Explaining the the Parenthetical Citation chapters in the Book of Revelation The Chronological Order of the book of Revelation

[JoeCanada]

11 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Who is going to be around for the 70th week? Not the Church right? But the Wicked

Ah yes ... the Wicked.

              "For the wicked is reserved for the day of calamity,

                       They will be led forth at the day of fury" ............. Job 21:30

             

           "The wicked, in the haughtiness of his countenance, does not seek Him,

                        All his thoughts are "There is no God" .................Psa 10:4

             

                      "Upon the wicked He will rain snares,

       Fire and brimstone and burning wind will be the portion of their cup.... Psa 11:6

 

So, according to you, after the church has been secretly raptured, all those left behind, which are the Wicked, will somehow think to find a Christian chat forum, and from the many forums that are online, will perhaps stumble upon Worthy Ministries and find the (teachings) of Revman..... scroll thru them all and try to make sense of his opinions? ..... provided that there are still Christian sites online given that free speech is being taken away from us?

Yup .... make perfect sense ... totally logical even.

11 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

why would God write a Letter to them who are going to be NOVICES at understanding the bible, especially books like Daniel, Ezekiel and Revelation

God did not write a letter to NOVICES!

God wrote a letter and sent it to His BOND SERVANTS.... THE CHURCH!

They, the church,  are repeatedly told:

"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches"

Why don't pre-tribbers HEAR what the Spirit is saying to the churches Revman?

With the wave of a hand, pre-trib refuses to listen to what the Spirit says to the churches, and dismisses the letters to the churches as either being historic.... or church ages. 

Without any basis in Scripture, these views float on the opinions of men. The seven
church ages are totally arbitrary. All seven church types existed in the 1st century,
have existed for the past two thousand years, and exist currently. Was there ever
a time when one "type" of church was dominant? No!.............This is illogical and
unbiblical!

[Revelation Man]

47 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

So, according to you, after the church has been secretly raptured, all those left behind, which are the Wicked, will somehow think to find a Christian chat forum, and from the many forums that are online, will perhaps stumble upon Worthy Ministries and find the (teachings) of Revman..... scroll thru them all and try to make sense of his opinions? ..... provided that there are still Christian sites online given that free speech is being taken away from us?

Yup .... make perfect sense ... totally logical even.

For starters, you are being a wee bit facetious on many fronts here, and I will point that out as I go through the texts. 

1.) the Secret Rapture is just in your mind brother, its not given unto the Jews, who will be a part of the Kingdom Age, but some Jews like Paul & Peter will be a part of the Bride of Christ, and Paul was told about this MYSTERY, which means "Secret" but not because it happens in secret as you facetiously imply,  but rather because it was a Mystery unto Israel and the Jewish peoples. This Rapture will happen not by people disappearing, but by half the Bride "DYING ALL AT ONCE" which thus makes the 5 out of 10 Virgins left = the ONE TAKEN & ONE LEFT passage, ever notice both are 50% ratios ? A proper reading of 1 Cor. 15:42-52 proves that we are CHANGED (we shed our body) and go to be with the Lord just as those raised from the dead, WITHOUT CORRUPTION or Sin Flesh, as Spirit Men, verse 44 clearly says the Dead in Christ are raised as Spirit Men, then vs. 50 says Flesh and blood can not enter Heaven, therefore we must be CHANGED !!

2.) The Wicked in a lot of cases, or those 2 Billion fake Christians or loved ones who would not listen before, will now see the chaos we spoke about coming, they do not have to get on Worthy, it can be one of thousands of sites, then can read The Late Great Planet Earth" they might read the Left Behind Series which I know nothing about other than the name, the m ight read the bible and God may show them or the Two-witnesses who preached to the Jews to get them to repent might be seen on WORLD-WIDE TV praying down each plagues, which they do, or they might hear the Angel of Rev. 14:6 preaching the Gospel unto the whole world. But what they can do is read many millions of us who spoke about the Pre 70th Week Rapture and understand, THESE GUYS WERE 100% RIGHT, while they then can read you guys stuff and know THESE GUYS WERE 100% WRONG. And no one stated it had to be Wicked men, most of them will remain that way, but those 5 of 10 Brides who expected to be Raptured will gave to REVALUATE themselves. And some who had kin who were Raptured will now remember things they were told, everyone knows most of the Wicked will remain wicked. The ones we are talking about  even if it was only 10, remains to be won after the Rapture, and when they see you were in  error, they are not going to read your stuff, or lets just say YOUR DOGMA & THESIS on everything will no longer be an accepted thesis. These people, whether its 10 or million or a billion will need guidance. The Anti-Christ only rules over the E.U. and the Mediterranean Sea Region. Not the whole world.

