One comment on Genesis 6:1-4--not demons or angels.

[BornAgain490]

1 minute ago, Jayne said:

Well, you did go there.

Genesis 6 says "sons of God".  Read the book of Job where this means angels, including the devil.

Does "sons of God" in Job mean angels?  

Job was written early, probably before Abraham.  

Does the book of Job say that God was in heaven when the sons of God presented themselves before God?  No. It's an assumption.

We can just as easily assume that these are men presenting themselves before God in the same way Job did in Job 1:5, and as we do even to this day: we come before God and pray to Him and worship Him in spirit and in truth. 

Job knew enough to present himself before God with burnt offerings continually for the supposed sins of his children.  

We, sons and daughters of God, present ourselves before God today when we bow down, get on our knees and pray to Him.  

Satan is a fallen angel and is not referred to as a son of God. 

[Jayne]

57 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

Does "sons of God" in Job mean angels?  

Job was written early, probably before Abraham.  

Does the book of Job say that God was in heaven when the sons of God presented themselves before God?  No. It's an assumption.

We can just as easily assume that these are men presenting themselves before God in the same way Job did in Job 1:5, and as we do even to this day: we come before God and pray to Him and worship Him in spirit and in truth. 

Job knew enough to present himself before God with burnt offerings continually for the supposed sins of his children.  

We, sons and daughters of God, present ourselves before God today when we bow down, get on our knees and pray to Him.  

Satan is a fallen angel and is not referred to as a son of God. 

I know that Job was written very early.  I've taught the Bible for many years.

I'm not going to debate you on this.  I'll just ask where do YOU think God was when these sons of God came "before Him".

I'm out.

[BornAgain490]

28 minutes ago, Jayne said:

I know that Job was written very early.  I've taught the Bible for many years.

I'm not going to debate you on this.  I'll just ask where do YOU think God was when these sons of God came "before Him".

I'm out.

Since God is omnipresent, it could be that God was present in spirit in the midst of the assembly of  faithful sons of God who presented themselves before Him.

Or, just as the children of Israel did when they presented themselves before Him when they assembled in the wilderness in the presence of God's tabernacle. 

Or, just like we do today when we present ourselves before Him when we assemble, worshipping Him in spirit and in truth.  

Or, since this is God's book of poetry, perhaps God may be speaking allegorically to Job, referring to every faithful saint, from every generation to the end of the age, that rejoiced at God's omnipotence, whom God foreknew from before the time He created.  Who knows the mind of God? 

I just can't reconcile the argument that sons of God in Job 1:6, 2:1, 38:7, and Genesis 6:2 and 6:4 are angels, when God tell us in Hebrews 1:5 that He never, ever, called any of the angels His son, and refers to His saints as "sons of God" six times in the NT. 

God is not the author of confusion. 

 

[Jayne]

10 hours ago, BornAgain490 said:

Since God is omnipresent, it could be that God was present in spirit in the midst of the assembly of  faithful sons of God who presented themselves before Him.

Or, just as the children of Israel did when they presented themselves before Him when they assembled in the wilderness in the presence of God's tabernacle. 

Or, just like we do today when we present ourselves before Him when we assemble, worshipping Him in spirit and in truth.  

Or, since this is God's book of poetry, perhaps God may be speaking allegorically to Job, referring to every faithful saint, from every generation to the end of the age, that rejoiced at God's omnipotence, whom God foreknew from before the time He created.  Who knows the mind of God? 

I just can't reconcile the argument that sons of God in Job 1:6, 2:1, 38:7, and Genesis 6:2 and 6:4 are angels, when God tell us in Hebrews 1:5 that He never, ever, called any of the angels His son, and refers to His saints as "sons of God" six times in the NT. 

God is not the author of confusion. 

 

Hebrews 1:5?  Oops.  There is a difference between "sons" of God and "Son" of God.

I'm 63 years old and have been studying and teaching the Bible for a long time.  I'm not perfect.  But I have never heard a pastor, a commentator, a teacher, or anyone say that the book of Job was "just" an allegory.

I believe the book of Job is very real.  Job was real, the devil was real, the sons of God were real, his friends were real, the deaths of his children were real, .... it was all real.

This does not affect people's salvation.  Again, I'm out.

 

[BornAgain490]

12 minutes ago, Jayne said:

Hebrews 1:5?  Oops.  There is a difference between "sons" of God and "Son" of God.

I'm 63 years old and have been studying and teaching the Bible for a long time.  I'm not perfect.  But I have never heard a pastor, a commentator, a teacher, or anyone say that the book of Job was "just" an allegory.

I believe the book of Job is very real.  Job was real, the devil was real, the sons of God were real, his friends were real, the deaths of his children were real, .... it was all real.

This does not affect people's salvation.  Again, I'm out.

 

I never said Job was not a true historical writing, only that by it and through it God spoke in a poetic and allegorical way.  A teacher of God's word would know this. Out. 

Edited September 15, 2024 by BornAgain490

[BornAgain490]

15 minutes ago, Jayne said:

Hebrews 1:5?  Oops.  There is a difference between "sons" of God and "Son" of God.

I'm 63 years old and have been studying and teaching the Bible for a long time.  I'm not perfect.  But I have never heard a pastor, a commentator, a teacher, or anyone say that the book of Job was "just" an allegory.

I believe the book of Job is very real.  Job was real, the devil was real, the sons of God were real, his friends were real, the deaths of his children were real, .... it was all real.

This does not affect people's salvation.  Again, I'm out.

 

Also, as a "teacher" you should know that the Hebrew and Greek manuscripts do not make an uppercase - lower case distinction in names or titles. That's an English grammar thing. 

[other one]

13 hours ago, BornAgain490 said:

Where in the Bible does it say all angels are male?

Do you understand what the word Probably means.    The Bible says they do not have wives or have children in heaven.  Doesn't say they don't on earth in that particular scripture, but it is saying so in Genesis Chapter six.

To be a son of God, one has to be directly made by God himself.   Adam, Eve and Jesus are the only three flesh humans that are sons/daughters of God.   We are sons of God when we are born spiritually, when we allow Jesus to be our Lord and have the Holy Spirit indwelling us.

[BornAgain490]

42 minutes ago, other one said:

Do you understand what the word Probably means.    The Bible says they do not have wives or have children in heaven.  Doesn't say they don't on earth in that particular scripture, but it is saying so in Genesis Chapter six.

To be a son of God, one has to be directly made by God himself.   Adam, Eve and Jesus are the only three flesh humans that are sons/daughters of God.   We are sons of God when we are born spiritually, when we allow Jesus to be our Lord and have the Holy Spirit indwelling us.

God never called angels "son".  See, Hebrews. 

[other one]

5 hours ago, BornAgain490 said:

God never called angels "son".  See, Hebrews. 

See Job

 

[BornAgain490]

1 hour ago, other one said:

See Job

 

In Job, sons of God are faithful righteous men on earth, not angels.