What is the charismatic movement?

[NConly]

As Jeff Foxworthy says here your sign

John 14

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

[missmuffet]

27 minutes ago, In the Clouds said:

Sigh... Another debate about how a person praises the Lord.  This is not a salvation issue.  Praise Him inwardly; praise Him outwardly.  As long as you praise Him in Truth and honor it blesses Him and strengthens your relationship.

 

 

No, it is not a salvation issue, you are right. Although it is very important how we see God's Word and the literal truth in the Bible.

[Knotical]

7 minutes ago, NConly said:

As Jeff Foxworthy says here your sign

John 14

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Sorry, but that is a Bill Engval bit, not Jeff Foxworthy.  Jeff does the "You might be a redneck if..."

[NConly]

36 minutes ago, Knotical said:

Sorry, but that is a Bill Engval bit, not Jeff Foxworthy.  Jeff does the "You might be a redneck if..."

I did not say Jeff started it but I watched Jeff on TV once a week for a year and he did a "here your sign" skit with several jokes every week.

[Knotical]

5 minutes ago, NConly said:

I did not say Jeff started it but I watched Jeff on TV once a week for a year and he did a "here your sign" skit with several jokes every week.

No worries.  Just giving credit where credit is due.

[Marathoner]

 

1 hour ago, In the Clouds said:

Sigh... Another debate about how a person praises the Lord.  This is not a salvation issue.  Praise Him inwardly; praise Him outwardly.  As long as you praise Him in Truth and honor it blesses Him and strengthens your relationship.

Don't be troubled, for this is commonplace. Pay it no mind, my friend. Let the scoffers scoff, let the mockers mock, and let the faithful of the Lord rejoice in our Maker.  

[missmuffet]

13 minutes ago, Marathoner said:

 

Don't be troubled, for this is commonplace. Pay it no mind, my friend. Let the scoffers scoff, let the mockers mock, and let the faithful of the Lord rejoice in our Maker.  

And let the truth of God be told.

[enoob57]

John 17:14 (KJV)

[14] I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

[15] I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

[16] They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

[17] Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

[18] As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

[19] And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

God has clearly taught us, in intimacy I might add, what should lead us ... He has also warned us of what was coming after Him in the last of days

Matthew 24:24 (KJV)

[24] For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

[25] Behold, I have told you before.

[26] Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

and those of such when they come before Him

Matthew 7:22 (KJV)

[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

I also do not support the charismatic movement in my walk with God...

[Tristen]

6 hours ago, missmuffet said:

Charismatics hold that the manifestations of the Holy Spirit given to those in the first-century church may still be experienced and practiced today

I'd say this is the most accurate, fair-minded sentence in the posted quote. At the root of the matter, this is what differentiates "Charismatics" from the more traditional cessationist beliefs.

Every Christian ministry has to account for properly balancing the truth God has revealed to them. This also applies to "Charismatics" - who in some (perhaps many) cases overemphasize the importance of supernatural experience over abiding in the Word of God. The tendency of Christians to get things out-of-balance does not, of itself, automatically invalidate the doctrine at-hand.

 

6 hours ago, missmuffet said:

spiritual gifts which supposedly give an individual influence or authority over large numbers of people

I don't agree with this part of the definition. Charismatic simply refers to the belief that the Holy Spirit still distributes supernatural gifts throughout the church - as He did with the early church. The desire to attain "individual influence or authority over large numbers of people" has more to do with the motive of each believer. This corrupt, pejorative motive can be found across all Christian denominations (including cessationist believers). 

 

6 hours ago, missmuffet said:

The prominent gifts among these “charisms” are speaking in tongues and prophesying

The primary passage forming the foundation of Charismatic doctrine is:

1 Corinthians 12:4-11
4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: 8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

Whilst the gift of tongues is included on this list, a focus on the gift of tongues would generally be described as Pentecostal.

 

7 hours ago, missmuffet said:

Most meetings are for praying and spirited singing, dancing, shouting “in the spirit,” and raising hands and arms in prayer

I think the author lacks broad experience with Charismatic churches. 

There is no such thing as a typical Charismatic meeting. The services can be a different as the Ministers running them. 

Most church services (including Charismatic) have a worship element followed by a teaching element. During the worship element, it would be true to suggest a Charismatic tendency towards more "spirited singing, dancing ... and raising hands and arms". However, Charismatic churches with older demographics, or more traditional foundations (etc.) may have more sombre overall worship tone. The author's generalizations (fallacy) are therefore problematic.

Furthermore, informed Charismatics will be aware that "shouting “in the spirit,”" in public is not acceptable (without the gift of Interpretation of tongues being present. See 1 Corinthians 14) - though many churches will permit privately speaking/praying in tongues as a part of worship.

 

7 hours ago, missmuffet said:

Also, anointing the sick with oil is often part of the worship service

Not in my experience. Certainly, prayers for healing are common.