So, if you were left, lets face it some who think they are going will be left, you would then rush over to Worthy, dg my stuff up, and read it all very fast............ Now this could be any number of people who reads my stuff, just using you as an example, because we know half the Church will not make the Marriage Supper in heaven. Amen.

1 hour ago, JoeCanada said:

God did not write a letter to NOVICES!

 

THOSE IN THE TRIBULATION WHO MISSED THE Rapture are NOT Christians right? Thus if God wrote it to them they will indeed be Novice Christians. You see everything you see through the error of no pre trib. rapture, then taints the bigger picture you see. Of course with a pre 70th week rapture anyone who comes to Christ during the 70th week will be NOVICE Christians at best. Thus, God dis not write these books unto them per se, but unto His Faithful Church on earth for the last 2000 years to unravel it, and so we could decipher the codes and thus TEACH IT to the masses, many of whom will be seeking answers after the Pre Trib. Rapture has come to pass and the 70th week is upon them.

1 hour ago, JoeCanada said:

God wrote a letter and sent it to His BOND SERVANTS.... THE CHURCH!

 

Why try to use words like BOND SERVANT , its too funny to see people stretch anything to make a point, I used to see people swapping what bible they used to make their points look legit. Lets be real, we are the Body of Christ, Jesus is the head, we are Harvesting Souls for God, our job is to win people unto the Lord. God wrote the book of Revelation for us to tell us THE ENDING of this Age of Satan/Man under Satan (Babylon). Therefore we can relay this message to all people, and we in THIS GENERATION, have a duty to leave detailed understandings on this book of Revelation because the 70th week will happen in my lifetime and I am 60 years old. Brother far too often you miss the forest for the trees. Points do not matter, God's truths is all that matters.

1 hour ago, JoeCanada said:

They, the church,  are repeatedly told:

"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches"

Why don't pre-tribbers HEAR what the Spirit is saying to the churches Revman?

With the wave of a hand, pre-trib refuses to listen to what the Spirit says to the churches, and dismisses the letters to the churches as either being historic.... or church ages. 

Without any basis in Scripture, these views float on the opinions of men. The seven
church ages are totally arbitrary. All seven church types existed in the 1st century,
have existed for the past two thousand years, and exist currently. Was there ever
a time when one "type" of church was dominant? No!.............This is illogical and
unbiblical!

The 7 Churches were Church TYPES throughout the Ages, the number 7 = Divine Completion. We hear The Spirit, Pau talks about the Pre Trib. Rapture (DEPARTURE in 2 Thess. 2) and in other places, and the Holy Spirit via TIMING TELLS shows us over and over that the Rapture can only be pre 70th week, you just can't dig it our brother or your points/take aways are ALL IMPORTANT unto you. 

 

We are correct, that is all that matters to me tbh. 

[TCC]

5 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Ah yes ... the Wicked.

              "For the wicked is reserved for the day of calamity,

                       They will be led forth at the day of fury" ............. Job 21:30

             

           "The wicked, in the haughtiness of his countenance, does not seek Him,

                        All his thoughts are "There is no God" .................Psa 10:4

             

                      "Upon the wicked He will rain snares,

       Fire and brimstone and burning wind will be the portion of their cup.... Psa 11:6

 

So, according to you, after the church has been secretly raptured, all those left behind, which are the Wicked, will somehow think to find a Christian chat forum, and from the many forums that are online, will perhaps stumble upon Worthy Ministries and find the (teachings) of Revman..... scroll thru them all and try to make sense of his opinions? ..... provided that there are still Christian sites online given that free speech is being taken away from us?

