm agreeing with him my missing his mark and restoring fellowship.
I'm thinking, Yes God, I missed your mark, thank you for your forgiveness, and cleansing me, again.

I ain't what I wanna be, but I'm getting better than I used to be.....   ....I'm still growing. In God's Grace, and his mercy.

God does not leave nor forsake his own children when they disobey. If/when needed, he chastizes them.
Because He loves us so much. Positionaly we cannot lose salvation.
Our fellowship may be harmed by our disobedience to our father from our own view. But God does not change his love for us.

Thanks Cyoder...hope something here may help.

 

 

 

 

[Cyoder]

Your answer makes so much sense.

21 minutes ago, Sower said:

If someone never left living in sin I would question their faith.

I had this thought pondering my own question.  Since I started this journey, I went from doing things to "be a good person" to doing things just because I'm drawn to.  I just don't want to disappoint God.  I want to please him.  The more I learn, the more I really just want to follow the rules as much as possible.  Some things I didn't even know were sinful until I learned, like gossip for example.  Just repeating conversations to other people when there is no need. Once I understood that, I thought about it and realized I always had a little bit of a bad feeling about that and I wasn't exactly sure why.  

With my limited understanding, I was thinking forgiveness was all about intention.  So, if for example if someone was earnestly trying to quit drugs and failed 1000 times, that would be forgiven.  If they didn't care, and just continued to do drugs that would not be forgiven.  In reality the first person would have faith.  Feeling bad, trying to please God but failing.  The second would most likely not have faith, even if they might have thought they did.

Thank you for taking the time to explain.

Edited September 2, 2024 by Cyoder
deleted word

[Bruce_Leiter]

Brother in Christ, Paul makes it really clear in Romans 3 and Ephesians 2 that it's only by faith that we are saved, whereas James says in chapter two of his book that faith without works is dead. They SEEM to contradict each other. But they don't really. Why?

Paul and James agree with each other that only faith can save us. The difference is that they define the word "faith" differently.

Paul, as a converted Pharisee, is fighting the Judaizers, who required that people follow the laws of the Old Testament like circumcision and all the Sabbath regulations and then become a Christian. He denies that any of such actions qualify us for entering heaven. For him, faith is a personal trust in the Triune God through Jesus' death and resurrection. With that faith, our lives change because of the resurrection that causes our new birth. Therefore, good works will result.

James defines faith as head-knowledge that merely acknowledges Jesus death and resurrection without a genuine commitment, trust, and reliance on Jesus as our way to heaven. 

Read and study Ephesians 2:1-10 for Paul's (God's) clear teaching on the subject. 

 

  

 

[Sower]

16 minutes ago, Cyoder said:

So, if for example if someone was earnestly trying to quit drugs and failed 1000 times, that would be forgiven.

Yes, that would be forgiven as a believer. And so would any/every other sin. Sin is sin, little or big.
I don't know about 1000 times, but I tried to quit smoking when I came under conviction I was not being a good steward of my health.
I never quit. But I do not smoke any more now for over a decade. I was delivered. By a faithful believer praying over me.
Just like that, I was delivered. By God. As long as I 'believed' it was a sin to smoke, it was a sin.

Anything done without faith is sin according to the bible. I did not have what it took to quit.
During the time I was under great conviction to quit, and couldn't quit, I realized that so many christians also were weak like me.
This caused me to be more forgiving in my walk, and less judgemental of their own obvious sinful habits (like I was).
It gave me perspective, we are all in need of deliverance of so much. When I am able to cease certain sins, dozens more crop up, so many I hadn't even realized about.

I became more sensitive to sin. I believe this is why God's timing for my deliverance was delayed. To show me reality.
Our heart is deceitfully wicked and who can know it....   I realized I was in my heart the 'chiefest' of sinners.

As we all are at some point, the more we try to do "the right thing" the more we realize we can't.   Ahh, but.
IN Christ we CAN do all things, not I but Christ...   There lies our hope. And his word, he will never leave nor forsake us, his children whom he loves so much.   

Thanks Cyoder, and keep on keeping on, running that race..

[Marathoner]

5 minutes ago, Sower said:

Yes, that would be forgiven as a believer. And so would any/every other sin. Sin is sin, little or big.
I don't know about 1000 times, but I tried to quit smoking when I came under conviction I was not being a good steward of my health.
I never quit. But I do not smoke any more now for over a decade. I was delivered. By a faithful believer praying over me.
Just like that, I was delivered. By God. As long as I 'believed' it was a sin to smoke, it was a sin.