I can't ever remember seeing "anointing oil" at a public church service - though I have seen it in other contexts.

 

7 hours ago, missmuffet said:

These are the primary reasons for the movement’s growth and popularity

This is not a supported statement. 

It does, however, stand to reason that a church offering the possibility of a real encounter with God will be more appealing than the more traditional 'God is watching us from a distance' model.

If I'm an unbeliever who is ill, and I go to church and receive prayer and go home healed - then I certainly have something to think about.

 

7 hours ago, missmuffet said:

While growth and popularity are certainly desirable, they cannot be used as a test for truth

I somewhat agree - though I think the statement is also somewhat specious and vacuous.

I would prima facia expect a church following the leading of Jesus to be successful. However, in some cases, ministry success may also be attributed to factors other than God's leading.

 

8 hours ago, missmuffet said:

The question remains: is the Charismatic movement scriptural? We can best answer that question this way: we know that since the creation of mankind Satan’s insidious master plan has been simply to put a veil between God’s children and God’s inerrant Word. It began in the Garden of Eden when the serpent asked Eve, “Did God really say . . .?” (Genesis 3:1), thereby raising doubt as to the authority and authenticity of what God had said. Ever since that day, he continues to attack the inerrancy and sufficiency of the Bible. Without question, we know that Satan has stepped up the pace of this strategy (1 Peter 5:8).

Where Satan does not succeed in taking the Bible from us, he works hard at taking us from the Bible. One way he can do this is simply to get Christians to focus their attention on the claims of some men and women concerning supernatural experiences. Those who seek after sensational experiences or new words from God have neither time nor interest in searching the Scriptures for God’s truth.

No counter-argument to the "Charismatic movement" is provided by the author. The author rather relies on unsupported Innuendo (fallacy) to insinuate that the "Charismatic movement" might be a satanic strategy to distract Christians from the Bible. 

OK - it also might be a valid revelation of truth (which a relative few may have taken to an unbalanced extreme).

I have attended many Charismatic churches with highly-credentialled, well-studied ministers teaching sincere, eager congregations from the Bible. Their Biblical foundation is at-least as solid as those from cessationist congregations. Yet I've also encountered Charismatic ministers who I'd consider well-intentioned novices - who sometimes get off-course on a range of doctrines.

Unsupported Generalizations (fallacy) are therefore not useful.

 

8 hours ago, missmuffet said:

There is no denying that God performs miracles. Some of what occurs in the Charismatic movement may well be a true work of the Holy Spirit. However, the truth is that the Body of Christ has already been given the all-sufficient, eternal Word of God. Do we need new apostles, new faith healers, or self-styled miracle workers? Or is the greater need to return to the Bible and proclaim the whole counsel of God in the power and love of the Holy Spirit?

"Or"???? - Can we maybe "proclaim the whole counsel of God in the power and love of the Holy Spirit" alongside accompanying supernatural gifts of the Holy Spirit - as did our Lord and His Apostles?

 

[AnOrangeCat]

36 minutes ago, Tristen said:

I think the author lacks broad experience with Charismatic churches. 

There is no such thing as a typical Charismatic meeting. The services can be a different as the Ministers running them. 

Most church services (including Charismatic) have a worship element followed by a teaching element. During the worship element, it would be true to suggest a Charismatic tendency towards more "spirited singing, dancing ... and raising hands and arms". However, Charismatic churches with older demographics, or more traditional foundations (etc.) may have more sombre overall worship tone. The author's generalizations (fallacy) are therefore problematic.

Furthermore, informed Charismatics will be aware that "shouting “in the spirit,”" in public is not acceptable (without the gift of Interpretation of tongues being present. See 1 Corinthians 14) - though many churches will permit privately speaking/praying in tongues as a part of worship.

The Christian element of my family was very much Charismatic leaning and semi-nomadic, so I had the experience of growing up attending many different Charismatic churches. These statements accurately sum up my time there. They were certainly enthusiastic in their worship, but there was definitely a structure to the services that gave them a balanced quality in the end.

1 hour ago, Tristen said:

No counter-argument to the "Charismatic movement" is provided by the author. The author rather relies on unsupported Innuendo (fallacy) to insinuate that the "Charismatic movement" might be a satanic strategy to distract Christians from the Bible. 

OK - it also might be a valid revelation of truth (which a relative few may have taken to an unbalanced extreme).

I took issue with that part of the OP as well. Romans 14 is a chapter of the Bible that has made an impression on me, and thus it often springs to mind in discussions like this. In it Paul instructed believers to refrain from judging each other over disputable matters and cited things like whether or not to eat meat and regarding certain days over others as examples. The worship methods and points of the Bible the Charismatic movement places emphasis on probably fall under that heading. The author would seem to be engaging in just that sort of judgment and is making a quite serious accusation toward a branch of the church as varied as any other.