Yup .... make perfect sense ... totally logical even.

God did not write a letter to NOVICES!

God wrote a letter and sent it to His BOND SERVANTS.... THE CHURCH!

They, the church,  are repeatedly told:

"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches"

Why don't pre-tribbers HEAR what the Spirit is saying to the churches Revman?

With the wave of a hand, pre-trib refuses to listen to what the Spirit says to the churches, and dismisses the letters to the churches as either being historic.... or church ages. 

Without any basis in Scripture, these views float on the opinions of men. The seven
church ages are totally arbitrary. All seven church types existed in the 1st century,
have existed for the past two thousand years, and exist currently. Was there ever
a time when one "type" of church was dominant? No!.............This is illogical and
unbiblical!

Hi Joe. I just noticed this in checking in our forum today. The irony here though is that what you share at the end about the following:

You must always be willing to truly consider evidence that contradicts your beliefs, and admit the possibility that you may be wrong.

Intelligence isn't knowing everything, it's the ability to challenge everything you know.

So yeah, i believe in that totally and often say it myself. Maybe different words. But what i have noticed about these days i have titled the age of Laodicea. And for me its a label i use to describe our age because of what i have noticed over the past 25 years and even more so in the past 7. Doubling down on our convictions is the zeitgeist of our day. It would seem the 2 Tim 3:24 refers to the church too. And that look on her is kina Laodicean-ish to me. So although i see loving churches or members today...in general...beyond the evangelical circus of the Joel Osteens and Kenneth Copelands, the church in biblical orthodoxy does not escape this much either. So yeah, i'd say we are in the Laodicean era for sure for sure...just in what we have romping around as normal in the church today (i'm in America). 

I don't see the same as RevMan, but i am interested to try and understand where he is coming from so as to get a better perspective in how he sees things. My views, you would likely have 10 times more concern with...lol. So there will be differences. As for me as a pretribber, i am open to other views. If pretrib is wrong, the first thing i will think is: "Wow so glad that whole concern of missing it was ridiculous on my part...now we can get to better business" Because i believe there is a chance pretrib might be missing something. So I am open. As a pretribber i went to KJVO church for 2 years that held to 6th seal rapture. Interested, but never really seeing it as valid. What i have done though is spend 15 to 20 hours on the hardest hitting high end debates against my pretrib view so i could be honest with myself. 

What i found is of course along the way we do find pretribbers can use verses that don't belong like that. One of those for me in concern is how the 24 elders have to be resurrected saints. I don't believe they are. But also consider i could be wrong on that. But i don't need them to be to see what the bible teaches about pretrib if that is an accurate takeaway. But i poured my heart into honestly being open to have my views "taken down" by the most aggressive debates i could find. And honestly, after hearing how other views used scripture...i know the pretrib camp does too...but pound for pound (outside of the misuse of scripture on all sides) i would see pretrib as having the most salient biblically accurate stance regardless. 

I believe for example the church is here during the first seal. But i realize too that there are some indicators in how i look at things that a 6th seal view of rapture is not out of the question. Particularly in light of the 144k getting sealed only at the trumpet point. What mitigates away from that for me is I subscribe to the 2 witnesses coming on the scene during the first half of the tribulation. This would likely be a difference in how RevMan is looking at things. But i'm trying to discern the differences with him and consider also where i may be not considering something.

i think there can be honest saints on both pretrib and later or post trib rapture views that will have folks that see it the way they do and are yet open to consider too where they may be wrong. Each of us will have different kinds of constitutions. But because one is sold on their view, to me, does not discredit the view they hold. It does present other potential difficulties to weather some nuances. But i am glad that there are those open to the view of the other on all sides of the aisle. So in that sense i might be a more suitable conversant where we have differences in rapture timing. At least in the sense of removing a bias against bias as a roadblock to more profitable discussion...if that seems to be a sticking point for you as it relates to where the word might be more or less accuratetly considered. Blessings. 