Anything done without faith is sin according to the bible. I did not have what it took to quit.
During the time I was under great conviction to quit, and couldn't quit, I realized that so many christians also were weak like me.
This caused me to be more forgiving in my walk, and less judgemental of their own obvious sinful habits (like I was).
It gave me perspective, we are all in need of deliverance of so much. When I am able to cease certain sins, dozens more crop up, so many I hadn't even realized about.

I became more sensitive to sin. I believe this is why God's timing for my deliverance was delayed. To show me reality.
Our heart is deceitfully wicked and who can know it....   I realized I was in my heart the 'chiefest' of sinners.

As we all are at some point, the more we try to do "the right thing" the more we realize we can't.   Ahh, but.
IN Christ we CAN do all things, not I but Christ...   There lies our hope. And his word, he will never leave nor forsake us, his children whom he loves so much.   

Thanks Cyoder, and keep on keeping on, running that race..

Brother, I understand. I smoked for years and thought nothing of it, nor did the Lord address this. Yet there came a time when stopping was on my mind and in my heart, and so I asked the Lord His will. What did He say?

He would deliver me from that addiction so I could be free of it. He would tell me when to throw those things out.

He did just that a few months later. I got rid of everything associated with that addiction (packs and lighters tossed into a dumpster) and prepared myself for withdrawals... but it never arrived. He delivered me from it, and I thank for Him for His goodness and mercy always. 

Something else I'm grateful for is the line of work He placed me in, serving the needy and the homeless as I myself once was. I'm faced with trials that reveal my need to be instructed by the Lord because until our time on this earth is finished, we never "arrive." We only arrive after we cross the finish line!

[other one]

4 hours ago, Cyoder said:

I see so many say all we need is Faith in Jesus to be saved.

What does that actually mean?   Romans tells us that we must believe God raised him from the Dead and we have to confess with our mouth that Jesus is our Lord.   When we place ourselves under His Lordship, we place our future in his hands and have the faith he will keep us with him after this particular time period is over.

Faith.......   faith of what?   I think that is what the problem comes down to.   Faith in what....    That Jesus is who he says he is, or that we are his.

[Neighbor]

5 hours ago, Cyoder said:

like a qoute I read, even satan believes in Jesus and I know he won't be in heaven. 

Hi, Enjoy the journey through the Bible! 

 A  little something from James 2 might add to  and aid in resolving the intrigue "Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?  Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?"....

Justified? 

As you go along in your reading you might find it useful to get a grasp of three words and their use/meaning  within the context of the bible. They are Rightousness, Justification, and Sanctification. It will take some time but gathering in the differences will be most helpful as you read.

May God bless.

[Cyoder]

1 hour ago, other one said:

What does that actually mean?   Romans tells us that we must believe God raised him from the Dead and we have to confess with our mouth that Jesus is our Lord.   When we place ourselves under His Lordship, we place our future in his hands and have the faith he will keep us with him after this particular time period is over.

Faith.......   faith of what?   I think that is what the problem comes down to.   Faith in what....    That Jesus is who he says he is, or that we are his.

I still wonder do I believe.  I know. Do I believe? The Apostles didn't truly believe until they saw Jesus rise. Even John the Baptist had his doubts.  We have to believe with only God's word from 2,000 years ago.

The more I learn, the more I research, all I find is truth. Also to love with all my heart. I love my children, my wife. I know that feeling of love. How do we feel that for Jesus? I hope for that. I get very emotional thinking about Jesus suffering for me and all the rest of us sinners.  I try to follow his word and I fear God. That's the best I can do for now.

[other one]

3 minutes ago, Cyoder said:

I still wonder do I believe.  I know. Do I believe? The Apostles didn't truly believe until they saw Jesus rise. Even John the Baptist had his doubts.  We have to believe with only God's word from 2,000 years ago.

The more I learn, the more I research, all I find is truth. Also to love with all my heart. I love my children, my wife. I know that feeling of love. How do we feel that for Jesus? I hope for that. I get very emotional thinking about Jesus suffering for me and all the rest of us sinners.  I try to follow his word and I fear God. That's the best I can do for now.

Once you do really faithfully declare Jesus as your Lord and thus start living as he has told us to do, the Holy Spirit will interface with you, and you can not just believe, but know.  The faith that everyone speaks about is our trust in him for eternal salvation.

Declaring Jesus as your Lord can either start the process of salvation, or condemn one to hell as a liar.