Edited October 5, 2024 by TCC

[JoeCanada]

3 hours ago, TCC said:

Hi Joe. I just noticed this in checking in our forum today. The irony here though is that what you share at the end about the following:

You must always be willing to truly consider evidence that contradicts your beliefs, and admit the possibility that you may be wrong.

Intelligence isn't knowing everything, it's the ability to challenge everything you know.

So yeah, i believe in that totally and often say it myself. Maybe different words. But what i have noticed about these days i have titled the age of Laodicea. And for me its a label i use to describe our age because of what i have noticed over the past 25 years and even more so in the past 7. Doubling down on our convictions is the zeitgeist of our day. It would seem the 2 Tim 3:24 refers to the church too. And that look on her is kina Laodicean-ish to me. So although i see loving churches or members today...in general...beyond the evangelical circus of the Joel Osteens and Kenneth Copelands, the church in biblical orthodoxy does not escape this much either. So yeah, i'd say we are in the Laodicean era for sure for sure...just in what we have romping around as normal in the church today (i'm in America). 

I don't see the same as RevMan, but i am interested to try and understand where he is coming from so as to get a better perspective in how he sees things. My views, you would likely have 10 times more concern with...lol. So there will be differences. As for me as a pretribber, i am open to other views. If pretrib is wrong, the first thing i will think is: "Wow so glad that whole concern of missing it was ridiculous on my part...now we can get to better business" Because i believe there is a chance pretrib might be missing something. So I am open. As a pretribber i went to KJVO church for 2 years that held to 6th seal rapture. Interested, but never really seeing it as valid. What i have done though is spend 15 to 20 hours on the hardest hitting high end debates against my pretrib view so i could be honest with myself. 

What i found is of course along the way we do find pretribbers can use verses that don't belong like that. One of those for me in concern is how the 24 elders have to be resurrected saints. I don't believe they are. But also consider i could be wrong on that. But i don't need them to be to see what the bible teaches about pretrib if that is an accurate takeaway. But i poured my heart into honestly being open to have my views "taken down" by the most aggressive debates i could find. And honestly, after hearing how other views used scripture...i know the pretrib camp does too...but pound for pound (outside of the misuse of scripture on all sides) i would see pretrib as having the most salient biblically accurate stance regardless. 

I believe for example the church is here during the first seal. But i realize too that there are some indicators in how i look at things that a 6th seal view of rapture is not out of the question. Particularly in light of the 144k getting sealed only at the trumpet point. What mitigates away from that for me is I subscribe to the 2 witnesses coming on the scene during the first half of the tribulation. This would likely be a difference in how RevMan is looking at things. But i'm trying to discern the differences with him and consider also where i may be not considering something.

i think there can be honest saints on both pretrib and later or post trib rapture views that will have folks that see it the way they do and are yet open to consider too where they may be wrong. Each of us will have different kinds of constitutions. But because one is sold on their view, to me, does not discredit the view they hold. It does present other potential difficulties to weather some nuances. But i am glad that there are those open to the view of the other on all sides of the aisle. So in that sense i might be a more suitable conversant where we have differences in rapture timing. At least in the sense of removing a bias against bias as a roadblock to more profitable discussion...if that seems to be a sticking point for you as it relates to where the word might be more or less accuratetly considered. Blessings. 

Hi TCC,

Thanks for your response.

Revman and I go back to 2018 when I joined Worthy. We've locked horns many a times. He is stuck on his own interpretation which I see quite a bit. But, as a brother, I love him and his challenges..... although.... hmmm.....

I am, and have always been open to how other people see scripture, especially end times. 

And I get really, umm, sort of "discombobulated".... you know that eerie feeling when something just doesn't seem legit or right.... when people say "Well, God told me this"..... arrrrgh!

And like a Berean, I listen...... but then I'll search Scripture to see if what they say is true.

I have been corrected on my views. And I appreciate that correction. If it's Scriptural, then everything is good.

I am not a pre-tribber. Not at all. Never have been. It just didn't jive with scripture. I believe in a pre-wrath rapture and I see that view as more (reasonably) supported by Scripture. 

A person who says they know more about revelation than anybody else, who says his interpretation is Holy Spirit breathed ..... and yet almost everyone disagrees with his interpretation..... it kinda makes you wonder, doesn't it.

But.... I digress.

 

[JoeCanada]

3 hours ago, TCC said:

So yeah, i'd say we are in the Laodicean era for sure for sure...just in what we have romping around as normal in the church today (i'm in America). 

I don't ascribe to any "church era" per say, but I agree that many churches have gone absolutely bizarre. I wouldn't even call them "church" anymore.

Circus acts .... preachers who don't even believe in Jesus .... transgender preachers ....

Insane!

 

3 hours ago, TCC said:

What mitigates away from that for me is I subscribe to the 2 witnesses coming on the scene during the first half of the tribulation.

Ok... have you considered the possibility that the ministry of the two witnesses overlap the first and second half of the tribulation.

Why does it have to be either one or the other. Just because their ministry is 1260 days.... does that mean that it has to align with either one? Could their 1260 days be anytime during the 70th week?

I think that is a possibility that should be taken into consideration.

3 hours ago, TCC said:

But i am glad that there are those open to the view of the other on all sides of the aisle

Yes.... amen.

[TCC]

4 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

I don't ascribe to any "church era" per say, but I agree that many churches have gone absolutely bizarre. I wouldn't even call them "church" anymore.

Circus acts .... preachers who don't even believe in Jesus .... transgender preachers ....

Insane!

 

Ok... have you considered the possibility that the ministry of the two witnesses overlap the first and second half of the tribulation.

Why does it have to be either one or the other. Just because their ministry is 1260 days.... does that mean that it has to align with either one? Could their 1260 days be anytime during the 70th week?

I think that is a possibility that should be taken into consideration.

Yes.... amen.

Well thanks for sharing that. Its pretty cool to have that level of banter and be friends. I like that. Thanks for letting me know. As for the two witnesses...yes they could overlap but there are a few difficulties i would see with that perspective. 

1. It appears to me that Rev 11 has the 2 witnesses tied to a season where the third temple is in play (even perhaps as it is being constructed. Stopping sacrifices in the middle of the week does not mean the sacrifices have to going on the whole time of the 1st half. But if the two witnesses are tied to a sense of the temple timing (even its beginning perhaps) it would infer likely sacrifices are going on during the entire or lion's share of the 1st half. So 1260 days from a beginning period of the tribulation places the 2 witnesses around midpoint when they die. 

2. The 5th trumpet provides a supernatural power that kills the two witnesses. So the 5th trumpet would seem to occur near the killing of the witnesses if they start near a temple being on the scene with Israel. 

3. The AC rules for 1260 days. The second half. So if the two witnesses are killed by supernatural power associated with trumpet 5, then it would seem they die around or just after the midpoint. 

4. The AC rules for 42 months. How much genuine control can the AC have with 2 witnesses running around? If AC can kill the two witnesses with supernatural power...why would he wait? And how genuine of a rule can he have if the two witnesses are on the scene?

To me it would make more sense for the two witnesses to be the supernatural power in the first half. And the AC to be the supernatural power in the second half. The two witnesses seem to be useful in bringing the 144k about. So there would need to be some kind of time with that. Because the 144k would be ready to be sealed by the first trumpet. It would seem the overlap with the two witnesses would be the time of the trumpets. Where the two witnesses are the superpower. And while Israel awaits her ministry for the bowls (which I would view slated for the entire second half. Because at the inauguration--Rev 15), the AC's mark had already been enforced. Which likely comes on the wings of the 5th trumpet. Perhaps administrated during the 6th trumpet. But it would seem likely the AC would need to get rid of the two witnesses prior to the mark. Because it would not make sense if the two witnesses were doing supernatural acts while the mark is biding released. I suppose it could happen. But 2 Thes 2 implies God's strong delusion as part of the mark period. And the two witnesses would not have need to do their thing while God is employing a strong delusion. It would be kind of counter productive for them to be here at that point. If that makes sense? Blessings. 

Edited October 6, 2024 by TCC

[JoeCanada]

On 10/5/2024 at 9:59 AM, Revelation Man said:

the Secret Rapture is just in your mind brother,

It's pre-trib that holds to a "secret" rapture. They often quote the "Lord comes like a thief in the night" passage to support their "secret rapture" theory. 

Maybe you don't hold to that theory but many pre-tribbers do.

On 10/5/2024 at 9:59 AM, Revelation Man said:

Paul was told about this MYSTERY, which means "Secret" but not because it happens in secret as you facetiously imply

Again.... it's not me. It's the pre-trib camp that holds to the "secret rapture" theory.

On 10/5/2024 at 9:59 AM, Revelation Man said:

THOSE IN THE TRIBULATION WHO MISSED THE Rapture are NOT Christians right?

Wrong!

The church... all those in Christ, will go thru the tribulation.

But .... they will be rescued (raptured) at the end of the sixth seal, right before the WRATH of GOD begins with the trumpet judgments and culminates with the bowl judgments.

Tribulation is not WRATH. Tribulation is testing .... it's weeding out the pew sitters, the Sunday Christians.... the "I asked Jesus into my heart once" people.

On 10/5/2024 at 9:59 AM, Revelation Man said:

Why try to use words like BOND SERVANT , its too funny to see people stretch anything to make a point

Oh I don't know.... maybe it's because God Himself used the term "BOND SERVANTS"

I know you don't like the term ... probably because it makes your interpretation....weak.

On 10/5/2024 at 9:59 AM, Revelation Man said:

The 7 Churches were Church TYPES throughout the Ages

Wrong again.

The seven letters are Jesus' end time instructions to the church which will endure the 70th week of Daniel. 

But you just sluff it off with a wave of your hand, not seeing any need to even try to understand what Jesus is communicating to the church. 

So be it brother. It's not me who you have to answer to.

[JoeCanada]

21 hours ago, TCC said:

It appears to me that Rev 11 has the 2 witnesses tied to a season where the third temple is in play (even perhaps as it is being constructed. Stopping sacrifices in the middle of the week does not mean the sacrifices have to going on the whole time of the 1st half. But if the two witnesses are tied to a sense of the temple timing (even its beginning perhaps) it would infer likely sacrifices are going on during the entire or lion's share of the 1st half. So 1260 days from a beginning period of the tribulation places the 2 witnesses around midpoint when they die.

I don't see the two witnesses ministry in the first half of the 70th week.

In Jesus's Olivet Discourse in Matt 24, He points out the AofD, (and we know from other scriptures that this occurs around the mid-point of the 70th week) standing in the holy place .....  then there will be great tribulation.

So it looks like the antichrist makes his debut around the midpoint and I'm guessing the false prophet will show up then as well. These two are Satan's counterfeit team. The antichrist will assume to be God and the false prophet will perform miracles to persuade people to believe in the AC.

God also has His team on the scene now... the two witnesses. They will perform (out-perform actually) miracles in response to the FP and AC. 

The trumpet judgments come towards the end of the 70th week and we know that the two witnesses are killed by the beast that comes out of the abyss at the 6th trumpet. For this reason alone the two witnesses ministry has to be in the second half of the week.

That's sort of how I see it in scripture. 

[TCC]

12 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

I don't see the two witnesses ministry in the first half of the 70th week.

In Jesus's Olivet Discourse in Matt 24, He points out the AofD, (and we know from other scriptures that this occurs around the mid-point of the 70th week) standing in the holy place .....  then there will be great tribulation.

So it looks like the antichrist makes his debut around the midpoint and I'm guessing the false prophet will show up then as well. These two are Satan's counterfeit team. The antichrist will assume to be God and the false prophet will perform miracles to persuade people to believe in the AC.

God also has His team on the scene now... the two witnesses. They will perform (out-perform actually) miracles in response to the FP and AC. 

The trumpet judgments come towards the end of the 70th week and we know that the two witnesses are killed by the beast that comes out of the abyss at the 6th trumpet. For this reason alone the two witnesses ministry has to be in the second half of the week.

That's sort of how I see it in scripture. 

So you would not see though a conflict with the two witnesses testifying of God during a time that God is sending a strong delusion? What would they be witnessing? That God in the background is good and holy WHILE He deludes most of the world with affirming them in their lack of repentance to see the AC as God? It just seems counterintuitive though to some degree, no perhaps? 

[Revelation Man]

12 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

It's pre-trib that holds to a "secret" rapture. They often quote the "Lord comes like a thief in the night" passage to support their "secret rapture" theory. 

Maybe you don't hold to that theory but many pre-tribbers do.

You don't get what I am saying, if most of the Christians in the world believe in the pre trib. rapture, or last just say half of the 2 billion Christians (which would e 1 billion people) believe in it, then its can be no secret, that is not what the words written mean. It was a Secret to the Jews is what Paul is saying, of course after he REVEALS this MYSTERY (Secret heretofore by God's silence) it therefor ca never again be a secret. You just do nit think things through brother. So, if I reveal a secret mystery unto you and others is it still a secret? Paul's whole point was to say this was never a part of God's outreach to the Jews, because they are going to have a different course manly, except for the few in the Church, they will rule with Christ Jesus during the 1000 year kingdom age.

As per the thief in the night, that is Jesus own words telling us how those who miss the Rapture will indeed be mired in the 70th week troubles. When we see the Thief in the Nigh at the 6th Vial, that is God reminding all those Jesus is about to wipe out at the 7th Vial, God's DOREWARNING, that they paid no mind to. 

12 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Wrong!

The church... all those in Christ, will go thru the tribulation.

But .... they will be rescued (raptured) at the end of the sixth seal, right before the WRATH of GOD begins with the trumpet judgments and culminates with the bowl judgments.

Tribulation is not WRATH. Tribulation is testing .... it's weeding out the pew sitters, the Sunday Christians.... the "I asked Jesus into my heart once" people

The Church/Bride of Christ does not go through the tribulation, when I see someone that offers this up I take nothing you say about eschatology serious. 

And my quote you cut in half...I'll add the other part back in red

Thus if God wrote it to them they will indeed be Novice Christians. 

So, those who missed the Rapture WERE NOT Christians in Jesus' book or they would not have been left. BUT.......those who repent become Christians (Novice Christians) and thus God would not write this book to novice Christians, He wrote it to the Church so we could teach how the wrath of God was nothing to scoff at, how those living in these end times should REPENT, but in your mind we all go through the tribulation, so why should any young person fear and repent if your thesis was correct? Here is what is going to happen, many, many young people will here this, which is not of God, and say, well, since I have to go through the tribulation anyway, I might as well wait n REPENT THEN. But after the rapture, these people will be far too weak to repent, the AC/Satan will torture their loved ones, girl friends/boy friends, moms, dads, children et al. and most will sadly take the Mark of the Beast all because is this untruth. 

The Wrath last 1260 days, the truth is you really do not understand end time eschatology at all, its been my calling of 40 years, you get mixed up by things like a thief in the night being quoted at the 6th Vial. In Zech. 13:1-9 we see an END TIME PROPHECY about the 1/3 repenting, BUT....in the midst of that end time prophecy we see in verses 6-7 talk about Jesus being wounded in the house of his friends and that when the shepard is struck down the herd will scatter. So, why is a prophesy about Jesus placed here? Because its his blood who washes the 1/3. So, 2500 years ago a prophesy was given about the end times AND another prophesy 500 some odd years into the future was also inserted, making tew prophesy much more powerful. 

13 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Oh I don't know.... maybe it's because God Himself used the term "BOND SERVANTS"

I know you don't like the term ... probably because it makes your interpretation....weak.

Try looking up original words, and what they actually mean. Your type thinking is why many people think God approved of slavey, when it as really servitude.  I doubt you have ever spent hours on in depth studies, I spent months on my Daniel 11 & 1 Exegesis. You can't be a part time teacher brother either to it right or let those called tom teach, teach.

13 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Wrong again.

The seven letters are Jesus' end time instructions to the church which will endure the 70th week of Daniel. 

But you just sluff it off with a wave of your hand, not seeing any need to even try to understand what Jesus is communicating to the church. 

You will always be wrong on the Rapture, I wonder why?